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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:
Currently, with hardners active, tanks are increadibly difficult to destroy with a reasonable ammount of infantry AV. That being said, without hardners, tanks are increadibly easy to destroy with just a single person. .
With two hardeners active, a tank can be cut through with 6 AV grenades at maximum.
Now, should two people be able to destroy a double hardened tank in less than 4 seconds?
It is already suicide to not run a dual hardened maddie. So if you can't go with a maximum hardened tank and survive for more than 5 seconds, what is the point of tanks?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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282
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Once the mode is activated you can't move, you can't take in any remote repairs from another player, the mode does nothing to your damage output, and you can't manually deactivate until the timer runs its course.
Actually, Bastion gives you a 25% boost to falloff and missile velocity, which does affect damage output.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 15:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Knox Firmus wrote:
While the falloff curve gets stretched, and the missiles do get to their target faster, this does not actually increase damage, only the range at which it can be applied. DPS is still determined by the cycle time of the module, and the damage each cycle produces.
you could argue the first volley of missiles has a higher dps, but after that it is the same
Falloff has an affect on DPS.
A Vargur in bastion will be doing more damage at say 50km than out. A Kronos gains less, but still is a noticeable increase in applied DPS. A paladin gains an huge increase in the application of scorch.
These are meaningful increases in applied DPS.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:
I can agree that AV grenades are allitle over the top right now. Im thinking what if we halved damage and nanite cost to resupply, but doubled carry capacity? they become less alpha and more sustained DPS, same total damage dealt, but more chance to react for the vehicle.
[
No, AV grenades are just about right.
Jesus, you don't even know why you think tanks are OP, you are just spouting off random crap and pretending that is a thesis.
Having a high alpha nuclear baseball is exactly what infantry needs to punish yolo swag tankers who like to drive into a horde of people.
Jesus, I am getting pretty tired of having to tell AV how to kill my tank. If I had not biomassed my heavy toon there would never be tank alive on the enemy team, but you scrubs can't even kill a standard maddy without help.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 17:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
The main problem is that the nuclear baseball is even more effective than most actual AV weapons, and can be carried even by non AV players.
So you are 100% outnumbered by AV from the moment you spawn onto the map. Toning them back a tad wouldn't hurt anyone but scrubs.
You know this game is screwed when a tanker is defending AV nades versus so called AV players.
As a tanker, I assume every player has AV nades, and I don't get into throwing range. If they actually had them, there would be far less complaining about maddies.
Clearly, the scrubs(which is 99% of the infantry players when it comes to fighting tanks) need all the help they can get, because thinking isn't their strong suit. They need more homing AV otherwise they just can't do the job.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 17:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Jesus, you don't even know why you think tanks are OP incase i wasnt clear, let me dumb it down for you. Vehicles are weak and hardeners are overperforming. I never said tanks are OP, consider reading the OP next time.
And yet, even double hardened two players can absolutely nuke a tank.
So how are hardeners overperforming exactly?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 17:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:
Also, you evidently missed the part where i said Half Damage, Double Capacity
Which increases their TTK, which is a non starter. I didn't miss you being an idiot, I just didn't want to come out and call you one. You really are pushing for it.
DRT 99 wrote:
Well i'd say that the fact that it takes 2 people to even stand a chance at killing one double hardened tank that, ignoring hardeners, dies to three 'baseballs', is a pretty sure sign that hardeners are overperforming and vehicles without hardeners are lacking.
Tell me exactly how many players you think it should take to kill a tank. This will be good.
1. Not stand a chance. Two players with AV will cut right through a double hardened tank. Two players with AV nades and either swarms/forges/plc won't even have to reload. These claims that people struggle to kill a tank with 4 people are simply lies. There is literally no excuse for a tank to live with 3 people trying to kill it.
2. Having to double up on hardeners to be able to even face av isn't a sign that hardeners are overperforming. It is players resorting to the ONLY fit that allows them to engage at an objective at all. Even if they do that, and go max tank, two people can nuke it with AV nades during its hardened phase. And since the tanker has to double up to survive, it creates the unhardened opportunity to kill it.
How many people to take out a tank? I have said this many, many times before, the answer is one. But not from range, and not with only a single weapon slot being used. I risk my tank by calling it out. In order to kill me, you better have to come within my killing zone so I at least have a chance to either evade, fight or die.
Then again, people like you, talking about tanks without having ever driven one, of course you don't know what you are talking about.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 18:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:General Mosquito wrote:2. Having to double up on hardeners to be able to even face av isn't a sign that hardeners are overperforming. It is players resorting to the ONLY fit that allows them to engage at an objective at all. This is exactly what i have been saying, when the ONLY way to have a vehicle be durable is with hardeners.
And your solution is to nerf hardeners because you were dropped on your head as a child?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 18:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:
What im saying is that vehicles are underperforming unless hardeners are involved - people are FORCED To use hardeners in order to be viable, which kills variety in fittings. Theres like 2 viable loadouts for a maddies low slots. both involve 2 hardeners.
What im saying is make vehicles viable without hardeners. Does that involve a hardener nerf? yes. does it involve some other buffs? also yes.
We are not going to get ANOTHER total vehicle rework with this game.
So keep asking for what will never happen I guess.
