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Dear CCP Can we have a chat?

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[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:42:00 - [1] - Quote Edit: dont go all TL:DR on me its just spaced out to make it easier to read You are introducing alot of New players, who have no experience with you as a company, to Dust through your promotions on the internet and through PSN/ playstation home. Give them basic input and response from a dev or CCP community manager at least. Devs cant fix these problems now? No problem, but at least tell us why. Would that be so terribly hard? Give us a light at the end of the tunnel other then the mythical new build that will fix everything. ^ its nice to think that it is 100% true and knowing ccp its not impossible that a lot of stuff will indeed be fixed but hedge your bets hear CCP. People are frustrated atm over these issues and if we get another build that's half as buggy as this one people will rage just like how people raged when Incarna was not the best **** to hit the universe since cake. The community needs something to work with and more importantly someone to work with. Where are the CCP community managers? Give us something beyond the hope that every feature and bug will be fixed by a magical release at the end of June/ early July. Learn from 2011 that does not work out in the company's best interest in the long run and this is a far more ambitious and hyped up undertaking then Incarna was for EVE Online. To be clear I am not raging I am not mad I am a Loyal Eve Player and CCP fan that feels the situation is being handled poorly and i am dearly hoping this feedback will get some sort of attention or response from a Wandering developer or community manager. CCP i understand the need to schedule your updates but its been 3 weeks without even a hotfix and these issue are making the game literally unplayable and thus difficult to meaningfully test. The server issue in particular are a big issue that would seriously benefit from a ccp employees feedback on when the issue might be resolved or simply that it cant be right now and why. Every game I see 1 of the following Infinite vehical respawn People complaining of a hard freeze and needing to reboot. The zombie glitch ( dead but standing upright and unable to respawn) People complaining of freezing at the end of a match I myself have experienced all of these as well and every match i play their is always a glitch a major one. Again to make it clear I am not raging i have done alot of beta testing and i am not at all unaccustomed to such problems. But the lack of developer feed back on the issue is a problem that one would have thought CCP learned in 2011 was foolish.I mean really not even a community manager to comment?not to mention no hotfixs for the really bad stuff. This is a beta it is meant to bug hunt and refine the existing mechanics/content so the developer can improve the title for it eventual release and i think most of us understand what that means. What I am saying is this. If we cant find a community manager somewhere in CCP at least make a sticky and tell the community " hey this is what is going to happen and here is why we cant do it tomorrow" basic feedback and PR management guys come on be smart about this take the experience you have gained as a company in dealing with the eve online community and apply it. "Edit: I felt the Opening comment was poorly placed and would lead to confusion given the point of the post)
[Veteran_Sintel Jenner] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:53:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah, just to put this in perspective: Free game, in beta. You're acting far too entitled given either of those, much less both. Take a break, watch a movie, or just let it go for tonight and see how things are running tomorrow. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure.
[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:57:00 - [3] - Quote -_- man im not worked up over it. Sigh cant give any constructive criticism now days without a " u mad bro? Chill' can you Look im not mad for the 3rd time i think i have said that in this thread I am however concerned and i stated that concern. Nothing more nothing less. *Edit: how did i come of as entitled?? Serious question, because it was not my intent and i would like to know why you infer that from my post. I don't feel any more entitled to anything from CCP or as a eve player. But i think we as a community are all entitled to some basic feedback and i believe that it also in CCPs best interests given the ambitious nature of the project and the hype around it. Any mmo needs good community management especially one bringing together as many varied community's as this one. With eve at least ccp has done well with its community management most of the time =D. But in 2011 they mad a few.. errors in judgement lets call it. And it was not good. I love dust i Love EVE and i love CCP as a company and i want to see the ambitious project that is dust do well and have a strong community like EVE Online does. I'm a long time CCP fan going on 6 years and they are a great company with awesome employees but they have had there moments where they have mad mistakes and i just don't want to see that happen so i voiced my concerns and that's where I am coming from to clear up any misunderstanding of my intent.
[Veteran_Glen Duval] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:11:00 - [4] - Quote I have to agree with the OP on this. It seems to me that CCP didn't do so well making sure that players are reminded that they are here to TEST & REPORT, not play and grind like it's some kind of demo. Unfortunately, even with Devs and GMs posting here, there will still be players wanting to stay ignorant and just play the beta without ever looking at the forums for why the beta is currently glitchy, etc. But then again, this is a good way to weed out the lazy players and keep those who actually do their homework. Eve Online has just over 400,000 subscribers compared to WoW's multi-million players, but it's still holding on even after nine years of pure mayhem. I for one would rather see DUST flourish with an intelligent player base just like Eve did. Not everyone is going to like DUST anyways, so why bother trying to appeal to the willfully-ignorant masses? I wouldn't want that kind of crowd voting for our next Council of Stellar Management.
