DUST Search - Tank Stealing

Clotheshanger Abortion wrote:

Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:

Clotheshanger Abortion wrote:

Galvatrona wrote:

Factional battles and spawning is why I'm writing this message.
This is the third time the same person has killed me at the beginning of battle while I wait for my tank. I spawned the wrong tank at the start and backed out of the spawn area to hop out and call in the proper tank. While I wait for the drop off I started to recall my the 1st tank I was in and this guy kills me from behind, so now I have 2 tanks sitting on the ground and I have been killed by my own team member to boot. The guy steals one of the tanks and runs into battle with my own tank.

All of the previous matches that he's done this in he's gotten my tank close to the end of battle and driven it into the redline somewhere as I have a missing tank at the end of battle. Knowing this I went about to destroy my own tank, tank down and still in the battle. He spawns on the map not in the redline and goes about to call in a new tank and parks it facing our redline to fire at me then ram my tank to death. I fire back and after a few shots and destroying my own tank I get kicked from battle for doing to much friendly damage. Rightly so.
The first 2 times he did this to me like I said I didn't retaliate. But still lost my assets, this is why I retaliated this time.
Something should be done about this tank stealing behaviour, some kind of punishment should be set up.
The other idea that might work is that during factional battles
1 Being beyond the red line turns friendly fire off so that tank stealing would no longer be an issue.
2 There is a thread about tank spawning that says that we should be able to drop in in the tank in our redline from the start menu instead of spawning then calling in, besides don't the assets and clones come from the mcc?
3 making the vehicles actually have a real working squad lock that your squad leader can switch off and on. In the case that your taking 2 squads in and you know every one on the team or for Planetary Conquest you could turn it off. The default squad setting should be locked doors by default for when people want to solo play.
4 a reporting system that checks battle reports and punishes the players committing these offences, after all there are not too many good tankers out there and even fewer people penniless enough to need steal tanks.

I don't know if its revenge that drives him to steal tanks or just to see what others use in them. A third thieft leads me to believe this person is butt hurt and wants to see what I run to ruin his proto tanks while I.m running a lowly basic tank not a militia, C=I class tank.
Either way tank stealing should be punished and not by me destroying my own stuff and getting kicked from battle.
Being killed at the beginning of battle by my own butt hurt teammate who then proceeds to directly steal my assets sucks and is very unsportsman like.
Maybe after reporting it and battle report confirmation his wallet would get deducted and I'd have my assets back in my inventory, Kind of like a payment he didn't agree to after all I didn't agree to give him a free tank?

Lol dont tank.

Yeah, what he said. Why not just join the tryhard nunk heads and just keep spamming boring vanilla infantry FOTM? Stop with the interesting stuff that adds any flavor to the game. Why tank when your team needs that fifth heavy with an HMG or that umpteenth logi repping said heavy? Good lord how do you think your team will win if they don't have you firing on all four scrub cylinders?

