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sir RAVEN WING
Vader's-Fist
4
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Posted - 2015.08.22 13:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Just move the redline back further or make the thales and other sniper rifles have less range.
I agree with redline.
Not with making the SR even worse.
VF Diplomat.
"Goodbye Mr. Fishy, you're now a bird."
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sir RAVEN WING
Vader's-Fist
4
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Posted - 2015.08.22 14:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Yep, I'm biased. What do I need to 'understand' here beyond snipers are whiny babies who complain because their hyper-niche tool isn't an actual "role" and they can't use it to do anything and everything? Why should I need to post on alt to counter anothers 'points'?
MINA, you must understand that the SR is horribly UP.
Why? Because, if it is not in the redline, it shall be near useless. The LR basically takes it place doing most things, except the LR can also fight ~40m
I am not saying they should do everything, I am saying that they have one of the worst hit detection of all weapons, is looked upon with a stigma, and is basically inferior to the LR if it isn't in the redline.
Now, I shall counter your argument.
1) Yes, they actually can cover an objective, it is not easy and they are almost always shamed for it, but honestly that guy you consider to be a useless piece of KDR padding shite could be the reason why the enemy team is suddenly off the roof, or corralled into a small space which could be perfect for a Locus.
Do not forget taking out links, hives, and other EQ that the enemy team might be using to farm WP for an OB and using to reinforce the area of interest.
2) This isn't even an argument, it's a steaming pile of bias.
3) Attacking HAVs too? They are both useful, but since I have already explained why the sniper can be useful, let's go to HAVs.
They can not only help push a point on the *grand majority* of maps, but they can also repel any red push on that point provided the entire push is not AV, which would mean it would be wiped out by the blues on the point.
To be entirely honest, that's it. Snipers are more team orientated than HAVs to be honest.
4) Redline snipers are gutless creatures that deserve to be burnt in Heath. Although not everyone of them are redline snipers.
It is a problem that 90% of the playerbase thinks they are and that the LR can get the snipers 75% of the time. (Commandos with both LR and SR are a good counteract though)
5) I highly agree that the weapon's range nerf was justified.
6) Have you seen how this game's devs work? They listen to what we say, then do it.
If they relied on data, the already UP Caldari suits would be nerf into oblivion.
We are truly at an in-pass to fix this.
Finally, bias again.
7) Yeah, no point in Alena's part there.
8) This is true, the nerfs were meant to happen. Although I have never seen in all my time playing this game a single match that started with plenty of redline snipers. I've seen a few in the redline at the start, but never have I seen it start out with more snipers than anything else. I also agree that redline snipers are almost completely useless. Redline snipers.
9) Correct! Sniper is a playstyle.
Finally, the sniper playstyle can be useful, but is not because it is challenging to find the spot to make it useful, and the are people like you, proactively showing bias against it.
I rarely use them anymore, and only have it at lvl 3 (Because it's useless to go any higher if you are not a redliner.)
When I do? You are going to notice that there is an objective, that whenever it is being hacked, the hacker seems to stop hacking just as a SR pops up in the killfeed. (If you don't get it, I kill the guys hacking it.)
VF Diplomat.
"Goodbye Mr. Fishy, you're now a bird."
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sir RAVEN WING
Vader's-Fist
4
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Posted - 2015.08.22 18:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:
1) Yes it is possible on some maps to cover an objective when the sun the planets and all the ****ing stars align and you might cover the crap out of that one objective. But you're still less useful than almost any other teammate who can better adapt to changes in the battle. Don't make me laugh with "I'll get them off the roof" etc, because you don't do enough damage unless you land multiple consecutive shots or get only headshots and that's unlikely. No your damage will never be buffed up to the point where you can safely kill people with singular bodyshots only from 400m away, that is blatantly unbalanced (and part of why the roden was nerfed!). Almost anyone can take out equipment that's in the open too - you're not doing something special there.
2) No, it isn't. People who sit in the redline, killing almost no-one (because they exist only to take shots of opportunity at usually non-critical sockets), not hacking things and not deploying equipment are not worth having as teammates.
3) Pointing out a parallel which is also true. Having a huge swarm of tanks on a map where they can only access one point is not useful. Also a vast majority of sockets are 'indoors' with no line of fire onto them, tanks are only threatening because of their speed, 'invincibility' and ability to inhibit enemy movement. If the large blaster turret weren't good at killing infantry tanks would be almost as big of a non-factor as snipers.