[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:19:00 - [5] - Quote True that EVE Online has seen consistent growth for the last 9 years and counting =D we all love to see the community grow and prosper and solid communication with the community that is going to be as organized as ours is a important corner stone of that. Its IMHO one of the things that helped EVE Online grow the way it did. That and an awesome game.
[Veteran_Card Drunook] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:40:00 - [6] - Quote I'd like to add a second to the original point that we're lacking in feedback coming our direction from you CCP. I get the impression that you ARE listening to our feedback, but we're not getting much feedback in return. By feedback I don't mean bugfixes or magically solving every problem we find, I mean just letting us know you're not ignoring them. A lot of the people around here (myself included) know enough about you to trust you even when you don't respond, but a lot of people in the beta don't. I do get the impression that there are people you communicate with frequently, particularly EVE players. But for most of us it's rare. Having said that, I know the whole point of the beta is for you to get data and feedback from us, not to us. But keep in mind even with the NDA (which I get the impression a lot of people don't take too seriously, unfortunately) the reputation of the game starts NOW. If you don't reinforce to the people who aren't paying much attention that this IS a work in progress they're going to tell people about problems that will be fixed before the game even launches. I have two possible suggestions for you: 1) Put up a topic that lists all the problems you're working on, you don't have to tell us how far along you are to fixing it, just let us know that you're aware of them. The only thread that comes close to this hasn't been updated in more than a week. 2) Find someone, even if it's just a volunteer you can trust, to make sure that what you've already conveyed to us is spread. All they have to do is keep track of what you've stepped in to clarify, and point people to it. For example, I've already referenced (and I believe linked) this comment a couple times when spawnkilling has come up. Basically find someone to do the same thing, to be the voice that steps in and says "this has already been dealt with, here's the link to where". I know both of those aren't two minute's of effort, but I doubt either of them would require massive amounts of work to setup and would have a huge impact on how everyone sees the beta.
[Veteran_Boss Dirge] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:41:00 - [7] - Quote It's strange because I haven't had a freeze yet.... not even one.
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:48:00 - [8] - Quote Howdy! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18304 If you check out the IRC you will have a far deeper interaction with the playerbase and hear firsthand feedback from some of the devs/GMs about what is/isn't being worked on. Nearly every problem you've complained about is fixed in the next build, and just so you know, the battle server issue is a very recent issue. Sometimes they can't always give direct feedback on the forums, because players sometimes take such posts as immutable law and are unforgiving if things don't pan out that way. (Someone else mentioned something about people being entitled, it ties in with this.) The devs do make posts on occasion when neccessary, but generally players do a good enough job responding and answering people's questions that its not entirely neccessary for CCP to respond to every thread! EDIT: If it's any consolation.. Past updates to dust have been comparable to crucible, in terms of content added and fixed. They're good. They learned well from incarna, and it reflects in dust!
[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:57:00 - [9] - Quote Nova i have heard much the same and i certainly hope your right and others are. But im not so much complaining about Bugs as asking CCP to address the lack of feedback in general from CCP to the community on these issues. Sure i would love to assume CCP will sort it and i have little doubt personally that in time that will happen. But I worry about how people who have never dealt with CCP never played eve or simply don't have much beta testing experience will have there judgment colored by the current situation. I think alot of gamers would agree its often word of mouth that really spreads a game initially especially ones that don't have massive ad campaigns hell look at sins of a solar empire among others =D. But that aside i don't want the impression to be just another grip thread about bug because that's not my main concern at this point at all .How CCP is handling the community in regards to these issues or the lack there of is my concern . And honestly is a concern for all of us.
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 05:41:00 - [10] - Quote As an example, CCP CmdrWang was on IRC about an hour ago giving us a primer on what is to come in the next build and such! It's easier (And better) for them to do these things live because they can actually interact with the players in a more informal, personal level and people can ask them questions or give more direct feedback. To me, that's far better dev feedback than forum posts. I'll make a summary post later about what was discussed, so as not to derail your topic!