You aren't doing jack sh*t sitting in a big metal box (in the redline), during a skirm, and shooting at red CRUs, Depots, and Blasters. You are as big a p*ssy as redline snipers. If you dont like FOTM, dont run it. Make an interesting drop suit fit. Those five heavies and 5 logis are doing more for the team than you are, I guarantee.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.07 15:26:00 - [31] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.07 15:30:00 - [32] - Quote hn617 wrote: Feels like when friendly tanks purposely run over my dropships. I don't drop any ships near blues anymore. When I played the game, I didn't bring in dropships near friendlies. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.07 15:31:00 - [33] - Quote Clotheshanger Abortion wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Clotheshanger Abortion wrote: Galvatrona wrote: Factional battles and spawning is why I'm writing this message. This is the third time the same person has killed me at the beginning of battle while I wait for my tank. I spawned the wrong tank at the start and backed out of the spawn area to hop out and call in the proper tank. While I wait for the drop off I started to recall my the 1st tank I was in and this guy kills me from behind, so now I have 2 tanks sitting on the ground and I have been killed by my own team member to boot. The guy steals one of the tanks and runs into battle with my own tank. All of the previous matches that he's done this in he's gotten my tank close to the end of battle and driven it into the redline somewhere as I have a missing tank at the end of battle. Knowing this I went about to destroy my own tank, tank down and still in the battle. He spawns on the map not in the redline and goes about to call in a new tank and parks it facing our redline to fire at me then ram my tank to death. I fire back and after a few shots and destroying my own tank I get kicked from battle for doing to much friendly damage. Rightly so. The first 2 times he did this to me like I said I didn't retaliate. But still lost my assets, this is why I retaliated this time. Something should be done about this tank stealing behaviour, some kind of punishment should be set up. The other idea that might work is that during factional battles 1 Being beyond the red line turns friendly fire off so that tank stealing would no longer be an issue. 2 There is a thread about tank spawning that says that we should be able to drop in in the tank in our redline from the start menu instead of spawning then calling in, besides don't the assets and clones come from the mcc? 3 making the vehicles actually have a real working squad lock that your squad leader can switch off and on. In the case that your taking 2 squads in and you know every one on the team or for Planetary Conquest you could turn it off. The default squad setting should be locked doors by default for when people want to solo play. 4 a reporting system that checks battle reports and punishes the players committing these offences, after all there are not too many good tankers out there and even fewer people penniless enough to need steal tanks. I don't know if its revenge that drives him to steal tanks or just to see what others use in them. A third thieft leads me to believe this person is butt hurt and wants to see what I run to ruin his proto tanks while I.m running a lowly basic tank not a militia, C=I class tank. Either way tank stealing should be punished and not by me destroying my own stuff and getting kicked from battle. Being killed at the beginning of battle by my own butt hurt teammate who then proceeds to directly steal my assets sucks and is very unsportsman like. Maybe after reporting it and battle report confirmation his wallet would get deducted and I'd have my assets back in my inventory, Kind of like a payment he didn't agree to after all I didn't agree to give him a free tank? Lol dont tank. Yeah, what he said. Why not just join the tryhard nunk heads and just keep spamming boring vanilla infantry FOTM? Stop with the interesting stuff that adds any flavor to the game. Why tank when your team needs that fifth heavy with an HMG or that umpteenth logi repping said heavy? Good lord how do you think your team will win if they don't have you firing on all four scrub cylinders? You aren't doing jack sht sitting in a big metal box (in the redline), during a skirm, and shooting at red CRUs, Depots, and Blasters. You are as big a pssy as redline snipers. If you dont like FOTM, dont run it. Make an interesting drop suit fit. Those five heavies and 5 logis are doing more for the team than you are, I guarantee. Another person saying to stop doing something different and stick with the status quo. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.07 16:01:00 - [34] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

GM Archduke Game Masters C C P Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.09.07 16:15:00 - [35] - Quote The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. GM Archduke CCP Customer Support \| EVE Online \| DUST 514

Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2	Posted - 2015.09.07 16:48:00 - [36] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. Are you saying it's better to post constructive ideas in Features and Ideas than to just post complaint rants in GD? Real CPM Platform
Sylwester Dziewiecki 493	Posted - 2015.09.07 16:59:00 - [37] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. You are funny man ;). G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.07 17:49:00 - [38] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. 9/10 Good troll!
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.09.07 18:24:00 - [39] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. Are you saying it's better to post constructive ideas in Features and Ideas than to just post complaint rants in GD? No, he's saying that spamming might be the key, but i don't believe it's true, i've seen countless post about vehicle locks. The only effect is a 15sec lock for non squad member that is worst than have nothing at all. Regressed to blueberry level.
Dried ShadowBeaver Nos Nothi 93	Posted - 2015.09.07 20:02:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. Touch my beaver tail. Go on. Touch it.

