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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 15:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Anaheim Darko wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:I have to say I didn't like the tone of the mail.
If you don't want stuff like that to happen then take better control of your game. Damn CCP. What did it say? Basically that we knowingly used an exploit of the game and went against the EULA terms and conditions, and that we shouldnGÇÿt do it again. Not our fault they canGÇÿt run a game properly...
Wow accusing players of violating EULA when it was a claim button that they put in the game and seemed to be working just like the rest of the claim buttons. This is just a **** move CCP, way to try to pass the buck to the players when you are the screw up.
Now being unpaid bug testers comes with getting accused of being a cheater.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 18:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:
That's standard protocol from the legal department to cover all the bases. This is a bulk mail and it's possible someone may have quickly set up a macro to attempt to redeem more suits.
Don't take it personally.
I don't take it personally at all I just think it makes CCP look like a joke.
First of all if you read the referenced section of the EULA it was not broken in any way by any one.
Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
No one used any of the listed items or did anything other than take part in a function of the game which they set forth by CCP. I would argue that a claim button which was put in place by CCP and accessible to everyone in the game could also be perceived as normal game play by any player.
There are no legal bases to cover as no one spent or lost any money and CCP simply reversed a bug which they caused.
This was just a case of someone being butt hurt over having to clean up a mess and venting it on the player base. That is a new low.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. No one used any of the listed items... No one can be absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one used these tools.
There was no need to use them to claim the items and they were only claimable once per account. What this means is even if someone did use them it did not give anything at an accelerated rate and therefore still did not violate this section.
If people were using multiple accounts then that is something different completely and should be addressed on those extra accounts not in a rage mail sent out to the entire population.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:
That's standard protocol from the legal department to cover all the bases. This is a bulk mail and it's possible someone may have quickly set up a macro to attempt to redeem more suits.
Don't take it personally.
I don't take it personally at all I just think it makes CCP look like a joke. First of all if you read the referenced section of the EULA it was not broken in any way by any one. Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. No one used any of the listed items or did anything other than take part in a function of the game which they set forth by CCP. I would argue that a claim button which was put in place by CCP and accessible to everyone in the game could also be perceived as normal game play by any player. There are no legal bases to cover as no one spent or lost any money and CCP simply reversed a bug which they caused. This was just a case of someone being butt hurt over having to clean up a mess and venting it on the player base. That is a new low. "Someone being butt hurt...and venting it on the player base." Please don't assume things or attitudes of people. It makes you look like a jerk. Think about the situation logically, people claimed an item that people have always payed money for in the past. The sudden influx of these items for free arguably devalues the purchase paying players made. There has never been a precedent of CCP giving items away like this in-game. Claiming of "Free Apex" suits were not talked about in the patch notes. And bugs do occur on patch day--I always recommend to people to be extra careful on what you trade on patch day. CCP had the ability to see who pushed the redeem button and they could follow those item transfers. Yes, there was collateral damage of removing those suits, but they needed to be taken back. There are no free lunches here.
I have no problem with them being taken back and I intentionally stayed away from selling these to people.
Actually your mention of collateral damage explains exactly what happened here. I have not spoken to anyone in game about it but I am assuming CCP did not bother reversing trades that were done for these so people are in fact out real money. This is even more of an issue as now CCP is referencing a point in the EULA that does not even apply to cover for the fact that they could not even clean up their mess in its entirety.
Here is what the message really reads: "Sorry you traded boosters and isk and paid suits for suits that we took away but you are screwed. We have deleted these suits to ensure people will give us as much money as possible but will not clean up totally behind ourselves."
Anyone that lost real items on this is 100% entitled to call Sony and get a refund as there was no violation of the EULA and CCP has now revoked the by product of the money that was spent.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Wow accusing players of violating EULA when it was a claim button that they put in the game and seemed to be working just like the rest of the claim buttons. This is just a **** move CCP, way to try to pass the buck to the players when you are the screw up.
Now being unpaid bug testers comes with getting accused of being a cheater. We did violate EULA though. Being ignorant of the law isn't an excuse when you break it, though most people have a general sense of when they're doing something wrong (enforcement of more esoteric laws is usually lacking - for example where I live if I were arrested without charge, upon being released I could demand a horse, a rifle & bullets for it and a weeks worth of food & supplies... but that's never going to happen despite it being part of the law). Fortunately due to the scale, the fact that most people were NOT serious abusers of the apex, and that the error largely happened on their end - very few punishments were actually handed out over this. deezy dabest wrote:First of all if you read the referenced section of the EULA it was not broken in any way by any one. Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or [b]other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play[/b]. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. No one used any of the listed items or did anything other than take part in a function of the game which they set forth by CCP. I would argue that a claim button which was put in place by CCP and accessible to everyone in the game could also be perceived as normal game play by any player. There are no legal bases to cover as no one spent or lost any money and CCP simply reversed a bug which they caused. This was just a case of someone being butt hurt over having to clean up a mess and venting it on the player base. That is a new low. The EULA wording is vague and broad. As a technicality even CLICKING on the claim button constitutes a "pattern of play that facilitated the acquisition of items / objects at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary gameplay", and trading them for isk certainly was an eula violation. Their game, Their EULA, their choice of what to enforce when and where.
What it comes down to is they are just using this as a reason to intentionally screw those who got caught in the cross fire of THEIR screw up because they have no ability and no desire to clean up behind them self. Dumping on people because they are worried about future sales on one suit is just plain bad business.