[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:17:00 - [11] - Quote No disagreement from me i love the IRC chats but i do think wider interaction with the less technical among our community's members is important. I mean these are the official forums after all =/. Im not saying take away time from development to hold our hand a make us all feel better hear but the feedback from CCP to the community of dust hell from a game developer to its community in general is always important especially for a project like this. We all want to see dust succeed I believe and I think 10-15 minutes to give a simple sticky or a community a response on pressing concerns should be able to fit into someone schedule =/ . Seem every other game someone complains on voice about something or a on any number of our forums many threads about glitches and or feedback.. Its entirely possible that's simply a vocal minority anyone who has been on MMO forums certainly knows that's always possible. That aside what i ask CCP in the OP is simply to bear in mind the consequences in the future and that have occurred in the past of allowing the imaginations of there community to run off on tangents of expectation and hype unchecked and the dangers for there project there in.( in refrence to the coming build) I will be the first to jump for joy mind you when it Fixs everything and the game is in harmony with the universe. And more over the simple fact remains that it would help to instill a sense of confidence in CCP( for those that are just coming to know the company) if they gave some simple Feedback to a lot of these issues. Now to be clear when i say feedback i don't mean the second coming to the gaming gods i mean simply tell the community whats going on, keep the community aware and ensure a strong line of communication between CCP dev teams and the community is maintained. This faltered in eve for a year or so and it had very negative consequences and that was in a well established long running MMO. Issues like that in dust first year would be very problematic. I'm not doomsaying but it is a point worth consideration. Little effort to avoid a potentially very unpleasant problem seems well worth it. For argument sake say this is completely off base and none of this turns out to be a relevant concern. Would it really have been such a waste of time and effort ensuring such an issue was not present? i think not tbh. What was lost? and hour or so of my time a few minutes from those that read it ? =D food for thought
[Veteran_Templar Two] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:55:00 - [12] - Quote I am with Darius. These are the official forums for the beta, CCP could participate here a little more. For instance they could set specific topics they want us to discuss, or make polls.
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 09:24:00 - [13] - Quote TBH, they do an okay job of communicating as it is now. For the most part, there is only one person (To my knowing) who actually gets paid to do forum stuff, but among his duties are also dealing with media, content teams, and developing content himself. So, you can maybe understand why they cannot respond to every other thread, being just a little bit busy. Other GMs help out, here and there but it isn't really 'their job' to do so. Making stickies is almost like making a 'promise' to your players. One of the lessons they took from incarna is that they won't set things in stone if they are not sure or might change it later. You've probably noticed this is almost every dev post/blog since those 'riots'. There's always wiggle room, or some ambiguity there. It's almost easier (and more logical) for them to tell a small group of players (Like those on IRC) "hey guys, we're working on this and it might go like so.." or "We should have X issue fixed or included in the next patch" ....and have them spread the word. This way, if things don't pan out as expected, they don't have hundreds of angry posters quoting some old sticky. That's just my view on it, though.
[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 11:49:00 - [14] - Quote Nova it seems by your responses you feel I'm perhaps attacking the devs in some fashion. I am not attempting to be adversarial and exaggerating it to the point of saying i want them to responds to every little thread is silly. I have stated the points quiet clearly and what they are in reference to. What i have been asking of CCP in this thread and discussing with the rest of you was that it would be in the best interests of the community if CCP would directly address the serious issues currently exist rather then remaining distant. I understand how busy they are Nova but again as i said before 10 minute post to address some concerns periodically or simply to just communicate with the community should not be a terribly hard thing for CCP to do. I know and you know they are working their ass off to fix them and develop the game my point however is that most of the beta testers i have come in to contact with seem unaware that these issues are being addressed. If it where simply a matter of my own contentment there would be no point for this thread. I play EVE. I have known more about the Dust since 2009 then most of its current participants probably do. Excluding fanfest attendees of course =D. Nova Knife wrote: Making stickies is almost like making a 'promise' to your players. One of the lessons they took from incarna is that they won't set things in stone if they are not sure or might change it later. You've probably noticed this is almost every dev post/blog since those 'riots'. There's always wiggle room, or some ambiguity there. It's almost easier (and more logical) for them to tell a small group of players (Like those on IRC) "hey guys, we're working on this and it might go like so.." or "We should have X issue fixed or included in the next patch" ....and have them spread the word. This way, if things don't pan out as expected, they don't have hundreds of angry posters quoting some old sticky. Nova there is a very simple way to avoid this problem entirely. The old saying don't make promises you cant keep. That said, it does not mean don't speak at all. Their is a great difference between making a commitment to your consumer in (this case the players) and discussing the current state and future of a product. These are basic concepts and CCP lately as far as dust goes seem to be hiding at the extreme points of this scale. Either giving us firm affirmations of support or saying nothing at all. Saying nothing in particular is never helpful =/ Templar Two wrote: These are the official forums for the beta, CCP could participate here a little more. For instance they could set specific topics they want us to discuss, or make polls. And Templar brings up an excellent example Rather then 30 different threads all talking about the I want and fantasy additions if the devs gave us things to consider and discuses among the community. Content updates actually have the option to work on and change in the relatively near future ( 6 months to 1 year) or subjects they simply want community input on. This would go a long way and create a good productive discourse among the community members about a subject that is relevant to current and upcoming development.