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.09.07 20:12:00 - [41] - Quote Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. Its Spkr. It is not like he is talking to a human being. If Spkr could perhaps manage to be a rational person, I might agree, but come on, there is a reason for the term "Going full Spkr." Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 657	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:17:00 - [42] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. ^^^^ So much of this GF-FA-NF // *LOGi GOD* // Master of Healers // Lord of War Points Badger Rager is my #1 Fan
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:38:00 - [43] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. I don't even use vehicles but this post pissed me off even with the edited part. Like its only been two years people have been asking for this. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:51:00 - [44] - Quote Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:56:00 - [45] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? People didn't vote Breaking to CPM to be professional. They voted him in because he'll turn around without batting an eye and with a sardonic grin on his face tell you to 'shut the **** up and sit down.' Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.09.07 22:57:00 - [46] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? People didn't vote Breaking to CPM to be professional. They voted him in because he'll turn around without batting an eye and with a sardonic grin on his face tell you to 'shut the **** up and sit down.' Ditto "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 625	Posted - 2015.09.07 23:34:00 - [47] - Quote GÇª. There are still canyons and canyons of lessons to learn before players (especially the new and the over-eager players who time and time again insist on playing this game like just the ordinary fps scoot-n-blast games they just left),GÇª understand the now-fundemental differences about playing a EVE-style game. EVE games practically advertise themselves as "a character living out a career". These games are not war-shooters at all. They are invitations for massive amounts of players to socialize/interact with each other while trying to build abilities, assets, wealth, and commerce-through-war. The games endorse and push betrayal, ambush, lies, tricksGÇª. all in a lifetime's work. STEALING is a key part of that socializing/interacting. (I don't play EVE-Online, but sometimes I think the only reason why EVE players don't have their ships stolen--and Dust players do-- is because, LOL, Dust players are allowed to walk around freely near other people's propertyGÇªand EVE players literally can't "walk" beyond the end of the gantry from their own living quarters.) The devs won't patronize us by "addressing this problem", because in their eyes I don't THINK it is viewed as a problem, just another in a long list of "acts of carelessness" committed by repeatedly stubborn or uneducated or forgetful players. I am nowhere near the brightest bulb in this game, nowhere near an adequate marksman, nowhere near a vet-skill tacticianGÇª But I have enough EVE-sense to know how to avoid calling RDVs smack in the midst of blues I don't even know, not to exit my vehicles when random blues are approaching, be ready to react if a fellow blue turns out to have malicious motives in my FW matches, and NOT DROP MY GUARD when playing an Eve game. GÇªOther fps games you can name don't have this issue (or have fought to remove this issue)GÇª because those games aren't EVE. And they don't take place in an EVE player world that's created right down to the Lore with "friends stealing and killing friends". Understanding that in this game there is infiltration, paid-betrayal, paid sabotage of your FW match, impulse-theft and hijacking, and double-crosses in your ISK deals,GÇª and that callous Eve-Dust 514 (offspring of nefarious EVE-Online) has NEVER been primarily about "scouting-n-blasting stuff",GÇª is the first basic tutorial many players need to learnGÇª and unfortunately the last tutorial lesson that will sink into our heads. Hey, MY suggestion for a "fix to this problem", is that the devs put "Strategy Skill Manuals" for sale on the Marketplace. You buy one, because it's just like a Skillbook. It gives you 5% increase in movement/stamina, and it opens a text in your menu that explains WHAT DUST IS REALLY ABOUT, and not what unaware players THINK the game is about. I'm not being sarcastic, my suggestion is serious. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 67	Posted - 2015.09.08 00:38:00 - [48] - Quote I only roll with militia tanks... If somebody wants to TK me and take that into FW battle, good luck to them...
Balts Xryiel Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 13	Posted - 2015.09.08 05:46:00 - [49] - Quote And this is why i spent my point on swarm launchers so i can destroy vehichels with ease -One does not just RE a Heavy-
Sned TheDead Failures inc. 768	Posted - 2015.09.08 07:09:00 - [50] - Quote Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. snorts, and grabs popcorn MUSIC! Sned T. Dead

