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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.24 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:a 33% chance of butthurt and will respawn with an AV weapon
33%? Try more like 60%...
But really, Rattati seems very slow to react to the vehicle meta. I mean, I get there are buttholes that keep lobbying to keep their murderdeathinvicomachines (looking at some Madrugar advocates right now, as there were some ADS advocates before) but most aren't that way. Rattati just seems to take forever deciding on what to do with vehicles.
I mean, Madrugars have been stupidly OP for months now, but not a peep from him about a possible solution. Dropships in general have suffered for a long time now, even with the Swarm range reduction they're plenty capable of causing bowel loosening terror in all but the best of the best pilots.
Essentially, even though Rattati has commented about DS ills before, don't expect anything any time soon, because vehicles rate a fraction of his attention compared to even a single gun...or at least it looks that way to a vehicle user (because we rarely see him commenting on vehicles.)
/halfrant...
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.24 22:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Stuff
Yeah, I know.
It's mostly the silence surrounding vehicles, especially around the ADS, that is frustrating.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 01:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vlad Rostok wrote:And you're surprised by this? A self professed non-gun carrier like yourself? All you can see is your lack of dropship fun. Perhaps you should consider the non-fun that the infantry you mercilessly slaughter are having.
+Ēs someone who would very much like a reason to get in his ADS again, I find that dropships are very easy to drive off. Get a Commando with the kind of guns you like, equip one and put a Swarm on. You'll knock about any DS that comes near, get a bunch of WP from it and make their gametime a frustrating exercise in futility.
Actually killing things from the pilot's seat of an ADS is not easy: a friend of mine has skilled some way into Pythons, as a casual, investigative kind of way. He's lucky to get assists, let alone kills. By the way some people present it all you need to do is buy an ADS and your KDR skyrockets to 2,500.0, but that simply isn't the case.
ADSs that continuously harass an entire enemy team are not the average pilot, they are the ones that have spent literally years flying and fighting against AV weapons balanced against HAVs.* Have you considered the non-fun that the pilots that aren't super-incredi-awesome have when even a single Swarmer pops up, barely rendering, and swats them about with next to no effort required.
Swings and roundabouts. What is pretty clear is that there needs to be distinction between anti-HAV weapons and anti-light vehicle weapons.
*Please note, I'm not saying that I'm that good, simply that those kinds of pilots are not the average, they are the tippy-top of the pilot totem pole.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 11:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:... with lower kill counts than the average dropsuit user...
Makes me wonder what you consider "OP".
AV users like me clean them out like a preschool trip to a candy store.
I've only seen one tank so far, that could evade the AV shots I put at it, but it did so by running around the field like a chicken with it's head cut off.
Want to share your magic techniques? Without the use of AV grenades a solo AV will pretty much never take down a half awake Maddy, let alone a decent operator.
Forge Guns are pretty much incapable of soloing Maddies at all; PLCs not even slightly; Swarms, maybe if you chase them down with Lai Dai Packed, but far from easy/guaranteed; Proxy Mines are so easily avoided it's ridiculous; Packed REs are incredibly hard to apply to a half decent operator; and AV grenades are good for short range burst damage, but they're only good at spitting distance.
So while it is potentially possible to kill Madrugars, it is far from likely for any given AVer and will likely take 2-3 to have a chance. Then consider that due to some broken mechanic you rarely actually get WP for damaging them, and AV isn't properly rewarded for trying to deal with them.
Is it possible to deal with Madrugars? Yes. Are they killing everything ever? No.
But when they don't have a reasonable chance of death against 2+ AVers, something is wrong. This is pretty much identical to 1.7, and ADSs then too. ADSs right now are at least balanced with FGs, even Swarms as far as actual damage output is concerned - it's the Swarm's application that skews the balance way in their favour.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Eh I don't know what your smoking but swarms do not always hit. You can very easily out run them if your already moving in a DS when they are fired. It also only takes a half decent pilot to go behind a hill, building or even just another person to have the missiles explode prematurely. Added to that the complete lack of anti infantry ability on swarms with the huge kill me please visual missile trail makes swarms a pretty suicidal and largely ineffective type of AV. If your not running a commando for the reload bonus you pretty much have no chance at taking down any kind of DS with swarms before they run away and every time you fire the entire enemy team pretty much knows exactly where you are and the fact your an easy kill because your using a AV suit.
