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The Eristic
Vader's-Fist
1
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Posted - 2015.08.08 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
^
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.08 19:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Perhaps you could elaborate?
CPM Platform
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The Eristic
Vader's-Fist
1
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Posted - 2015.08.08 19:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Perhaps you could elaborate?
On what? It's pretty straightforward.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
768
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Posted - 2015.08.08 20:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
logies already get bonus to fitting for equipment, why should there be further reductions? carrying equipment is a privilege not a given
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The Eristic
Vader's-Fist
1
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Posted - 2015.08.08 20:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:logies already get bonus to fitting for equipment, why should there be further reductions? carrying equipment is a privilege not a given
This has no meaning. Almost all suits, not just logis, have equipment slots. I wonder why. Maybe, just maybe, because they're intended to carry equipment?
Wouldn't you like to (picking on a pet peeve of the community) see better links on the field with more frequency? Wouldn't you like basic and adv logis to be able to fit themselves more competitively? Heck, with the recent tiericide, every little bit of fitting is critical on non-pro suits, and some basic suits can be tough to fully fit, even with all basic.
Ratman has already been talking about implementing more fitting bonuses in various places, so, when Nanocircuitry has had an excellent built-in fitting bonus forever, I see no reason why the rest of equip shouldn't follow suit. Pure unlocks are comparatively SP-inefficient and lack real incentivisation for deeper skill investment. Without a passive bonus, there's no difference between the Aur pro versions of equipment the boxes are always throwing at us and the ISK variants (unlike suits and weapons).
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.08 20:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Perhaps you could elaborate? On what? It's pretty straightforward.
How about why you think this idea should be in the game. Normally people post ideas with an explanation of what this would improve, and specifics on how it could be implemented. I thought that would have been pretty straight forward.
CPM Platform
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
770
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Posted - 2015.08.08 21:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Sicerly Yaw wrote:logies already get bonus to fitting for equipment, why should there be further reductions? carrying equipment is a privilege not a given This has no meaning. Almost all suits, not just logis, have equipment slots. I wonder why. Maybe, just maybe, because they're intended to carry equipment? Wouldn't you like to (picking on a pet peeve of the community) see better links on the field with more frequency? Wouldn't you like basic and adv logis to be able to fit themselves more competitively? Heck, with the recent tiericide, every little bit of fitting is critical on non-pro suits, and some basic suits can be tough to fully fit, even with all basic. Ratman has already been talking about implementing more fitting bonuses in various places, so, when Nanocircuitry has had an excellent built-in fitting bonus forever, I see no reason why the rest of equip shouldn't follow suit. Pure unlocks are comparatively SP-inefficient and lack real incentivisation for deeper skill investment. Without a passive bonus, there's no difference between the Aur pro versions of equipment the boxes are always throwing at us and the ISK variants (unlike suits and weapons).
not every suit has an equipment slot, sentinels sure don't, if I want better links or better whatever I take it upon myself to bring that to the field
it has plenty of meaning logies are the ones that deserve the bonuses as they are a support role, a lot of suits do have equipment slots but that is not so they can do the job of a logi it is so that you can rely less on them but not take over their job
assaults get a bonus to fitting weapons while scouts get two equipment slots instead of one so they can use a cloak and still be able to carry something else not to mention that they are the only suit that gets a significant bonus to fitting cost of the cloak, commandos can carry one piece of equipment just like assaults but they mainly use that for hives as they consume ammunition more then any other suit due to having two primary weapons some of which have vary low reserves
a logi gets bonus to fitting due to the amount of equipment they carry so that they can effectively do their jobs, as far as std suits go all of them can be competitive enough without the use of equipment and I dont want to hear this crap about not being able to fit it well chances are you are trying to fit advanced of proto mods on it making you lack the amount of resources needed to use such gear
I use std gear almost exclusively and have been commended on doing well when playing with people that mainly run proto, heck I even surpass then half of the time in all std gear or stock apex suits
I can easily fit all std mods and an adv scanner on my std cal assault and I dont have max fitting skills, all you have said is that you want to be able to fit std suits the way you want them instead of giving a good reason why and saying that they aren't competitive is not a good reason, if you lack pg or cpu on a std suit to fit something then use CPU and PG upgrades they exist for a reason
Rattati has mentioned adjusting fitting skills and making them flat bonuses instead of % based as well as other skills, but that does not mean you have the right to say that just because you cant seem to fit something the way you want it that it should be changed to satisfy you
I am not opposed to the idea you proposed but I am against the way you presented the idea and your reasons for doing so, so far you haven't given any good argument as to why equipment should receive further reductions and I doubt you have thought about what consequences it might bring if doing so, you want a commando to be able to cloak up while being damped and still have enough cpu/pg left over to fit myos so they can sneak up on everyone and OHK you?