Genral69 death RAT PATROL INC. 705	Posted - 2015.09.08 09:14:00 - [51] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Dont use what you cant afford to lose. We used to teach the pups that at the orientation level. Valid point , but if I was to go down I'd rather it be by my own accord and not some blue dot driving into a instal https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:01:00 - [52] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. You speak of all this vehicle experience you "had," yet have no idea as to how they actually handled. That told me all I needed to know about your opinion on vehicles. Literally not backed up by anything. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:02:00 - [53] - Quote Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. It's never professional for someone to say "I'm right and you're wrong because my spreadsheets outweigh your PC experience in tanks." PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:03:00 - [54] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Do what I do with people who try to steal my vehicles. Shoot them in the face with a shotgun or bolt pistol. What vehicles? Aw, you're so cute when you try to be clever. Your unprofessionalism is showing. Its Spkr. It is not like he is talking to a human being. If Spkr could perhaps manage to be a rational person, I might agree, but come on, there is a reason for the term "Going full Spkr." Love all these petty insults, yet nobody can actually come up with rebuttals to what I say. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:04:00 - [55] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? People didn't vote Breaking to CPM to be professional. They voted him in because he'll turn around without batting an eye and with a sardonic grin on his face tell you to 'shut the **** up and sit down.' No, they voted in another yes-man. Gotta keep that infantry-only status quo going. If I cared and played anymore, I may have run for CPM. Not like I'd get elected, because who wants a vehicle representative when pilots are such a small (but nevertheless existent) part of the community? PS3 is back in its box.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:34:00 - [56] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? People didn't vote Breaking to CPM to be professional. They voted him in because he'll turn around without batting an eye and with a sardonic grin on his face tell you to 'shut the **** up and sit down.' No, they voted in another yes-man. Gotta keep that infantry-only status quo going. If I cared and played anymore, I may have run for CPM. Not like I'd get elected, because who wants a vehicle representative when pilots are such a small (but nevertheless existent) part of the community? Not sure Breaking fits the general Yes-Man persona.....and lets be honest CPM wouldn't really suit you. You're a rather well known facet of the HAV vs AV debate that is prone to exaggeration and pressing forward a personal bias with little in the way of supporting evidence. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 04:42:00 - [57] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Dried ShadowBeaver wrote: Your unprofessionalism is showing. And? People didn't vote Breaking to CPM to be professional. They voted him in because he'll turn around without batting an eye and with a sardonic grin on his face tell you to 'shut the **** up and sit down.' No, they voted in another yes-man. Gotta keep that infantry-only status quo going. If I cared and played anymore, I may have run for CPM. Not like I'd get elected, because who wants a vehicle representative when pilots are such a small (but nevertheless existent) part of the community? Not sure Breaking fits the general Yes-Man persona.....and lets be honest CPM wouldn't really suit you. You're a rather well known facet of the HAV vs AV debate that is prone to exaggeration and pressing forward a personal bias with little in the way of supporting evidence. Oh yeah, prone to exaggeration. I used to march steadfastly in support of vehicles, because the community was too small. Despite so many pilots getting on here, telling infantry the deal, how to take care of us, etc, infantry still didn't listen and said "well I shouldn't have to do that because reasons." As far as supporting evidence, nobody offered to buy a capture device for me. Besides, gameplay > spreadsheets. PS3 is back in its box.
VikingKong iBUN Ancient Exiles. 532	Posted - 2015.09.09 07:36:00 - [58] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: The best way to tackle this would be to post in Features and Ideas Discussion - a short, to the point post addressing the simple fact that Vehicles could use some sort of locking mechanism. Edit: of course there were many post about this before, all over the Forum, I'm aware of that. But this is how it works. Hahaha haha ha... ha... wait I'm not sure if I should be laughing or crying. I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Commando Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.09.09 12:57:00 - [59] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Not like I'd get elected . You wouldn't have gotten because you not in the " in - crowd " and a part of the " buddy system " , you can't say anything about any of these people without another of their ilk coming to their defense no matter if the person is right or wrong , part of the reason that the CPM is a joke , it's the same contingency being rotated and doing nothing with that office . Very few have actually accomplished something that had some in-game effect . CCP can't even take constructive criticism without banning people so why would they " allow " someone with a conflicting view to be appointed CPM ? Look what happened to Judge , would you really want the same ? It's just a popularity contest anyway and if you check the forums , the popular people just run their mouths and do nothing , talk about ports and ask for in-game features when the game has ran like absolute crap for it's existence , but I forgot .. it's the PS3's fault but games like Defiance has zero problems , but again ... I forgot , no one here plays or likes that game so it's not relevant . It's a joke . Do you want to be a part of that joke ? I play AV and I really can't say that you exaggerate more then most when it comes to issues , at least you actually talk about issues Spkr . You really can't care about the forums and the game at the same time . Regardless look at Rattati 's thread and you see what I mean , how many people highlighted performance issues over their own " want's " and " needs " .?. that thread should have been flooded with people highlighting performance and bug issues but again I forgot , It's the PS3's fault and a port would solve all the problems . What a joke . Many ask for a vehicle lock and still no lock , the best thing they did was add solo HAV's and I love them but these people try to guilt trip those that use them , when I see Gunnies and Maddies just riding around getting popped because their stupid turret users rode around shooting all the ammo out at the sky or the ground and then hop out when that HAV is confronted . That's some good ish right there . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.09 21:02:00 - [60] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: CCP can't even take constructive criticism without banning people so why would they " allow " someone with a conflicting view to be appointed CPM ? Lol. If only you knew how many times we've almost come to blows. Hasn't even been a full month yet and this post is already incredibly wrong. It's probably no coincidence that a bunch of bittervets were elected. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog



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