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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2015.08.07 14:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Heavy suits are in desperate need of mid-range weapon options, currently the assault HMG is the closest thing we have.
so I would like to propose 2 new heavy weapons, The Heavy Assault Rifle and the Heavy Rail Rifle.
Heavy Assault Rifles would be modelled to be something akin to a futuristic M2HB, used in the same way as the current HMG.
statistically it would be similar to the existing assault rifles but would feature DPS of around 50 and a ROF of around 500, mag capacity and reload time would also be increased.
Assault variants would be statistically identical to light assault rifles with the exception of mag capacity and reload.
Breach variants would feature a ROF of around 400, but feature splash damage of 10-20 and radius of 1m due to explosive ammunition. Heat build-up per shot is also higher.
Unlike Light assault rifles the Heavy variants feature heat build-up similar to the HMG
Heavy Rail Rifles are similar, featuring higher per shot damage and significantly lower ROF than their light counterparts. The biggest difference would be the lack of a breach variant, Heavy Rail Rifles would get a Burst variant in its place.
stats will probably need to be tweaked to maintain overall balance and to ensure that these weapons are optimised for mid-range and not over powered in close quarters.
Suggestions and Feedback is welcome. |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
424
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Posted - 2015.08.07 16:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
As a Sentinel, I'd love to have more of a variety of Heavy Weapons. That said, I'm not sure about "Heavy Rifles" as the answer.
As an alternative, perhaps moving the HMG to mid-range and then introducing something like a Heavy Shotgun/Shot Cannon
Purifier. First Class.
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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2015.08.08 13:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
the HMG used to be a Mid-range weapon... however it was the most OP weapon in the game.
During the Betas the HMG went through a lot of rebalances, including tweaks to its range. |
Mad Kras
272
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Posted - 2015.08.08 14:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can already see all those hatemails for someone using such weapons
Ever tryed using pro amarr sentinel with a RR and a minnie logibro behind you? Tears keep flowing |
Kensai Dragon
T.H.I.R.D Acadamy
145
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Posted - 2015.08.08 14:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just put a light weapon on the sentinel and have fun with it. Sure, people will call you 'scrub', but in warfare you do whatever works.
What you'll most likely find is that the larger hitbox and slower speed will still be your biggest weaknesses keeping you out of the optimal positioning for light weapons. What I mean is, the HMG and variants are far superior to the light weapons in its optimal range and with close quarters cover, but when you get in the wide open spaces of 50 meters or more you'll (usually) be a sitting target getting out flanked no matter what weapon you have. I still use that setup sometimes because it's useful in certain situations, but a lot of things have to be right to be effective so it's mostly for lolz.
Generally speaking, a midrange weapon is optimal where the heavy / sentinel is not. |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2015.08.08 15:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree, moving across open map to get into optimal range has always and will always be the achilies heel of sentinal suits. having an option for some more firepower will improve survivability on a lot of maps. |
Mad Kras
283
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Posted - 2015.08.08 16:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hellhammer Tactical wrote:I agree, moving across open map to get into optimal range has always and will always be the achilies heel of sentinal suits. having an option for some more firepower will improve survivability on a lot of maps.
I miss the duna-style killer taxis, 3 badass mad heavys wrecking everything in their way
I'm aD1CKted to you <3
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
11
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Posted - 2015.08.08 22:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
But the Sentinels heavy resistance to damage high EHP and now more mid-range options would be trouble for everyone especially the Gallente due to the AR range being matched by the current Heavy weapons. But I will concede if the old Sentinel rotation speed was brought back. |
LOL KILLZ
LOS INADAPTADOS
290
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Posted - 2015.08.11 16:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd like a laser HMG
Amarr get no love when it comes to content
\0/
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
426
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Posted - 2015.08.11 16:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:I'd like a laser HMG Amarr get no love when it comes to content
Heavy Laser or Scrambler Cannon.
Purifier. First Class.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've long since called for more range options for heavies.
For mid-range I'd like a HMG. Preferably the basic variant - it's a Minmatar weapon after all. For long-range I can imagine an anti-infantry Forgegun variant that fires like a bolt-pistol. Something like 60-75 RPM full-auto with some 450-550 damage per shot, no splash, for a total DPS of ~450, which is 13% more than what a pro RR gets.
The idea is that I'd like to break the equality (non commando) heavy = CQC. Then we can properly start looking at whether we need to tweak the weapon or the suit. Right now that is a very tough discussion.
Also, I like having more options when playing the game. Options are good. |
Sgt Kirk
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Its not that a mid range weapon would be OP.
It'd just have to be balanced properly.
I'd love to have an Amarr Gattling Laser cannon but the it'd have to have insane overheat functions.
-A vote for me is a vote for us
You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:It'd just have to be balanced properly. I'm thinking the tradeoff should be "awesome weapon, not so awesome suit". That would be easy enough to balance. You make the heavy weapons ~15% better than their respective rifle of that range and then weigh down the suit enough to make it balanced.
(Currently the AHMG has ~50% more DPS than a AR of the same range, but it has that massive dispersion so I don't know how much of it actually applies.) |
Sgt Kirk
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:It'd just have to be balanced properly. I'm thinking the tradeoff should be "awesome weapon, not so awesome suit". That would be easy enough to balance. You make the heavy weapons ~15% better than their respective rifle of that range and then weigh down the suit enough to make it balanced. (Currently the AHMG has ~50% more DPS than a AR of the same range, but it has that massive dispersion so I don't know how much of it actually applies.)
I'm not a fan of gimping the suit for the sake of a weapon but I do like where you're coming from.
What if, the Gattling laser, when overheated can still fire but does damage to the user.
So, you could lay down your destructive suppressive fire for a long period of time but at the risk of making yourself a weaker target.