[Veteran_Card Drunook] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 12:35:00 - [15] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Howdy! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18304 If you check out the IRC you will have a far deeper interaction with the playerbase and hear firsthand feedback from some of the devs/GMs about what is/isn't being worked on. Nearly every problem you've complained about is fixed in the next build, and just so you know, the battle server issue is a very recent issue. Sometimes they can't always give direct feedback on the forums, because players sometimes take such posts as immutable law and are unforgiving if things don't pan out that way. (Someone else mentioned something about people being entitled, it ties in with this.) The devs do make posts on occasion when neccessary, but generally players do a good enough job responding and answering people's questions that its not entirely neccessary for CCP to respond to every thread! EDIT: If it's any consolation.. Past updates to dust have been comparable to crucible, in terms of content added and fixed. They're good. They learned well from incarna, and it reflects in dust! Nova Knife, I understand that you are saying there is a lot of information and feedback on the IRC channel. Which is good, but doesn't help the community at large. The feedback on the IRC channel is only available to those that have gotten a beta key, then set up a dust account, then gotten on the forum, then read your sticky, then registered a separate IRC account, and then spend time on the IRC channel. Do you not see why that isn't having a widespread effect on the community? For fans such as you, Darius or I who are willing to dig for information that isn't too difficult. But for the majority of players who are in this beta you're asking a lot of extra steps for them to jump through just to get a yes or no one whether the Devs are aware of something.
[Veteran_Templar Two] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 12:50:00 - [16] - Quote The point is that we on these should not have to dig to know "what will the next patch/build fix." Why can't that be in plain sight for everyone to see? I/we would give far better feedback having a sense of what has been changed, of what is coming: now I feel that every feedback I/we give is either dated or ignored. Also I have seen a proliferation of repeated topics, topics avoidable, and CCP did nothing for this: not single time I saw one of these topics being closed. Useful feedabk or very reasonable requests, now disappear and less likely will be noticed simply because they are pushed down in the list....unless of course you dare to bump them which is prohibited. I have the utmost respect for CCP, and I am grateful to be here, but really I feel abandoned.
[Veteran_Darius Ashran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 07:49:00 - [17] - Quote IDK about not having to look for the information you want but At least having said information available to us on the public forum seems reasonable. And Not to stray from the threads original point in that the general community interaction seems bit nill on well. Alot of the heated issues around the forums lately.
