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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death Smart Deploy
737
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Posted - 2015.09.13 20:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think it would be good to introduce Battle Fatigue.
I played an Acquisition Match last night where I went 33/1; I died to a Sniper towards the end of the match. After the match I realized that even though I was constantly running all over the map like a just drank 15 Redbulls my mercs performance stayed constant the entire match. You would think if a merc is running all over the map getting into constant engagements with the enemy that they would start to get tired; speed, stamina, and even ADS speed would decrease.
I think a Battle Fatigue Meter would be a good addition to this game. It can have a Passive Recovery Rate the same way Armor Repair does.
What are your thoughts? |
Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
1
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Posted - 2015.09.13 20:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Would be an okay idea, but I don't think it would fit with the lore.
We arn't just Mercs, we are clones and nothing but biomass. Our bodies are identical under the armour we wear with only a few features to seperate male and female clones. This is because we use combat/military clones, which is because we are clones made for one purpose: to fight and to die. On top of that, we wear dropsuits that enhance our combat capabilities.
I do not think combat clones would suffer from battle fatigue at all. I do like this idea, but I am concerned about how this will fit lore wise.
Give me my Plasma Flamethrower or give me a cookie!
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death Smart Deploy
738
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Posted - 2015.09.13 20:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jonny D Buelle wrote:Would be an okay idea, but I don't think it would fit with the lore.
We arn't just Mercs, we are clones and nothing but biomass. Our bodies are identical under the armour we wear with only a few features to seperate male and female clones. This is because we use combat/military clones, which are clones made for one purpose: to fight and to die. On top of that, we wear dropsuits that enhance our combat capabilities.
I do not think combat clones would suffer from battle fatigue at all. I do like this idea, but I am concerned about how this will fit lore wise.
I am all about sticking with the lore of the game but the lore of the game needs to stick to biology. I am pretty sure our mercs breath oxygen and without a sufficient supply of oxygen to our mercs muscles lactic acid will build up which will in turn cause fatigue. Dropsuits would only increase how much a merc could handle.
It's all about the O. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.09.13 21:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:Would be an okay idea, but I don't think it would fit with the lore.
We arn't just Mercs, we are clones and nothing but biomass. Our bodies are identical under the armour we wear with only a few features to seperate male and female clones. This is because we use combat/military clones, which are clones made for one purpose: to fight and to die. On top of that, we wear dropsuits that enhance our combat capabilities.
I do not think combat clones would suffer from battle fatigue at all. I do like this idea, but I am concerned about how this will fit lore wise. I am all about sticking with the lore of the game but the lore of the game needs to stick to biology. I am pretty sure our mercs breath oxygen and without a sufficient supply of oxygen to our mercs muscles lactic acid will build up which will in turn cause fatigue. Dropsuits would only increase how much a merc could handle. It's all about the O.
At worst out mercenaries would develop a mental fatigue however each clone body is designed in a manner that goes beyond what we understand of biology. Our cloned bodies have several redundant and supplementary organs which I suspect directed affect the super human levels of stamina our characters possess.
Moreover since Nanites regulate our bodies I suppose they could be seen regulate the process of lactic acid build up or breaking down the acid.
Remember IC we are only running around like this for 20-30 minutes at a time with a super human physiology.
Consider these two things.
1. Every time we die we receive a fresh body at the peak of physical condition only the mental fatigue is constant. 2. Every time you deploy you are in a different clone, your clone is not constant between battles as your employer will want their biomass back.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
717
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Posted - 2015.09.13 22:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pretty much as above; we're genetically enhanced soldiers who get a fresh clone every time we die, so there is no fatigue.
Purifier. First Class.
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death Smart Deploy
738
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Posted - 2015.09.13 22:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Pretty much as above; we're genetically enhanced soldiers who get a fresh clone every time we die, so there is no fatigue.
I am talking about developing fatigue as you play a match without dying. If you die the next time you spawn in your fatigue level will be reset.
Take for example the Acquisition match I just played. When I joined the match was halfway over but I ended up going 12/0 in the match. Even though I was sprinting around like crazy up and down hill and engaging in heavy firefights with the redberries my mercs capabilities never decreased in that match. He was just as perky at the end of the match as he was when he first joined the match even though logically some form of fatigue should have kicked in given how I was playing that match.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.13 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Discussed something akin to this with CCP Falcon once.
