DUST Search - so swarmlaunchers

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

BARAGAMOS wrote:

I can contrive situations as well if you like where the swarms always miss. The reality is I see maybe 1/5 DS actually get shot down.

*sigh* I hate arguing with Swarm apologists...

Thing is, AV gets rewarded for causing damage - causing vehicles (that aren't Madrugars) to retreat - where vehicles do not, they only get WP for actual kills. The point of that is that AV doesn't need to kill to be worthwhile.

AVers can kill vehicles, and AVers do kill vehicles. That doesn't mean that they should render a vehicle useless without effort.

And again, I'm not arguing for a flying tank, I want a DS that is relevant in a fight. I'm fine with dropships being eminently killable, but at the same time paying 350k+ ISK per ship is extortionate. The issue is that ADSs are not worth 350k+ per ship: either they should come down in price to match their capabilities, or be increased in capabilities to match their cost.

Give me a flimsy as **** ship that I can lose twelve in a battle and still make a small profit - exactly like a Dropsuit can. I'm fine dying a lot,I just want to enjoy my role.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.24 21:43:00 - [1] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: a 33% chance of butthurt and will respawn with an AV weapon 33%? Try more like 60%... But really, Rattati seems very slow to react to the vehicle meta. I mean, I get there are buttholes that keep lobbying to keep their murderdeathinvicomachines (looking at some Madrugar advocates right now, as there were some ADS advocates before) but most aren't that way. Rattati just seems to take forever deciding on what to do with vehicles. I mean, Madrugars have been stupidly OP for months now, but not a peep from him about a possible solution. Dropships in general have suffered for a long time now, even with the Swarm range reduction they're plenty capable of causing bowel loosening terror in all but the best of the best pilots. Essentially, even though Rattati has commented about DS ills before, don't expect anything any time soon, because vehicles rate a fraction of his attention compared to even a single gun...or at least it looks that way to a vehicle user (because we rarely see him commenting on vehicles.) /halfrant... Rattati literally feeds off of constructive forum input, especially when someone decides to be hella helpful and do the math to back their assertions. There is zero guarantee he will accept it, you can see shades of End-User input in every decision, and we've seen him fall back on player ideas. The reason, my guess would be, is with Vehicle meta changes it takes a lot more effort to sift through the bullsh** and find the stuff that will help. His tank tier/tiericide thread had literally forty pages of spkr4thedead and a few select individuals shouting down anyone who tried to contribute. Makes it a nightmare pain in the ass to get useful feedback in that mess. And bluntly, Tankers and pilots need to speak up and front their own ideas, math and input, because thus far it's either been lacking or from sources who take other peoples' work, twist it out of context or flat alter it to suit their designs. ADS and dropship pilots flatly refuse to help give me enough info to do the math that would be needed FOR them. I'm not out to get HAV drivers but FFS, there's not going to be a healthy meta discussion if no one can come to an agreement where to start. And if guys like me are the only ones providing the kind of detailed feedback about HAVs/Derpships/whatever how the hell is Rattati supposed to sift up a valid counterpoint that he can test against mine and his own theories, findings and recommendations? I want HAVs to be powerful, yeah, but I don't necessarily want it "my way, right away." I'm just pushy as hell. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.24 22:07:00 - [2] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: assault dropships still have an extremely important roll. the control of high ground through uplink placement and destruction. in a PC match players use that high ground to spawn and seed the low ground with uplinks, having those reserve links high up proteccts them from infantry but not ADS. of course in pubs your average joe is likely to just sit up on the high ground wasting the advantage for some extra kills and probably diddnt bring more upllinks to seed the objectives with but in a high tier battle its almost essential to have an ADS pilot capable of giving you that position and keeping it. so despite their uselessness as a slaying machine its become more of a support role, reliant on a smart team to be useful. used properly htey are preetty powerful and this is why PC teams tend to refund ADS losses to pilots who provide this servace. Plus a good ADS pilot who isn't triggerhappy can do all sorts of neat things, like sneak up on me while I'm trying to kill a tank and murdering me before the shadow passing under me fully registers. There's a few ADS pilots out there I have to give props to. they either will not die, or they actually managed to get me before I lobbed a shot off at them. More than once. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.24 22:56:00 - [3] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Stuff Yeah, I know. It's mostly the silence surrounding vehicles, especially around the ADS, that is frustrating. Edit: I can't even remember the last time Rattati actually talked about the ADS - or even the current Madrugar situation - aside from a half recent (like, six months ago) and nebulous comment about working on stuff. Bluntly if I were in his shoes I'd be reluctant to give a crap. Hell, I'm about burned out on it myself. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.25 16:37:00 - [4] - Quote They'd die a lot more if framerate and hit detection didn't cause forge gun aim to be all herky-jerky and sh*t. But that applies to literally every weapon/dropsuit/tank/insertfavoritethinghere WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.25 16:40:00 - [5] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: I can contrive situations as well if you like where the swarms always miss. The reality is I see maybe 1/5 DS actually get shot down. sigh I hate arguing with Swarm apologists... Thing is, AV gets rewarded for causing damage - causing vehicles (that aren't Madrugars) to retreat - where vehicles do not, they only get WP for actual kills. The point of that is that AV doesn't need to kill to be worthwhile. AVers can kill vehicles, and AVers do kill vehicles. That doesn't mean that they should render a vehicle useless without effort. And again, I'm not arguing for a flying tank, I want a DS that is relevant in a fight. I'm fine with dropships being eminently killable, but at the same time paying 350k+ ISK per ship is extortionate. The issue is that ADSs are not worth 350k+ per ship: either they should come down in price to match their capabilities, or be increased in capabilities to match their cost. Give me a flimsy as **** ship that I can lose twelve in a battle and still make a small profit - exactly like a Dropsuit can. I'm fine dying a lot,I just want to enjoy my role. A lot of people forget that the warpoints for damaging vehicles was a cookie given for having an average warpoint score of around what, 200-300 when you go full-crazy on an AV role. Back when you actually had to KILL to get WP, it wasn't added to justify relegating AV to deterrence. It was added to address a very real value-imbalance in actual gameplay. And yes, I think vehicles are too expensive. I also think that as a role they need to be sustainable but die at a rate akin to dropsuits K/D-wise. Sustainable to LOSE at that K/D rate. If it's not sustainable and it's not disposable, it's not really a DUST role, it's a power up. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.