[Veteran_Grideris] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 08:43:00 - [18] - Quote So I'll try to be blunt. You want CCP to start more conversations. You want them to add a "Mad Science" sub-forum where any developer can post crazy outlandish ideas they came up with five minutes ago that have had no iteration and get a response from the community? Then you also want them to make a sticky listing all the known issues/bugs and their status? (And that's the start of it. I'm sure there are more things they could add if I thought for a little longer). I for one would welcome these additions, especially the mad science sub-forum (which is an idea I have shamelessly stolen from a thread on the EVE Forums). However, CmdrWang is only one man and he has a lot to do (as Nova Knife pointed out) and he is the only man in community on DUST 514 (though I believe that GM Fabulous should be starting to give him a hand). As for the rest of the developers, I don't know how easy it is for them to come post here very often. The only ones I have seen around are a couple of the GMs (who don't do any development) and CCP Mindstar. We do get CCP Nothin and CCP Nullarbor on IRC, but it would be nice in some situations for those two to also post a little more there (I'm sure there are many things about the virtual economy that you would like to ask CCP Nothin). So in summary? More blue bars starting topics would be nice. (Red bars are cool too, but you guys don't actually do any development so it's not quite the same)
[Veteran_mexil van mexil2] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 09:43:00 - [19] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Nova Knife, I understand that you are saying there is a lot of information and feedback on the IRC channel. Which is good, but doesn't help the community at large. The feedback on the IRC channel is only available to those that have gotten a beta key, then set up a dust account, then gotten on the forum, then read your sticky, then registered a separate IRC account, and then spend time on the IRC channel. Do you not see why that isn't having a widespread effect on the community? For fans such as you, Darius or I who are willing to dig for information that isn't too difficult. But for the majority of players who are in this beta you're asking a lot of extra steps for them to jump through just to get a yes or no one whether the Devs are aware of something. I'm new to Eve and Dust and these forums. Would just like to chip in that if the only way we are going to get feedback from CCP is by going on IRC then as the quote above says, that will put a lot of people off, me included. You won't hear me complain about lag, crashes and zombies - that's what Beta is for. But if CCP want to sell this game to a wider community, they need to be coming with responses in these forums , even general ones, on the concerns we are raising about the game's design. Still, it's early days and I'll be watching out to see what comes back our way.
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 10:56:00 - [20] - Quote As promised earlier in the thread, a summary.

[Veteran_Card Drunook] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 15:52:00 - [21] - Quote Grideris wrote: So I'll try to be blunt. You want CCP to start more conversations. You want them to add a "Mad Science" sub-forum where any developer can post crazy outlandish ideas they came up with five minutes ago that have had no iteration and get a response from the community? Then you also want them to make a sticky listing all the known issues/bugs and their status? (And that's the start of it. I'm sure there are more things they could add if I thought for a little longer). I for one would welcome these additions, especially the mad science sub-forum (which is an idea I have shamelessly stolen from a thread on the EVE Forums). However, CmdrWang is only one man and he has a lot to do (as Nova Knife pointed out) and he is the only man in community on DUST 514 (though I believe that GM Fabulous should be starting to give him a hand). As for the rest of the developers, I don't know how easy it is for them to come post here very often. The only ones I have seen around are a couple of the GMs (who don't do any development) and CCP Mindstar. We do get CCP Nothin and CCP Nullarbor on IRC, but it would be nice in some situations for those two to also post a little more there (I'm sure there are many things about the virtual economy that you would like to ask CCP Nothin). So in summary? More blue bars starting topics would be nice. (Red bars are cool too, but you guys don't actually do any development so it's not quite the same) I'm not sure about everyone else, but most of that isn't what I was asking for. I made two reasonable suggestions, neither or which would significantly add to the Devs workload. Right now I think the biggest problem these forums have is that we don't have more than a very vague clue what the Devs even know about. I'm not asking for them to say "we're working on this" I'm asking for "we've heard you." Nova Knife: Thanks for the thread about the next patch. Things along those lines would be what I'm asking for. But until a Dev posts in that topic saying "most of this is correct" it's still information that we have to trust you on. That said, I'm not being sarcastic when I say thanks. It really is a useful thread and I've seen enough from you on the forums that I can mostly trust it's accuracy. The problem is that a lot of the people who read it won't know you.
[Veteran_Rhapsodyy] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 21:54:00 - [22] - Quote It would be nice to see some more dev / gm action on the forums. Though its not like there hasnt been any. Im not expecting them to compile lots of sexy lists of changes and stuff they are working on atm really, cos well they are too busy working on them. But would be nice to see their responses or what they think on some of the constructive threads on the forums. This is still in beta and no doubt a ton of work is going on, and over time once the game is released and the community team is increased we will see alot more communication from the devs on the forums and in blogs etc. For now though we just have to be a little patient still. Hopefully we'll see some more forum action once the new build is out, cos lets be honest there are not many new threads turning up with things that havnt been covered 100 times atm.

CCP Cmdr Wang Doomheim 196	Posted - 2012.07.02 04:00:00 - [23] - Quote You guys are being heard by the dev team have no worry about that. As you can see, E3 update addressed a lot of your concerns and the next update will fix even more issues and introduce more features. We at CCP believe in DOING more than just talking about it, because at the end of the day that's what counts. But know that we are constantly listening to our players and discussing your suggestions, rants, wish lists, etc.