Out running them is being driven off, you're not contributing to the fight any more; hiding behind a building rarely stops volleys that are in the air, unless you're already hogging cover - which is fine but severely limits what you can actually accomplish while often making you vulnerable to FG/Rails.
And while Commandos are still less effective than Assaults, primarily, they can hold their own a lot better nowadays - I know, it's my primary suit.
BARAGAMOS wrote:Honestly a wall of text to say something inane, like a Swarm launcher always hits....
Basically. Swarms have next to no issue landing shots against DSs.
Also, you might want to reconsider what you think a wall of text is. Because my previous post was punctuated and had line breaks. And wasn't especially long.
BARAGAMOS wrote:Not even close. Everything on cluttered maps stop them and a [bADS flies faster away than they seek it.[/b]
Not even close. Swarms were buffed to have a higher top speed than an ADS. The main reason DSs can escape is that they can reach the 400m mark before the Swarms can close the distance. Which also means that that DS has been driven off successfully for at least 10+ seconds where it is not participating in any meaningful manner - it all be dropping off/picking up no troops, nor firing at enemies.
BARAGAMOS wrote:The purpose of the Swarms is to keep Vehicles from dominating he battlefield.
This is a ground combat game and is centered on that.
Vehicles augment that strategy. Swarms/AVG are the only thing that keeps the game from devolving into that.
Ah of course, because warfare doesn't involve vehicles in any meaningful manner 
Your definition of ground combat is 'infantry combat' - that is majorly different from what DUST is; which is a combined arms game. CoD Modern Warfare is a ground combat game with no vehicles, or more reasonably identified as an infantry combat game: Battlefield is a series that involves ground combat game heavily that includes the extensive use of vehicles, both ground and aerial; Dust is far more akin to Battlefield in overall feel than CoD.
Anyway Swarms are not the only AV weapon. But they are by far and away the most commonly used because they are so simply a baby could use them.
BARAGAMOS wrote:To be honest, I know a lot of guys like padding their K/D with ADS, but they were not meant to kill or suppress an entire area. They are transport units capable of knocking guys off high ground. Right now on most large maps they can camp an open area and unless you get out the av your team can't cross it. Light weapons don't damage them so AV is really the only answer...so it should ******* kill them. Not like the average suit guy can.
ADSs do not suppress or kill an entire area, unless they are allowed to by being utterly ignored. A single Swarmer will give an ADS hell and keep them readily in check.
Really though, what is difference between an ADS 'camping/suppressing/killing' an area and a Sniper who has the same area zoned in and kills those same people running across open ground? Your Rifles aren't killing either of them, and both of them are capable of killing the infantry. Obviously there are huge differences in approach, but the principle is basically the same.
And I must point out: I,personally, have not said anything about AV not being allowed/able to kill DSs, simply that Swarms are overly effective at denying airspace to a DS for the effort that the user has to put in. I am all for buffing relevant aspect of the Swarm Launcher in exchange for other aspects (such as aiming) being made a requisite.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 16:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote: I can contrive situations as well if you like where the swarms always miss. The reality is I see maybe 1/5 DS actually get shot down.
*sigh* I hate arguing with Swarm apologists...
Thing is, AV gets rewarded for causing damage - causing vehicles (that aren't Madrugars) to retreat - where vehicles do not, they only get WP for actual kills. The point of that is that AV doesn't need to kill to be worthwhile.
AVers can kill vehicles, and AVers do kill vehicles. That doesn't mean that they should render a vehicle useless without effort.
And again, I'm not arguing for a flying tank, I want a DS that is relevant in a fight. I'm fine with dropships being eminently killable, but at the same time paying 350k+ ISK per ship is extortionate. The issue is that ADSs are not worth 350k+ per ship: either they should come down in price to match their capabilities, or be increased in capabilities to match their cost.
Give me a flimsy as **** ship that I can lose twelve in a battle and still make a small profit - exactly like a Dropsuit can. I'm fine dying a lot,I just want to enjoy my role.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 16:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Define support. Then explain how it is worth that much WP/SP/ISK for the effort.
I'm glad you agree they're too expensive, because without slaying as an option (and why not?!) the WP gain of a DS pilot is abysmal.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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