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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 17:50:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:Anaheim Darko wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:I have to say I didn't like the tone of the mail.
If you don't want stuff like that to happen then take better control of your game. Damn CCP. What did it say? Basically that we knowingly used an exploit of the game and went against the EULA terms and conditions, and that we shouldnGÇÿt do it again. Not our fault they canGÇÿt run a game properly... Wow accusing players of violating EULA when it was a claim button that they put in the game and seemed to be working just like the rest of the claim buttons. This is just a **** move CCP, way to try to pass the buck to the players when you are the screw up. Now being unpaid bug testers comes with getting accused of being a cheater. That's standard protocol from the legal department to cover all the bases. This is a bulk mail and it's possible someone may have quickly set up a macro to attempt to redeem more suits.
Don't take it personally.
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:08:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote: That's standard protocol from the legal department to cover all the bases. This is a bulk mail and it's possible someone may have quickly set up a macro to attempt to redeem more suits.
Don't take it personally.
I don't take it personally at all I just think it makes CCP look like a joke. First of all if you read the referenced section of the EULA it was not broken in any way by any one. Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. No one used any of the listed items or did anything other than take part in a function of the game which they set forth by CCP. I would argue that a claim button which was put in place by CCP and accessible to everyone in the game could also be perceived as normal game play by any player. There are no legal bases to cover as no one spent or lost any money and CCP simply reversed a bug which they caused. This was just a case of someone being butt hurt over having to clean up a mess and venting it on the player base. That is a new low. "Someone being butt hurt...and venting it on the player base."
Please don't assume things or attitudes of people. It makes you look like a jerk. Think about the situation logically, people claimed an item that people have always payed money for in the past. The sudden influx of these items for free arguably devalues the purchase paying players made. There has never been a precedent of CCP giving items away like this in-game. Claiming of "Free Apex" suits were not talked about in the patch notes. And bugs do occur on patch day--I always recommend to people to be extra careful on what you trade on patch day.
CCP had the ability to see who pushed the redeem button and they could follow those item transfers. Yes, there was collateral damage of removing those suits, but they needed to be taken back. There are no free lunches here.
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:15:00 -
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S-PANZA wrote:The way I see it, CCP should just have apologized for the inconvenience and removed the suit.
Instead of making accusations and threats of having violated the EULA.
This suit was made available through an in game progression by CCP, if anything ... instead of violations having been committed it would better be described as a solid case of ENTRAPMENT. Don't take it as a personal accusation. It's a blanket statement, one that is much more cost/time effective to make rather than sending out personalized emails.
Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Fact is, macros and bots scripts exist for the PS3 and PC emulators. There is no ways to say 'beyond a shadow of doubt' as Maken put it that players wrote macros to quickly take advantage of the APEX redeem glitch.
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:34:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. No one used any of the listed items... No one can be absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one used these tools. There was no need to use them to claim the items and they were only claimable once per account. What this means is even if someone did use them it did not give anything at an accelerated rate and therefore still did not violate this section. If people were using multiple accounts then that is something different completely and should be addressed on those extra accounts not in a rage mail sent out to the entire population. It's a bit more difficult to spot people using bots to run macros gathering items off multiple accounts and PS3s. Namely, it's pretty standard practice for botters to send a percentage of their gains to random accounts (implication collateral damage). It's done as a way to cause more headache for people investigating botters to discern good player from exploiters with the eventual goal of getting people that investigate exploits to simply give up.
The solution is to alter game mechanics that make it less lucrative to make farm bots in the first place. In Dust, we need to axe the passive item accrual of the Warbarge.
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:37:00 -
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Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:I wouldn't hold your breath to be honest. CCP has always had a soft spot for scammers and bad trades. Claiming it's part of the culture, now their just getting into the action I suppose.
That said we still haven't gotten any kind of reimbursement from the last 20hr or so server crash either and the Dev's have been awfully silent on the whole affair. Dev responses in general, at least official ones about the game have been pretty sparse of late.
Not true. Please read.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=209876&find=unread
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:51:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:I have no problem with them being taken back and I intentionally stayed away from selling these to people.
Actually your mention of collateral damage explains exactly what happened here. I have not spoken to anyone in game about it but I am assuming CCP did not bother reversing trades that were done for these so people are in fact out real money. This is even more of an issue as now CCP is referencing a point in the EULA that does not even apply to cover for the fact that they could not even clean up their mess in its entirety.
Here is what the message really reads: "Sorry you traded boosters and isk and paid suits for suits that we took away but you are screwed. We have deleted these suits to ensure people will give us as much money as possible but will not clean up totally behind ourselves."
Anyone that lost real items on this is 100% entitled to call Sony and get a refund as there was no violation of the EULA and CCP has now revoked the by product of the money that was spent.
What you're asking for is a lot more difficult to track and time intensive to rectify.
Under the current APEX suit removal process. [CCP Checks to see which account pressed the redeem button] > [determine location of APEX suit] > [Remove Item] > [Redeemed suit not on account] > [follow redeemed item tag] > [Remove Item]
Cross Checking ISK and Item exchanges player may have made for an APEX suit. [Same process as above] > [Employee must individually investigate ISK transfers or Item transfers and make a judgement call or contact players to determine if the progression tab redeemed APEX was traded for ISK, another item, or just gifted]
Cross checking, while a solution that would probably appease players, is not the optimal approach here with limited dev resources. The APEX removal script is the better path here, even with collateral damage involved.
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:58:00 -
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Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:And if you are spending real money on your farming accounts to increase your rank faster, well CCP makes money at least. This statement is the reason why paying botters feel entitled to keep farming. They've payed the company and feel entitled for protection not to have their operations messed with.
Ultimately, the practice of large scale farming is not good for the health of the game. The only way to be relevant in industry and trading is to pay for equipment and unlocking accounts.
This is going to be even more of an issue once Chinese Gold farmers start coming on board with the console ban lifting. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206339&find=unread
There is an RMT market for Dust. It's only going to expand if CCP doesn't address issues with passive item gains.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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