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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.04 20:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please replace passive equipment that you just drop and leave (nanohives and uplinks) with items that need to be actively used.
Uplink beacons, allowing players to spawn on your own location to replace drop uplinks. Alternatively, require drop uplinks to be activated (similar to remote explosives) with a limited activation time and a cooldown period.
Resupply beams (similar to repair tool in use) to replace nanohives.
Oh, and get rid of the "circle to revive" for injectors, and require the injector to be your active module.
Effective support logistics should be hard.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.05 20:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, to summarise the responses...
1 valid - but fixable - criticism (you can't resupply yourself) 2 mindless ad-hominem attacks (ignored) 1 "it makes it more difficult" (that's the point) 2 "its not as bad as it used to be" (beside the point) 1 complete misunderstanding of the idea (ignored) 1 "its too powerful" (only if implemented badly) + several unrelated ideas
I realise that recent these modules are less passive than they used to be, but that is simply an attempt to improve a mechanic that should be replaced.
Self-resupply can be implemented pretty easily, and done in such a way that the logi has to make a choice between self and remote benefits, and between different benefit types.
Area-of-effect heal is not a playstyle, its just an element of the game. If it is that important to people then create AoE versions of the repair tool, but keep it as an active module.
I get the point about forcing players to use direct support, but in my mind that is a positive, not a negative. Passive modules allow me, as a support logi, to be effectively doing many things at one; I've got my repper on one player, I'm reviving another, while resupplying several more and helping even more respawn.
Believe me, I see the benefits to this, but I don't think those benefits are good for the game. I'd much rather be made to choose one at a time, and then be allowed to do that one thing more effectively.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.07 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Productive Logis don't just slap a beam on someone and follow them, they constantly establish, use, maintain and if need be relocate the support infrastructure their team is relying on to be able to Tactically approach the challenges the DUST battlefield creates and surpass them. This is exactly the kind of thing I want to see. Maybe that's what we have in top tier battles with nanohives and drop uplinks, but it certainly isn't what I see happening.
I mainly see maps spammed with uplinks and hives in a few key areas at the start of the battle, and nothing elsewhere. And once those are gone, basically nothing at all, unless I've dropped it myself.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.08 22:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote: Which is why there's different modes with maybe not different "tiers" specifically but largely different mentalities on the part of the players in those modes. And this spread of mentalities is a product of and testament to the "Open Sandbox" aspect of the game's design basis. Point is, the tools are there. By your own statement of what you'd like to see, the tools are already there. Whether or not , when and where people choose to use them is a different topic entirely. That initial layout you see? Thats people who know how games can be directed at the beginning, that layout is their attempt at establishing that direction. Whether they do or don't maintain it is up to them, and obviously you. Now, if you don't want to spend the game working as a logi then don't. And if they don't either they won't. And you'll have the match you have. Or vice versa, and then you'll have the match you have then. Logistics is work . Different from pewpew work, but still work. End of the day sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it isn't. Case in point-I omnilogi and have for almost a year, all 4 frames fully protoed, all upgrades complete. My number one suit for pubs? A dragonfly. Some matches, yeah I'll hit the field and floss some logi frames but the majority of them no, no way. Theres too much idiocy happening around me. But, its pubs so idrgaf. Even in FW same thing. I'm not going to hide in the redline and if I see a clearly beneficial opportunity to shift a battle logistically I'll use it but more often than not I'm just going to keep my match nice and simple, do my work for a win and move on. I get what you are saying, and I don't want to needlessly nerf anyone's play-style. I just don't think "lazy logi" is a play-style we want to encourage, and passive modules (event after the rebalancing) do encourage it: drop your hives and uplinks and slap your reptool on a heavy, then wait for the WP to roll in.
Anyone who is an active logi, and is properly managing their hives and uplinks to support their team, I applaud you. I don't see many of you on the battlefield though, and I frequently find I'm the only person dropping uplinks after the first couple of minutes of a battle.
And this is before we include the ability of almost every other suit / play-style to drop passive equipment as well.
Also, I don't play PC, and so I don't know the passive equipment dynamics are different there; if they are, could someone explain how?