You are better off learning to not suck at AV, that might be possible.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 19:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:General Mosquito wrote:You are better off learning to not suck at AV, that might be possible. youre contributing nothing to the discussion other than insuls. if youre going to provide reasonable criticism, do so, if youre going to suggest an alternative, im listening, otherwise stop spkring all over the thread.
My contribution is to correct the blatant lies and hyperbole coming from the crybaby av'ers.
I'm sure you would love it if no one ever pointed out that you are wrong, or bad. That isn't the real world though sparky. In the real world, fools get mocked and idiots get told to mind their tongues.
Keep singing those stories about needing a whole squad to take out a tank, and I'll still be around to point out that it isn't true.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Depends whether or not you know how to suggest the changes that are the low-hanging fruit to make V/AV balance work.
But the thing tanks need is a purpose that isn't simply ROLL ROLL ROLL ROLL PEW PEW INFANTRY DIE!!!
Small changes are one thing. Tweak av damage, slow tanks down, adjust turret rotation, are all possible as low hanging changes. All would be viable for discussion. None of the crybaby threads ever approach that idea though. Its always nerf hardeners, nerf hardeners, nerf hardeners. They want that because it will destroy the maddie as a viable option to play in. Which is seemingly the only goal of these types of threads. "I can't kill a hardened tank by myself in less than 5 seconds! This is not fair!" is not a valid argument for tanks being op.
There will never be another roll for tanks in this game. No one in PC uses them for transport, and a 3 man tank team is a virtual steamroller in pubs. People don't spawn on tank CRUs when you are sitting by an undefended flag, so it isn't like making them roaming crus works either.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
can you please link a nurf tank thread that has been made with in the last 6 months?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=208479
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:dam how far back did you have to go?(page wise i went about 15) I admit you got me on that one now comparing how many nurf tanks threads to AV is OP why do you call AVer crybabies? when its the tankers crying.
I call av'ers crybabies because every time I try to kill a tank with AV, I do it. It isn't difficult, it doesn't take me and 5 friends. I just do what is necessary, and poof, no more tank.
If I can do it in a scout suit with std av and proto nades and less than 3 million SP in suits, there is no excuse for anyone else to not be able to do it. Especially since I don't even use the easy mode minmando setup that allows you to never even be at risk.
Learn to spell and type, unless you like people thinking you are a re.tarded 14 year old girl who flunked out of 1st grade.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 23:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
As an AV Sentinel, I have to disagree with this statement, is only because Commandos can't use AV Grenades and because our (Sentinel) fat asses can't get close to a HAV unless it comes to us. The Forge is also slower to charge than a Plasma Cannon and hits for less Alpha, so even if we did get close, 3 'nades and a charge shot may not drop the tank
Here is the thing:
You are not your dropsuit, and your dropsuit is not a fixed role.
If your goal is to destroy a tank, you should use what works, not what you want to work. I always thought that the heavy should be the primary AV unit, but CCP clearly thinks differently. I don't make the rules, but I do intend to win within them.
Playing to win matters more than trying to respect your SP investment.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
283
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Posted - 2015.08.15 01:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:
As an AV Sentinel, I have to disagree with this statement, is only because Commandos can't use AV Grenades and because our (Sentinel) fat asses can't get close to a HAV unless it comes to us. The Forge is also slower to charge than a Plasma Cannon and hits for less Alpha, so even if we did get close, 3 'nades and a charge shot may not drop the tank
Here is the thing: You are not your dropsuit, and your dropsuit is not a fixed role. If your goal is to destroy a tank, you should use what works, not what you want to work. I always thought that the heavy should be the primary AV unit, but CCP clearly thinks differently. I don't make the rules, but I do intend to win within them. Playing to win matters more than trying to respect your SP investment. Which makes an entire class obsolete and pointless. What's the point of Heavy weapons if Light weapons do the job better? Why have Sentinels if Assaults and Scouts can perform their role just as well, if not better? Forge Guns should be a viable option for taking down HAVs, as should non-Minmatar/Caldari Commandos. Gunnlogi should b a viable HAV choice. If the only viable AV fit is Plasma Cannon and AV Grenades on a Light/Scout frame, then there's an issue, just like if the only viable HAV fit is double hardened Madruger. If there's no other options, for either AV or HAV, then there's a serious issue.
You're preaching to the choir on that front.
But ask yourself, do I want to destroy tanks or wear a fat suit? If you want to destroy vehicles, the fat suit is not the most effective.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
284
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Posted - 2015.08.15 14:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote: but there NEEDS to be a strong element of pilots considering what they're getting themselves into every time they commit to a firefight, lest they run into a firefight that will overwhelm thier defenses before they can retreat to repair.
This already happens with tankers who actually survive.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
284
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Posted - 2015.08.15 14:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Yeah but right now it's entirely too easy for idiots to be lazy and still profit.
That is the tankers opponents who allow that.
If a tank is making in and out runs on you, there is no excuse for you to not leave him a instapop proxie trap on the third go round.
A tank actually trying to push an objective, meeting determined opposition who don't just fling swarms(and even if they do, minmando plus one mlt swarmer will put a serious hurting on a tank) will die.
If it is so easy, lets get in a squad, I will give you proto tanks, and you put up back to back to back quality games without dying.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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