I imagine that's what the old Amarr Sentinel bonus had in mind when it gave 5% reduction to feedback damage per level.
-A vote for me is a vote for us
You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ideally, the HMG is supposed to be mid-range if there were a Gallente weapon.
That said, when is the Assault HMG going to be renamed Breach?
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2015.08.12 09:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
As much as i would like a bit more range on HMGs, i dont want to go back to the dark days of the betas. when HMG users shreaded every suit within 100m. I would rather have somthing that sits between the HMG and the Forge Gun. Anything that adds versitility to sentinals without unbalancing them is a good thing.... as long as its not a heavy mass driver! |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
426
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Posted - 2015.08.12 12:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
HMG's don't need to be OP in order to be mid range weapons. They just need to be balanced correctly, same as with your suggested Heavy Rifles.
Purifier. First Class.
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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2015.08.12 17:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
HMG built to be balanced at mid-range turned into god guns at close range. |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
428
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Posted - 2015.08.12 18:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tighten the dispersion and/or add a turning penalty to the weapon. Head on, it's deadly. Up close, switch to side arm.
EDIT: not that there haven't been people saying the HMG is OP even after it was pigeon holed into CQC
Purifier. First Class.
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
428
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Posted - 2015.08.12 19:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
What would stop mid range Heavy Rifles being OP in CQC? Coukd it be applied to HMG?
Purifier. First Class.
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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2015.08.12 23:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
it would be the same game of balancing ROF, damage and dispersion i guess... wierdly i think the change the "superjump" bio actualy helped stop HMG being too powerful in CQB. |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
429
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Posted - 2015.08.13 00:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
HMG hasn't been OP in close range since the last balance pass it got. Introduction of Super Mari-lol fits just hammered the point home.
Purifier. First Class.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:What would stop mid range Heavy Rifles being OP in CQC? Coukd it be applied to HMG?
Wider dispersion reticles actually helped the HMG in CQC.
Back when we had the laser tight dispersion the HMG was incredibly hard to use in close but did better further out.
There are ways of doing the job. Honestly I have a few in the works but no guarantee that it'll work.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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rpastry
Dead Man's Game
292
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Posted - 2015.08.14 08:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
handheld 20gj railgun with smaller clip than the vehicle mounted one (5-6), and overheat mechanic like 80gj vehicle railgun IE 3 shot/4 with overheat.
handheld small missile launcher (ie rocket launcher) with small clip (4?)and longish reload.
heavy laser with slow charge-up mechanic (eg 10 sec to full) and fast discharge (2 sec). high dps.
heavy plasma cannon with larger splash zone & flux grenade effect
[Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.14 09:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
rpastry wrote:handheld 20gj railgun with smaller clip than the vehicle mounted one (5-6), and overheat mechanic like 80gj vehicle railgun IE 3 shot/4 with overheat.
handheld small missile launcher (ie rocket launcher) with small clip (4?)and longish reload.
heavy laser with slow charge-up mechanic (eg 10 sec to full) and fast discharge (2 sec). high dps.
heavy plasma cannon with larger splash zone & flux grenade effect
Heavy weapons that are "the same as light weapons except superior in every way" is bad design space.
There's no point having a handheld light rail turret. The forge gun fills that niche.
Handheld small missile: no real point. Again, the forge gun fits the caldari cannon niche.
Never give a heavy weapon a charge up damage mechanic like the Laser Rifle. That will create a weapon that auto-gibs tanks.
Bigger, better plasma cannon is what I was referring to in my opening comment.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
338
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Heavies are toast now and will be for a while now due to the complaint mill group.
I like the idea of mid range weapons but I would prefer a heavy long range weapon. Make it precision based like the laser is one way to go. I saw that suggestion.
The other way to go would be an explosive based weapon. The heavy's mass driver! Make it fire thucker nades with half the damage. Then they would be able to seal down a position, but anyone with enough of a team to push through the explosives would be able to tear them up at close range.
All the talks about heavies being OP was due to the fact that people used them in their optimal space, CQC so of course their KD in that space was huge. What are you going to do?
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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XxWarlordxX97
4
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Posted - 2015.08.14 22:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
More heavy weapons please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs3nH8bE1AE
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
441
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Heavies are toast now and will be for a while now due to the complaint mill group.
I like the idea of mid range weapons but I would prefer a heavy long range weapon. Make it precision based like the laser is one way to go. I saw that suggestion.
The other way to go would be an explosive based weapon. The heavy's mass driver! Make it fire thucker nades with half the damage. Then they would be able to seal down a position, but anyone with enough of a team to push through the explosives would be able to tear them up at close range.
All the talks about heavies being OP was due to the fact that people used them in their optimal space, CQC so of course their KD in that space was huge. What are you going to do?
Best idea for a Heavy Laser I've seen is one where the laser doesn't increase in power, unlike the Light version, but when it overheats it doesn't stop firing or seize up, the wielder just starts taking damage as long as they keep firing.
Purifier. First Class.
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.08.15 01:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
To respond to Breakin's point about heavy weapons being more than just "light weapons plus", what if heavy weapons were designed with taxing the user (heavy suit) more. For example:
Min Heavy weapons are the hardest to move with (carrying, firing, jumping, etc, due to the min heavy being the fastest)
AM Heavy weapons fire through overheat, dealing feedback damage due to the Amarr being the sturdiest (and for the empress)
Cal Heavy weapons can overcharge for more damage by drawing on the user's shields, due to the Caldari's high shield strength and lack of concern for the user
Gal Heavy weapons can have the largest splash radius, due to the Gal heavy having the greatest ability to repair themselves through the damage, even in CQC situations (And sacrificing themselves for Freedom or something)
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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