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.10 21:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Bear in mind I'm the guy who when the CPM survey went out on improving logis one of my first points was to make the frames a Dropsuit Command level 5 unlock, to limit the riffraff. I'm a **** like that. I'm not sure I'd support that, tbh. If someone wants to do proper, active logistics support in a basic suit on their first day in the game, I say "let them". I love the slot rebalancing for that very reason; I don't have to run proto to get 4 equipment slots any more.
Just don't give WP out for no effort.
Also, while I'm at it, I'd love to see "broadcast for ammo", "broadcast for reps" and "broadcast for drop beacon" implemented as well. "Broadcast for revive" was a godsend when it was introduced.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:There's no way a day-one char is doing anything even remotely close to worthwhile logistics. Why not? Why can't a day-one logi provide worthwhile support to a bunch of day-one slayers?
I'm genuinely interested in the answer to this.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 22:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:The passive investments aren't there. Liability>Benefits
Although all things being equal on day-one its not going to make a ton of difference. Once they're out of that Academy tho.... Sorry, I don't follow. What do you mean by "passive investments"?
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.17 21:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Core skills. Ah, OK. But that's only true if the game requires it. A useable logistics starter suit would be all that is needed to solve that.
el OPERATOR wrote:I should also add experential role knowledge, but thats less about applying points into the tree and more about applying time into the game. Isn't that true of all playstyles though? I appreciate that slayers with experience in other FPS can transfer that experience more readily, but learning the ins and outs of Dust, its equipment, maps, etc. takes time no matter what role you play.
Remember, I'm not saying a day 1 logi should be able to effectively support an experienced squad in FW or PC. Just that a day 1 logi should be able to support a bunch of day 1 slayers against another bunch of day 1 slayers, and they can all grow from there.
However, we don't want day 1 lazy logi; to be that day-1 effective logi, you should have to work hard, from day 1.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:You could argue that making a logi only able to use one equipment at a time makes said role more challenging. A logi would then need to decide what's best for the team at every given moment rather than throw, forget, and rep. Dust will always be a unique game; rejecting ideas because they are similar to another game is shortsighted.
As for the OP idea, I like it as long as it's properly implemented. Main reason I like it is because I'm sick of passive uplinks. They are annoying when spammed all over the place, they can be glitched into walls, they yield far too many WP, they promote rooftop camping, they're amarr, etc. Yep, that's what I'm pushing for.
Combined with a "broadcast for uplink/reps/ammo/revive" feature this would, imho, lead to much more dynamic and intelligent logistics play.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1
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Posted - 2015.09.18 21:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Absolutely the game requires it, performance each match requires it. Providing a frame, any frame, that compensates for a lack of investment in any role is the worst idea possible. You're decrying people's failure in performance (providing and maintaining support) but then suggesting that right from them the get-go they NOT be made to learn but instead be given , artificially, a suit that provides performance benefits that character isn't entitled too? Should a "slayer" starter suit be preloaded with weaponry specced at Prof5? Or plated/extended at Complex levels? Core skills are the the actual RPG progressive elements in this game, your individual merc develops those and reaps the benefits with all frames and fits. They're the basis of difference between experienced, seasoned mercs and new ones. Suggesting that starter frames compensate for a lack of core skills is crazy and akin to bootcamp trainees being handed top-end weaponry and equipment day one. It would instill a false sense of capability as well as not provided a learning environment that produces the sort of problem-solving skills sorely needed by logistics players at all levels in all match modes and maps. Whoah, I'm in no way saying that what you think I am.
I'm saying a logi starter fit should allow someone who wants to play logi to do so as well as an assault starter fit allows them to play slayer, that's all.
A day 1 slayer in a starter suit today has a rifle, sidearm, grenade and shields/armour. The same as a full proto slayer with 6 months of in-game skills, just no-where near as good. I support this fully.
You can't say the same currently about a day 1 logi. There is no feasible day 1 logi at the moment. If we made a viable logi starter fit with passive equipment as it is, all those newbie slayers would likely just pick the logi because it has "more stuff". I don't want that any more than you do.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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