We're much more than genetically enhanced soldiers, we're not even human. Combat Clones are designed specifically for the purpose of warfare and nothing else. They have a maximum shelf life of five years and it is in the lore (Eve: Source) that if a Duster is marooned on a planet his body will only last that long before dying 'naturally'.
Our skeletal structure is made up of metal alloys because it is cheaper to build a mass-produced skeleton than try to force biomass into a genetic sub-structure like bone. Our flesh is translucent and will burn under sunlight, blood is regulated and pumped artificially, everything about the clone is designed to be expendable but durable, dealing with the stresses of long-winded combat.
Battle fatigue applies to soldiers who's muscular systems are not synthetic, that build up lactic acid and lock-up under intense use.
A general rule of thumb: If it doesn't pertain to the brain and central nervous system, chances are it is probably synthetic or simply not a part of the Combat Clone's physiology.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death Smart Deploy
738
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Posted - 2015.09.13 22:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Discussed something akin to this with CCP Falcon once.
We're much more than genetically enhanced soldiers, we're not even human. Combat Clones are designed specifically for the purpose of warfare and nothing else. They have a maximum shelf life of five years and it is in the lore (Eve: Source) that if a Duster is marooned on a planet his body will only last that long before dying 'naturally'.
Our skeletal structure is made up of metal alloys because it is cheaper to build a mass-produced skeleton than try to force biomass into a genetic sub-structure like bone. Our flesh is translucent and will burn under sunlight, blood is regulated and pumped artificially, everything about the clone is designed to be expendable but durable, dealing with the stresses of long-winded combat.
Battle fatigue applies to soldiers who's muscular systems are not synthetic, that build up lactic acid and lock-up under intense use.
A general rule of thumb: If it doesn't pertain to the brain and central nervous system, chances are it is probably synthetic or simply not a part of the Combat Clone's physiology.
I see. I'm gonna keep that rule of thumb in mind.
Where can I read up more about the lore of this game? |
Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
1
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Posted - 2015.09.13 23:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Our skeletal structure is made up of metal alloys because it is cheaper to build a mass-produced skeleton than try to force biomass into a genetic sub-structure like bone. Our flesh is translucent and will burn under sunlight, blood is regulated and pumped artificially, everything about the clone is designed to be expendable but durable, dealing with the stresses of long-winded combat.
So what you are saying is that Combat Clones are essentially the demon offspring of Wolverine and a Vampire?!
Give me my Plasma Flamethrower or give me a cookie!
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.13 23:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:
I see. I'm gonna keep that rule of thumb in mind.
Where can I read up more about the lore of this game?
I'd recommend getting Eve: Source, it is a book. You can probably find it on Amazon. You can also read, for free, the dozens of chronicles outlining the New Eden lore in short stories here: http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/
You can join in on the Slack chat channel #Lore and talk it over with us and we'll answer any of your questions. Tweetfleet.slack.com send me an e-mail at '[email protected]' with the subject line: "Slack access" and I'll get you hooked up.
You can tweet ISD Mercury with your questions as well, or just find one of the ISD Mercury guys on the Slack chat.
We're all amped to talk about the lore so don't hesitate =)
You can also glance over my blog. There is a video of a proposal I've sent to CCP to add in 'Lore Based Loading Screens'.
Jonny D Buelle wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Our skeletal structure is made up of metal alloys because it is cheaper to build a mass-produced skeleton than try to force biomass into a genetic sub-structure like bone. Our flesh is translucent and will burn under sunlight, blood is regulated and pumped artificially, everything about the clone is designed to be expendable but durable, dealing with the stresses of long-winded combat.
So what you are saying is that Combat Clones are essentially the demon offspring of Wolverine and a Vampire?!
I dunno about that, but we are something to awe and gawk over, that is for certain =)
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.13 23:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
So I have a question: why do we have female clones at all? Surely the biomass US d to make breasts would be more useful elsewhere, like more musculature. Shouldn't we all be in an androgynous vaguely male shaped clone?
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.13 23:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:So I have a question: why do we have female clones at all? Surely the biomass US d to make breasts would be more useful elsewhere, like more musculature. Shouldn't we all be in an androgynous vaguely male shaped clone?