4) Have you actually seen any snipers at "work"? High ridges and rooftops as far away from objectives as possible. People assert the claim "redline sniper" because thats where they're found the vast majority of the time.
6) Yes, I have seen how the devs work. I like to keep myself informed and offer my opinion on things where I'm capable of providing meaningful feedback, which is why I took part in the dropsuit data insights thread back when the KD/R's of various dropsuits were posted. KD/R is not the sole point of data one needs to be concerned with, but it can be indicative of things.
9) No, sniper is not a playstyle, it is far too narrow in scope to be a playstyle, it is only a niche, specialized tool (and it's not even particularly amazing in its niche). When people attempt to use it beyond that niche it fails utterly.
1) You do not need to kill each and every one of them, just take out their links, and kill those which replace them.
Just killing links would work, seeing as links are limited. You can do this, while saving your own ass the trouble of running at a roof full of reds twenty times and losing a clone each and every time. So, you are saving a good bit of clones.
Tell me, what would be better, clearing a roof without losing a single clone or clearing a roof with the sacrifice of about 20 clones and a 4k WP OB.
On to adaptability, the Sniper can move from one spot to another to adjust when needed, sometimes only needs in turn a bit. Thus they may cover more letters than an assault. Take for example the large mushroom map (The Caldari one, not Gallente)
Sit on one of the towers, you now have control of at least 2 objectives. Defending those objectives may help win the game.
Now, let's take that same map and try to get a scout to hack A while the assault is at B, the hack will likely be done before the assault can get there and the scout may even wait for a counter hack attempt before killing the assault. This is only one situation though, and I understand that, but it does show how the sniper could be helpful, instead of useless like you claim.
2) No, it is, you are simply forgetting to say anything even slightly constructive and saying 'SR is evil' and 'Snipers r useless'
So in hindsight, you are just throwing insults at anyone using a sniper rifle, and making yourself look like a butthurt shite in the process. Take a moment to cool down and read your second bit of words. (Though Alena's post there didn't do much good either)
3) Your problem here is you forget that almost all sockets, indoors or not, have objects placed in points that are able to be shot at with an SR from a safe distance. Your argument only really works with about 2 sockets, and 2/3 points that could be on those sockets.
4) Yes, I know, and I hate that with a passion, although I do not let it blind me from seeing that there are extremely useful snipers out there, and you seem to allow it to blind you from such. This is why I would have all SR kills in the redline be considered 'void' and have no effect on stats or WP. Now, I would also give a bonus for killing enemies hacking an objective, not just to snipers, but to all players, because this discourages KDR chasers like Xavier Zor, and promotes play centered around trying to win.
5) Yes, it is good that you can offer sound feedback, but you seemingly can not when it comes to the SR, as seen in any post you have made in this thread regarding the SR.
9) It's not as narrow as you seem to think, and I think you should understand now how it can be a playstyle.
VF Diplomat.
"Goodbye Mr. Fishy, you're now a bird."
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sir RAVEN WING
Vader's-Fist
4
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Posted - 2015.08.22 19:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:I wish there were more snipers guarding objectives.
Don't we all?
VF Diplomat.
"Goodbye Mr. Fishy, you're now a bird."
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sir RAVEN WING
Vader's-Fist
4
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Posted - 2015.08.22 20:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why am I just realizing that MINA is far too shallow to see any reason that goes against his hatred of the SR?
Seriously, when you want to listen to some real logic instead of repeating yourself and using largely flawed logic, then I shall be here.
Although you are far more likely to claim that I could not support any argument of mine and declare yourself the winner, making you no better than those you ridicule. The only problem with that is that i will immediately write up another post combating your post (Although it is largely the same thing, or just plain lack of logic.)
Also, I am far more scared of a SR than a MD on top of the tower.
The SR kills.
The MD makes the sky pretty.
The Forge is viable in said situation, but it does not have the ability to fire quickly, as the SR does, and also, even if it fires before the hack is complete, there is still a chance that the shot will miss. If it does, you have no possible way to kill the hacker before they finish.
The PLC is just not viable in that situation.
The above is what I meant by flawed logic.
When your argument makes no sense and has no merit to it, this means you shall surely win when facing someone with logic
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