Card Chaozian 14	Posted - 2012.07.02 04:26:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: You guys are being heard by the dev team have no worry about that. As you can see, E3 update addressed a lot of your concerns and the next update will fix even more issues and introduce more features. We at CCP believe in DOING more than just talking about it, because at the end of the day that's what counts. But know that we are constantly listening to our players and discussing your suggestions, rants, wish lists, etc. I understand, appreciate and endorse the fact that you all spend more time on Making the game than telling us about how you're making it. Unfortunately, you just gave an example of how there needs to be a better feedback loop on the forums by replying to this topic several WEEKS after it was made. I don't expect or ask for daily feedback, and that isn't what this thread is about. But there's clearly some sort of disconnect going on between what you are aware of at CCP and what we're aware of as beta testers. And unfortunately it's only going to get worse as more and more people show up on the forums. I'm currently in a situation where I can check the forums several times a day, and I read most of the topics posted. I very much doubt there are that many other people doing so. So to everyone else finding relevant information (to give an example, the fact you're aware of the current problems with voicechat) is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. This thread was created when there was a lot less activity on the forums. Now we've gone from wanting a better organized distribution of information to needing it. And I say that thinking of both directions. As nice as it would be for us beta testers to not have to sort through fifty topics a day to find new information it will be easier for you as developers to be able to find useful feedback if you didn't have to do the same thing. Right now, the way I see it, what you can do most easily to have a considerable effect on this problem is to just post a sticky showing what you currently know about. As I'd earlier posted it doesn't need to say what you're doing about it (though comments would be appreciated). Just knowing that you are AWARE of a problem will make a lot of repeat posts go away. Even if it was updated only once a week it would be helpful.
Freyar Tarkin Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 95	Posted - 2012.07.02 04:46:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: You guys are being heard by the dev team have no worry about that. As you can see, E3 update addressed a lot of your concerns and the next update will fix even more issues and introduce more features. We at CCP believe in DOING more than just talking about it, because at the end of the day that's what counts. But know that we are constantly listening to our players and discussing your suggestions, rants, wish lists, etc. Certain things need to be acknowledged in a timely manner. Without feedback, people won't know what to report, or what data is needed.
Templar1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.07.02 04:51:00 - [26] - Quote wow this is funny one thing i took from this after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the first post was windge windge windge the way i look at it is its a beta compared to the first beta build ( ill call it V1 ) this one has vastly improved on it some one correct me if im wrong with this post but yea
Zach Shanna Algintal Core Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2012.07.02 05:00:00 - [27] - Quote Templar1 wrote: wow this is funny one thing i took from this after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the first post was windge windge windge the way i look at it is its a beta compared to the first beta build ( ill call it V1 ) this one has vastly improved on it some one correct me if im wrong with this post but yea You spelt whinge wrong but to be fair, nobody knows how to spell that word. The following doesnt relate to the quote but I felt the urge to correct you. I agree with the OP in the sense that I have no idea if there's a point of posting all of this information on the forums. There isnt any feedback on what's happening on the developer's side and it feels like we're talking to a brick wall. Obviously, it is going to be difficult to deal with all of the bugs and requests going through and having to read through every post on that particular thread is going to be even worse, especially as the developer's have other things to be doing (like fixing the game) but we need some recognition that there is a point in our posts and I definitely agree about the idea of having a sticky updating us on what has been noticed. I sympathise greatly with CCP as it must be a nightmare going through the posts but the only reason it is such a problem is because everybody repeats themselves as they have no idea if they're point has been recognised or not.
[Veteran_Card Drunook] 0	Posted - 2012.07.02 05:05:00 - [28] - Quote Templar1 wrote: wow this is funny one thing i took from this after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the first post was windge windge windge the way i look at it is its a beta compared to the first beta build ( ill call it V1 ) this one has vastly improved on it some one correct me if im wrong with this post but yea I guess you misunderstood the purpose of this thread. We're not talking about a problem with the computer program that is the DUST 514 beta. We're talking about the beta program (organized testing). It will be easier for them to fix the game if the feedback they get from us is more organized and coherent than it currently is.

CCP Frame Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 351	Posted - 2012.07.02 05:30:00 - [29] - Quote We will make sure to have up-to-date thread of all the known issues for every following build. That should save all of us some headache :)

Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.02 06:30:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: You guys are being heard by the dev team have no worry about that. As you can see, E3 update addressed a lot of your concerns and the next update will fix even more issues and introduce more features. We at CCP believe in DOING more than just talking about it, because at the end of the day that's what counts. But know that we are constantly listening to our players and discussing your suggestions, rants, wish lists, etc. What like breaking the HMG? If I cry enough on the forums can I make my particular character build and play style superior to everyone else's, too? Gosh, I hope the devs read the thread where the guy wants to make the forge gun less effective against vehicles and grant that wish then we can all play world of tanks in space.