The people who unknowingly traded real money items for these suits are the real losers here. I very much encourage them to call and get their money back from Sony as CCP has very clearly said they do not give a flying F about them and their loss. I stayed away from selling or trading those suits to anyone cause I expected a bad fall out but there are no words for the move that CCP pulled here. They should be ashamed of them self in every sense of the word.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 21:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:deezy dabest wrote:
What it comes down to is they are just using this as a reason to intentionally screw those who got caught in the cross fire of THEIR screw up because they have no ability and no desire to clean up behind them self. Dumping on people because they are worried about future sales on one suit is just plain bad business.
The people who unknowingly traded real money items for these suits are the real losers here. I very much encourage them to call and get their money back from Sony as CCP has very clearly said they do not give a flying F about them and their loss. I stayed away from selling or trading those suits to anyone cause I expected a bad fall out but there are no words for the move that CCP pulled here. They should be ashamed of them self in every sense of the word.
Letting people keep items they didn't pay for is also bad business. They didn't dump on anyone, they removed I'll gotten items. That some people were dumb enough to buy them is on them. No mercy for people who saw a deal that was too good to be true and said yep, seems legit.
I am talking about the people such as one guy that I know who traded his bought and paid for apex suit for one of the free ones before he knew they were bugged. Now the guy that traded him has a free BPO from that trade that was paid for with cash and my friend has nothing. He never claimed those suits and did not know about it until much later in the day yet he is out $20 while the person who exploited it is laughing.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 22:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:
This strikes me as deeply contrived. Why on earth would someone trade one asset for an identical copy of the same asset? Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if you made this up, and even if you didn't my sympathies would be limited. In the hypothetical example, "your friend" was either trying to make money out of the chaotic situation, or else so lackadaisical as not to merit much sympathy.
No he did not trade the same suit. As an example he traded an APEX assault for that APEX scout. His assault is now gone forever and so is the scout leaving him with nothing after having spent X amount of dollars while the person in question is sitting there with an assault that he paid nothing for.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 22:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP should have reversed ALL transfers for that day. If that left the people who sold those suits in the negative then good.
Instead they just deleted the suits and sent out spam accusing the entire player base of cheating to cover their self on the people who unknowingly bought one of these suits and got totally screwed.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:deezy dabest wrote:CCP should have reversed ALL transfers for that day. If that left the people who sold those suits in the negative then good.
Instead they just deleted the suits and sent out spam accusing the entire player base of cheating to cover their self on the people who unknowingly bought one of these suits and got totally screwed. Anyone. Who. Clicked. The. Claim. Button. DID. Make. Use. Of. An. Exploit. And. Violated. EULA. I don't care what you have to say about it, because you are having an opinion on something that is a FACT. Opinions about facts do not matter.
The people who really got their teeth kicked in here is the ones who did NOT click the claim button. Otherwise they would not have been trading paid for items and millions of ISK for them.
Obviously you are way too fan boy to follow what an exploit is so I will just leave that conversation be.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 23:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Leither Yiltron wrote:
This strikes me as deeply contrived. Why on earth would someone trade one asset for an identical copy of the same asset? Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if you made this up, and even if you didn't my sympathies would be limited. In the hypothetical example, "your friend" was either trying to make money out of the chaotic situation, or else so lackadaisical as not to merit much sympathy.
No he did not trade the same suit. As an example he traded an APEX assault for that APEX scout. His assault is now gone forever and so is the scout leaving him with nothing after having spent X amount of dollars while the person in question is sitting there with an assault that he paid nothing for. I see. Yeah I virtually guarantee that if he files a ticket then they'll eventually get around to resolving that.
The simple solution here which was actually fair to everyone would have been to reverse all transfers for that day. Sure it would have made some ISK problems but it would have actually protected the players from CCPs screw up and actually punished those who knowingly exploited this instead of rewarding them.
I really do not care either way as I ran those suits a couple of times and then forgot about them as it was obviously a glitch. Honestly at this point I am wishing I would have ripped some people off instead.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.28 23:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:
Dude, the simple solution is you filing a ticket and getting your issue resolved.
Having ccp reversing all transactions is far more complex then you're willing to admit and quite possibly going to eff things up so much more.
And we dont want that now do we?
AS I said I did not sell or purchase any of these suits and I do not care that my 5 are gone as I never should have had them.
Others are not so lucky and many of the unwilling participants in this do not even know how to file a ticket or that they should as they have now been accused of exploiting the game.
Im not sure you can screw things up more than costing people real money and then accusing them of exploiting the game when they did absolutely nothing wrong.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.29 12:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Well as much I would of loved to see something done about the potential loss due to trades there is another issue people might not consider. Simply put not everyone still has the money. Say you bought a suit for 20m, what if the guy you sold it too doesn't have that 20m any more? Would he go into negative isk? would money appear out of no where and you would receive the money but the seller wouldn't lose it?
There is a long history of people going negative when things are reversed.
All CCP had to do is reverse all trades incoming and outgoing for that day. The real exploiters who sold the suits and ripped people off would possibly go negative on ISK, officer weapons, and boosters but at least then the real exploiters are the ones being punished instead of unsuspecting people losing ISK and real items only to later be accused of being an exploiter when they did absolutely nothing wrong.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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