Gender dysphoria is a big psychological issue. A person's self image is heavily tied up there and the feeling of being "wrong" can and does cause severe mental issues.
It's got a stupid-high suicide rate untreated. The number of people who are mentally flexible enough to not fall heavily one way or another are probably few and far between.
The people who have a purely mental construct self-image that isn't rooted in the physical world and body self-image are probably rare enough to be a psychology fairy tale.
But the real reason?
Some people want to play a female in games. There is no other reason that matters. Whether or not it's an actual woman behind the controller is largely irrelevant.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.09.14 00:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
MMMMMMMM LORE GOODNESS.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.09.14 01:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:Would be an okay idea, but I don't think it would fit with the lore.
We arn't just Mercs, we are clones and nothing but biomass. Our bodies are identical under the armour we wear with only a few features to seperate male and female clones. This is because we use combat/military clones, which are clones made for one purpose: to fight and to die. On top of that, we wear dropsuits that enhance our combat capabilities.
I do not think combat clones would suffer from battle fatigue at all. I do like this idea, but I am concerned about how this will fit lore wise. I am all about sticking with the lore of the game but the lore of the game needs to stick to biology. I am pretty sure our mercs breath oxygen and without a sufficient supply of oxygen to our mercs muscles lactic acid will build up which will in turn cause fatigue. Dropsuits would only increase how much a merc could handle. It's all about the O.
For the record, New Eden is not the sort of place to try to balance game mechanics based on real-world physics, let alone biology. In space, none of the planets actually move. They are stationary. They never orbit. Spaceships seems to move across space like submarines in water. A station standing between you and your target will not block any of your shots. Ships bump into and off each other like bumper cars at a Youth Fair without damaging each other. Asteroids form a horse-shoe shape in a small area and also don't orbit. Planets, moons, ships, and stations are all out of proportions to each other in terms of size.
Not to mention the fact that capsuleers in space use clone bodies as well but are more designed for ship operations than direct ground-based combat and are just as augmented as the clones we use here on the ground. The clones here on the ground use advantaged technology integrated into the suits which connect with our bodies in many way to compensate for any shortcomings. One of those shortcomings is that the combat clone you use on the battlefield breaks down over time. This is because they are not expected to last long anyways when they are being shot at, blown up, and constantly exposed to harsh conditions. The nanites that run through your combat clone's veins try their best to repair cellular damage as long as possible while giving you superhuman abilities.
Did you know that the uplinks themselves constantly exposes you to harsh radiation to your combat clone's body as you pass through one upon respawning? Even the suit you wear is not able to prevent it from affecting your body.
Did you know that the clone body you see standing in your merc quarters is actually the same grade of clone as used by the capsuleers in space but entirely separate from that of the combat clones used on the battlefield? That's your home body which never leaves the merc quarters. You are technically controlling your combat clone on the battlefield via a link through your mind. It is the reason why your local chat remains the same star system even though you consciousness is fighting in a star system 10 jumps away.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.09.14 01:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Summa Militum wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:Would be an okay idea, but I don't think it would fit with the lore.
We arn't just Mercs, we are clones and nothing but biomass. Our bodies are identical under the armour we wear with only a few features to seperate male and female clones. This is because we use combat/military clones, which are clones made for one purpose: to fight and to die. On top of that, we wear dropsuits that enhance our combat capabilities.
I do not think combat clones would suffer from battle fatigue at all. I do like this idea, but I am concerned about how this will fit lore wise. I am all about sticking with the lore of the game but the lore of the game needs to stick to biology. I am pretty sure our mercs breath oxygen and without a sufficient supply of oxygen to our mercs muscles lactic acid will build up which will in turn cause fatigue. Dropsuits would only increase how much a merc could handle. It's all about the O. For the record, New Eden is not the sort of place to try to balance game mechanics based on real-world physics, let alone biology. In space, none of the planets actually move. They are stationary. They never orbit. Spaceships seems to move across space like submarines in water. A station standing between you and your target will not block any of your shots. Ships bump into and off each other like bumper cars at a Youth Fair without damaging each other. Asteroids form a horse-shoe shape in a small area and also don't orbit. Planets, moons, ships, and stations are all out of proportions to each other in terms of size. Not to mention the fact that capsuleers in space use clone bodies as well but are more designed for ship operations than direct ground-based combat and are just as augmented as the clones we use here on the ground. The clones here on the ground use advanced technology integrated into the suits which connect with our bodies in many way to compensate for any shortcomings. One of those shortcomings is that the combat clone you use on the battlefield breaks down over time. This is because they are not expected to last long anyways when they are being shot at, blown up, and constantly exposed to harsh conditions. The nanites that run through your combat clone's veins try their best to repair cellular damage as long as possible while giving you superhuman abilities. Did you know that the uplinks themselves constantly exposes you to harsh radiation to your combat clone's body as you pass through one upon respawning? Even the suit you wear is not able to prevent it from affecting your body. Did you know that the clone body you see standing in your merc quarters is actually the same grade of clone as used by the capsuleers in space but entirely separate from that of the combat clones used on the battlefield? That's your home body which never leaves the merc quarters. You are technically controlling your combat clone on the battlefield via a link through your mind. It is the reason why your local chat remains the same star system even though you consciousness is fighting in a star system 10 jumps away.