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The Eristic
Vader's-Fist
1
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Posted - 2015.08.08 21:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote: not every suit has an equipment slot, sentinels sure don't
Hence the phrase "almost all suits". Sentinels and basic heavies don't, while how many others do? Oh yes, all of the others.
Quote:it has plenty of meaning logies are the ones that deserve the bonuses as they are a support role, a lot of suits do have equipment slots but that is not so they can do the job of a logi it is so that you can rely less on them but not take over their job
An assault carrying links or a needle, scout with links, 'mando with hives, is standard business in PC/FW syncs and in no way infringes on the dedicated logi's ability to "support". In fact, the over-reliance on explicit logistical support is a surefire recipe for a lost match. Everybody in a match needs to "support" to a greater or lesser extent as best they can, and some equip, whether through inadequacy at lower tiers or the fitting costs outright, impede that unnecessarily. If anything, a fitting reduction further strengthens the logistic suits, as they, being by necessity skilled into most if not all equipment, will benefit the most. Being able to move up a tier in reptool on a non-Min, up a tier in links on non-Amarr, et cetera, or perhaps just being able to stay alive a little longer would be quite the boon to one's team.
Quote:I use std gear almost exclusively and have been commended on doing well when playing with people that mainly run proto, heck I even surpass then half of the time in all std gear or stock apex suits
Hey, me too. I was near a billion ISK recently, until I bought a bunch of APEX suits that I gave away, all through minmaxing basic for years and being highly ISK-efficient. So?
Quote:I can easily fit all std mods and an adv scanner on my std cal assault and I dont have max fitting skills, all you have said is that you want to be able to fit std suits the way you want them instead of giving a good reason why and saying that they aren't competitive is not a good reason, if you lack pg or cpu on a std suit to fit something then use CPU and PG upgrades they exist for a reason
That is not "all" I have said at, uh, all. You're inferring too much, and there is too much variability in potential fittings for something as anecdotal as "I can fit my C-1 with x" to hold water. I run every suit, every weapon, every mod, equip, role in the game on different characters, and some are, in fact, a challenge to fit at basic, especially once weapons like the Plasma Cannon get involved or mods like Kincats. "All" I have proposed is a simple passive fitting bonus to equip skills so that skilling into them further offers greater benefit than a mere unlock for the person doing so, like skilling a dropsuit or weapon, but much less dramatic, as I am not proposing anything that increases effectiveness or functionality. It's not a tremendously complex, or I would've thought, controversial idea. Never seen anyone complain about Nanocircuitry's bonus that I can recall, and Needles/Hives aren't even resource hogs without it. Just looking for a simple way to potentially increase fitting diversity and quality.
Quote:and I doubt you have thought about what consequences it might bring if doing so, you want a commando to be able to cloak up while being damped and still have enough cpu/pg left over to fit myos so they can sneak up on everyone and OHK you?
Hell yes.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
771
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
here's the thing, you didn't explain yourself whatsoever, I am pointing out all the faults of the idea and all you are doing is defending yourself as if you aren't in the wrong
if you want people to take you seriously then don't just say something "should" be the way you say
I already stated that I do not disagree with the proposal, but there are plenty of concerns not to do it, some pieces of equipment should stay as they are and not be so easy to fit
you mentioned weapons and other gear that has nothing to do with equipment, if you are trying to fit a plasma canon then you can simply use a cpu mod to balance out its high cpu cost, all you are doing is complaining about not being able to fit your suits the way you want them, and yes I am inferring a lot because you don't leave much of an explanation as to why things "should" be as you say so
to be completely honest I don't think you thought about it at all perhaps for a few moments and then you came here to post an incomplete premise
honestly if you cant fit a std suit the way you want to then use an adv suit, I mentioned using std suits because I have never had a problem with fitting one even if using some adv gear or adv equipment
even if you use proto gear you will not be able to fit it exactly as you want to so why should basic be any different? and again pg and cpu mods exist for a reason
give me a good reason why equipment should receive further fitting requirements that will mostly benefit veteran players and only make it harder on new players that cannot do the same, you should already be able to fit way more then any new player
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1
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Posted - 2015.08.09 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1
Weapons have them,so assaults get even better fittings.