Mirun Hirute Algintal Core Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2012.07.02 06:34:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: We will make sure to have up-to-date thread of all the known issues for every following build. That should save all of us some headache :) That should be amazing. It will make everything so much easier for us and yourselves (hopefully).
Templar1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.07.02 08:13:00 - [32] - Quote Templar1 wrote: wow this is funny one thing i took from this after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the first post was windge windge windge the way i look at it is its a beta compared to the first beta build ( ill call it V1 ) this one has vastly improved on it some one correct me if im wrong with this post but yea please note i did only read the first 2 paragraphs upon reading the rest i feel a bit stupid now but hey thats what you get for trolling eh :)
[Veteran_Card Drunook] 0	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:27:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: We will make sure to have up-to-date thread of all the known issues for every following build. That should save all of us some headache :) Thank you.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:36:00 - [34] - Quote To Grideris and Nova Knife: In your responses to the OP, you both come off as sounding condescending. Worse yet, you've both interpreted the original post as a complaint, which it quite obviously wasn't. The OP went out of his way to explicitly point out the the only thing he was asking for was improved forum feedback. Furthermore, the issue he specifically mentions, a regularly updated issue/response sticky is eminently reasonable. It's so fundamentally basic to good developer/player communication that it should have been part of CCP's forum communication strategy from day one. I take my hat off to the OP, who was admirably gracious in response to you guys, and who actually took the care to read and respond to what you had posted.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:42:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: We will make sure to have up-to-date thread of all the known issues for every following build. That should save all of us some headache :) Sweet. Nice save, Frame.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:55:00 - [36] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: To Grideris and Nova Knife: In your responses to the OP, you both come off as sounding condescending. Worse yet, you've both interpreted the original post as a complaint, which it quite obviously wasn't. The OP went out of his way to explicitly point out the the only thing he was asking for was improved forum feedback. Furthermore, the issue he specifically mentions, a regularly updated issue/response sticky is eminently reasonable. It's so fundamentally basic to good developer/player communication that it should have been part of CCP's forum communication strategy from day one. I take my hat off to the OP, who was admirably gracious in response to you guys, and who actually took the care to read and respond to what you had posted. I do apologize to anyone who feels I was being condescending. I generally take great pains to stay as well informed about the inner workings of Dust514 as possible, and "parrot" what I know to help others stay informed as well. My intention was to tell the OP where and how he could glean most of the same information and feedback from the devs as I and others do. The IRC is a place to get the chance to chat live with devs, hearing what they are working on, participating in brainstorms about what we'd like to see in upcoming features, and even help them out in confirming/pinpointing bugs. As far as feedback with/from Devs goes... the IRC is truly the place to be. That was the point I was trying to make. The forums are often cluttered and when a big issue or thread arises it is not uncommon to see a CCP post. But with the sheer amount of clutter on the forums, It is understandable they do not post in every thread. Even now OP, they have seen your feedback and said they will try to fulfill your request as best they can :)
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:07:00 - [37] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: To Grideris and Nova Knife: In your responses to the OP, you both come off as sounding condescending. Worse yet, you've both interpreted the original post as a complaint, which it quite obviously wasn't. The OP went out of his way to explicitly point out the the only thing he was asking for was improved forum feedback. Furthermore, the issue he specifically mentions, a regularly updated issue/response sticky is eminently reasonable. It's so fundamentally basic to good developer/player communication that it should have been part of CCP's forum communication strategy from day one. I take my hat off to the OP, who was admirably gracious in response to you guys, and who actually took the care to read and respond to what you had posted. I do apologize to anyone who feels I was being condescending. I generally take great pains to stay as well informed about the inner workings of Dust514 as possible, and "parrot" what I know to help others stay informed as well. My intention was to tell the OP where and how he could glean most of the same information and feedback from the devs as I and others do. The IRC is a place to get the chance to chat live with devs, hearing what they are working on, participating in brainstorms about what we'd like to see in upcoming features, and even help them out in confirming/pinpointing bugs. As far as feedback with/from Devs goes... the IRC is truly the place to be. That was the point I was trying to make. The forums are often cluttered and when a big issue or thread arises it is not uncommon to see a CCP post. But with the sheer amount of clutter on the forums, It is understandable they do not post in every thread. Even now OP, they have seen your feedback and said they will try to fulfill your request as best they can :) Understood and appreciated. The OP is in irc, reads the forums, and is obviously well informed and working for the greater community. As am I. The irc is not an official channel. Who asked for responses in every thread? Nobody in this thread. So why do you bring it up? Not helpful.