Also unlike Capsuleers who can transition between clones across vast tracts of space using quantum entanglement we Dust clones cannot and suffer from a very severe limitation, that being that our implants ranges are limited. Without a CRU or nearby body to receive our consciousnesses we are essentially as mortal as anyone else (Unless CCP states other wise).
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.14 19:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:So I have a question: why do we have female clones at all? Surely the biomass US d to make breasts would be more useful elsewhere, like more musculature. Shouldn't we all be in an androgynous vaguely male shaped clone? Gender dysphoria is a big psychological issue. A person's self image is heavily tied up there and the feeling of being "wrong" can and does cause severe mental issues. It's got a stupid-high suicide rate untreated. The number of people who are mentally flexible enough to not fall heavily one way or another are probably few and far between. The people who have a purely mental construct self-image that isn't rooted in the physical world and body self-image are probably rare enough to be a psychology fairy tale. But the real reason? Some people want to play a female in games. There is no other reason that matters. Whether or not it's an actual woman behind the controller is largely irrelevant. That seems more a real world issue than lore. Is there any lore reason?
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
423
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Posted - 2015.09.14 19:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:So I have a question: why do we have female clones at all? Surely the biomass US d to make breasts would be more useful elsewhere, like more musculature. Shouldn't we all be in an androgynous vaguely male shaped clone? Gender dysphoria is a big psychological issue. A person's self image is heavily tied up there and the feeling of being "wrong" can and does cause severe mental issues. It's got a stupid-high suicide rate untreated. The number of people who are mentally flexible enough to not fall heavily one way or another are probably few and far between. The people who have a purely mental construct self-image that isn't rooted in the physical world and body self-image are probably rare enough to be a psychology fairy tale. But the real reason? Some people want to play a female in games. There is no other reason that matters. Whether or not it's an actual woman behind the controller is largely irrelevant. That seems more a real world issue than lore. Is there any lore reason?
Don't know if its ever been described but at least one trailer represents us as a person either male or female..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt1tTlnqfY
Presumably when the consciousness transfers into the combat clone (the blob of flesh) some semblance of self must be maintained (a bit like old school robo cop needing his human face to look at when the mask is off).
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:So I have a question: why do we have female clones at all? Surely the biomass US d to make breasts would be more useful elsewhere, like more musculature. Shouldn't we all be in an androgynous vaguely male shaped clone? Gender dysphoria is a big psychological issue. A person's self image is heavily tied up there and the feeling of being "wrong" can and does cause severe mental issues. It's got a stupid-high suicide rate untreated. The number of people who are mentally flexible enough to not fall heavily one way or another are probably few and far between. The people who have a purely mental construct self-image that isn't rooted in the physical world and body self-image are probably rare enough to be a psychology fairy tale. But the real reason? Some people want to play a female in games. There is no other reason that matters. Whether or not it's an actual woman behind the controller is largely irrelevant. That seems more a real world issue than lore. Is there any lore reason?
I assume that would be it. All you are doing is redistributing the nanites to ensure the psyche of the soldier that is inhabiting the clone is as comfortable as possible while still retaining combat efficiency at no additional manufacturing cost.
After the 514 incidents I somewhat figure stability of clone soldier is a relatively high priority for those that employ them. No one wants to send in armies of janitors to clear bloody nanite crusted "514's" off of the installations we fight over.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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