I'd also like performance enhancing nodes.(like weapons have)
-Increased nanites for hives. -Increased range for tools.
A node for each aspect of each equipment. (like weapons have)
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
424
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Posted - 2015.08.09 16:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nanocircuitry has a fittings bonus? Since when? because I'm looking at the skill right now and all I see if levelling unlocks higher tiers. No mention of any bonus to fitting Nanocircuitry equipment.
Purifier. First Class.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
2
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Posted - 2015.08.09 20:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Nanocircuitry has a fittings bonus? Since when? because I'm looking at the skill right now and all I see if levelling unlocks higher tiers. No mention of any bonus to fitting Nanocircuitry equipment.
Beta-builds the skill did. Rumor is they never took that functionality out, just didnt mention it in the description.
'As salty as salt can get.' how I describe the dust player base.
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
424
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Posted - 2015.08.09 20:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Nanocircuitry has a fittings bonus? Since when? because I'm looking at the skill right now and all I see if levelling unlocks higher tiers. No mention of any bonus to fitting Nanocircuitry equipment. Beta-builds the skill did. Rumor is they never took that functionality out, just didnt mention it in the description.
Can confirm rumor, tested using a Commando, but it only applies to CPU usage, not PG. Bonus seems to be 5% CPU reduction per level.
Purifier. First Class.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.09 21:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm for it. Any bonus, just something.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.08.09 23:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
You're suggestion sounds good on paper.
But Sicerly Yaw does have some valid points on what this would mean in practice.
I mainly run Minmatar Scout which is always known for having tight fittings even on proto level, but I rarely ever have a fitting problem when fitting both a cloak and an uplink on the suit.
I have also been cross training into suits such as the Minmatar and Amarr Sentinels, Gallente Commando, Gallente Logistics, and Minmatar Assault. Not to mention the rest of the racial scouts besides MInmatar. So far, with the way things are, equipment fitting looks ok and right now the Logistics suits have the strong advantage when it comes to equipment fittings and available bandwidth.
If an assault or scout want to carry some equipment, nothing is stopping them from doing so. They are just no longer able to marginalize the Logistics suits like they use to.
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DRT 99
RAT PATROL INC.
502
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Posted - 2015.08.10 03:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
the 5% bonus per level actually shows in some places. when youre viewing you characters skill list (the spreadhseet, not the normal 'skill sheet' with the bubbles) the 5% per level still shows. |
Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
921
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Posted - 2015.08.10 14:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be nice if the equipment skills got a bonus anyway. It doesnt have to be fitting room (while it would be nice), hell even a slight increase in how well they perform. The better option would be fitting room reduction, so that way all suits that carry equipment can fit slightly better gear, and logis will still be the best with equipment.
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.08.10 15:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Imo only nanocircutry should have that bonus, it affects the only 2 equipments which are fundamental, ammo and revive, the other equipments are optional.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
921
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Posted - 2015.08.10 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Imo only nanocircutry should have that bonus, it affects the only 2 equipments which are fundamental, ammo and revive, the other equipments are optional. since when are uplinks not fundamental? try win a dom without them.
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.08.10 16:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
They are, but not as much as the hives and injectors (even if they are underused) there are more CRU than supply depots.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
921
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Posted - 2015.08.10 17:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:They are, but not as much as the hives and injectors (even if they are underused) there are more CRU than supply depots. which get blown up and cant be replaced. You know that without links you wont win a dom, PC match or even a tight skirmish match.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they become super easy to fit, just easier.
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.08.11 00:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maybe links are fundamental in this game because there is no other way to spawn near teammates, generally in FPS ammo and revives are more important.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
921
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Posted - 2015.08.11 11:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Maybe links are fundamental in this game because there is no other way to spawn near teammates, generally in FPS ammo and revives are more important. If they are fundamental, they are just as important as ammo and revives.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
112
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Posted - 2015.08.18 07:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:The Eristic wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Perhaps you could elaborate? On what? It's pretty straightforward. How about why you think this idea should be in the game. Normally people post ideas with an explanation of what this would improve, and specifics on how it could be implemented. I thought that would have been pretty straight forward. Yeah I've been bouncing this idea around a bit myself but the simple reason is it makes sense. If weapons have fitting optimization to make them cheaper to fit why wouldn't equipment? Another reason is that some vets are complaining about running out of things to skill into. Honestly I think things like increased carry capacity or decreased bandwidth drain would be worth implementing as well.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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