RPGio BetaMax. 34	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:12:00 - [38] - Quote The IRC beta channel is quasi official. Discussions about NDA-Topics are officially permitted, the channel frequently has CCP personnel online.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:34:00 - [39] - Quote RPGio wrote: The IRC beta channel is quasi official. Discussions about NDA-Topics are officially permitted, the channel frequently has CCP personnel online. I'm not going to argue against this, but these forums are ALSO official, and should be given some of the same information. Even if it's an "after the fact" transcript of the IRC discussion, and there's little to no developer involvement, it's poor form to have an official forum without providing information there in at least a relatively timely manner. But all in all, this beta is a LOT better managed than most betas I've been in previously. Although most betas I've been in previously were run by Ubisoft, and are part of the reason I'm currently boycotting that company, so... not the best example. LBP2 beta was very well-managed, though, and this stands fairly well against it.
Counting Wizard Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:52:00 - [40] - Quote Forums Veteran wrote: Yeah, just to put this in perspective: Free game, in beta. You're acting far too entitled given either of those, much less both. Take a break, watch a movie, or just let it go for tonight and see how things are running tomorrow. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. These forums are terrible to read and I wish all of you would just quit posting. The amount of information-less **posting about inane and petty feelings is just stupid. To make this post more constructive I'd like to add my own thoughts about CCP's handling of the community. We testers aren't getting paid, and how we feel and think about this game is going to substantially shape its future. CCP, please increase the quantity and quality of communication between us; right now everything feels like a one way street and we can't tell if anyone is listening.** If you want testers to continue testing and the beta community's opinions about the game to improve you need to give us substantially more feedback throughout a week of testing, otherwise when the NDA lifts the public is going to find out what your testers really think about the game. My suggestions are more frequent content-filled devblogs or just having a good active devpost stickied every day/week.

RPGio BetaMax. 34	Posted - 2012.07.06 05:32:00 - [41] - Quote I recommend you "have a chat with CCP" and join us on the IRC BetaChannel (officially NDA approved). You will find devs and gms regularly there as well as some other very well informed sources like grideris or nova.
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.06 14:30:00 - [42] - Quote RPGio wrote: I recommend you "have a chat with CCP" and join us on the IRC BetaChannel (officially NDA approved). You will find devs and gms regularly there as well as some other very well informed sources like grideris or nova. A little dose of respectful tone wouldn't hurt them either.
Maffia- Thug 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 62	Posted - 2012.07.10 23:50:00 - [43] - Quote RPGio wrote: The IRC beta channel is quasi official. Discussions about NDA-Topics are officially permitted, the channel frequently has CCP personnel online. Sorry, I must of missed this somewhere........where is this IRC beta channel located? And, how do I get in?
Suanar Daranaus Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 36	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:30:00 - [44] - Quote Forums Veteran wrote: As an example, CCP CmdrWang was on IRC about an hour ago giving us a primer on what is to come in the next build and such! It's easier (And better) for them to do these things live because they can actually interact with the players in a more informal, personal level and people can ask them questions or give more direct feedback. To me, that's far better dev feedback than forum posts. I'll make a summary post later about what was discussed, so as not to derail your topic! Hey Boss, Not everyone has the time to do the IRC thing. I for one come to the FOURMS to get my info. Sometimes its a little late but it gets here. I too am an EVE player and I have to agree with the intent of the original post. Just asking for more Community. Which CCP is a leader/part of. Not bitching, moaning, or flaming here. I just agree with the post. In Rust We Trust !
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.07.26 12:14:00 - [45] - Quote Maybe check out this thread and have a thought about it...
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.07.26 12:22:00 - [46] - Quote Actions speak louder then words... I'll wait for two more updates, and with three separate examples of how CCP is handling this closed Beta I'll cast my judgement, until then I'm relatively impressed with responsiveness compared to other companies... MORE is always better though, but I'm not going to throw a fit or rage because I've only got above average when I could have exemplary.


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