First off i forgot if its Windows of Opportunity or Waves of Opportunity, but im referring to CCPs goal of vehicles being strong for a little while and then vulnerable for a little while. Whatever its called it isnt working.

Now before anyone burns me at the steak for attempting to touch vehicle balance, let me state i have some basic experience using vehicles and extensive experience shooting them. I know im going to be accused of bias by people who dont even read the whole OP. Regardless of that, as someone who would like to get into using vehicles, there is no bias here - these are simply my observations as someone who has shot at vehicles and my frustrations as someone attempting to learn how to use vehicles.

Now with that out of the way, im going to cut to the chase - most active modules are fine, and the Windows or Waves or whatever it is works tolerably. Hardners, on the other hand, are working too well and throwing everything else out of whack.

So at this point i figure many people have already stopped reading and have started replying, those of you still with me, let me explain.

Im going to be using tanks in this example but much of this applies to DS as well, tanks are simpler to type than vehicles.

Currently, with hardners active, tanks are increadibly difficult to destroy with a reasonable ammount of infantry AV. That being said, without hardners, tanks are increadibly easy to destroy with just a single person. The current state of hardners makes vehicles incredibly difficult to balance as they are both overpowered and underpowered at the same time - it all depends wholly on whether the hardners are on or off.

Am i the only one who sees an issue with this?

From an infantry perspective, since tanks are so fast and can easily outrun infantry AV, tanks can simply make their 'vulnerable' period completely irrelevant by either using 2 hardners or returning to the redline and waiting for the cooldown. Either way, the only time they will be getting shot is when they have their hardners on.

From a tank's perspective, it basically forces you to fit 2 hardners, or spend time in the redline waiting for cooldowns.

What im getting at is the current 'Windows of Opportunity' system isnt fun for both tankers (do nothing in redline and wait to get hard again) and infantry (can only ever shoot a tank when it has its hardners on) unless the tanker has 2 hardners and is perma-hardened (which isnt even waves of opportunity anymore, is it...?)

On top of this, it seems like a vehicle is not viable unless it has a hardner - which i dont believe is right. In eve, there are many ways to fit a ship. In dust, there are many ways to fit a dropsuit. When it gets to tanks though, theres only so many ways to fit a tank and still be viable, and that is because windows of opportunity forces players to fit hardners.

There isnt a solution i can propose that wouldnt start a flamewar and cause butthurt, but my point still stands:

Tanks and DS will NOT be balanced so long as 'Windows of Opportunity' applies to hardners - they will flip flop between overpowered and underpowered, much like the activation cycle of the hardners themselves. All you need to do is look back at the changes made to hardners in the past for proof.

TL;DR Vehicles are too reliant on hardners, too durable with hardners, too vulnerable without.

Yeah but right now it's entirely too easy for idiots to be lazy and still profit.

If it is so easy, lets get in a squad, I will give you proto tanks, and you put up back to back to back quality games without dying.

This is because one of the foulest sicknesses plaguing DUST has always been the Redline. This game will ultimately be impossible to balance so long as the redline remains. There are plenty of alternatives, but all require actual coding, so it will never happen unless a port magically appears (don't hold your breath)

Hardeners may not be the problem by themselves, but the combination of Hardeners and Passive Reps is. Separately neither is that big an issue, and in fact are likely working as intended, but when combined the result is invinsi-tank. As you said, damage just doesn't stick.

Tankers have said, and I can agree, that without Hardeners a HAV is too fragile. So buff the HP for the hulls. If that's not enough, a small passive resistance can be added and Active Hardeners reduced to balance. Make it attractive, or at least viable, to run HP over resistance.

Active Reps definitely need to a thing again. Fuel Injector needs a rework when combined with Hardeners to stop instant acceleration the moment things go south. Perhaps activating a Hardener reduces acceleration and top speed, much like fitting a plate, due the Hardeners making the armour much denser and heavier. Or it can be a result of high power drain.

I would dissagree that hulls need more HP, it's the buffer modules that need to provide more...adding hp to the hulls just further encourages multi-hardened builds...in fact HAV hulls may even need to have their HP reduced (The Maddy in Particular).

Also, I would argue that, on their own merits Hardeners are fine, but Passive Reps are broken at their current repair levels. Combining something that is fine, but amplifies the power of something broken just results in the broken thing being even worse off