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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
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Posted - 2015.07.15 12:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:If a swarm nerf/overhaul happens (which most people I've talked to support) then Incubus' would be truly out of hand.
That depends entirely on the nature of any Swarm modifications. I have been vehement in my support of a change to make Swarms more like dumb-fired AV grenades (in application) which would go hand in hand with things like a velocity increase, as well as providing skilful players the ability to preempt enemy vehicles and actually fire around corners.
A change to Swarm operation doesn't inherently mean making them do only 4 damage per missile, there are other balancing points.
On the topic at hand, Incubi have the great advantage of permanent regen, which is also why Madrugars are so favoured at the moment. Basically, they don't need to leave an area to repair,they can stay and fight - against one fully specced up Swarmed they'll likely die (seriously, Wiyrkomis do redonkulous damage: 312*4*1.2*1.15 = 1722 per volley before damage mods or Commando; MinCom ca now do 2233 per volley to armour.)
But really, the big issue is that shields are crap. The only Python fit is use much of any more is a double hardened one for clearing out uplink hotspots and basically never engage anything without my hardeners running. I don't really use the Incubus much either, mostly because I dislike the Missile on it (because the Blaster should be the go to AP weapon, but it's crap) and find there's only one real fit.
Anyway, I disagree that Incubi are there only viable ADS, on the principle that ADS aren't really that viable outside of very specific circumstances due to uplinks and AV essentially removing any purpose they could have.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:A drop ship should die from 3 proto swarm volleys. Especially considering we only have BASIC tier dropships currently.
Dropships are not meant to be flying tanks.
By that logic, ADSs should be far tougher than DSs, since they are essentially T2 hulls.
In other words it's a dumb statement. Dying from three volleys will be fine once DSs can do something other than: get hit - attempt to flee because they know what's coming - still get hit - die.
ADSs surviving three Swarm volleys is currently reasonable because there is no escaping. Even the full-on flight that pilots undertake when they receive fire is only somewhat better than death - a Swarmer firing at an ADS will likely reap 75-150 WP from them and get them to leave the battle for 20-60 second, even if they don't come close to killing them, simply because an ADS cannot afford to stay in an area with AV for longer than 5 seconds.
Your proclaimed semi-invincible Incubus is nothing of the sort. PRO Swarms demolish any ADS that isn't hardened (either killing it, or getting rewarded and forcing it to flee) and even hardened ones must retreat after a very short period of time.
And as touched on before, the issue with swarms isn't the damage, it's the application. This is one of the reasons I find your V/AV balancing threads so dumb, because they miss the whole point of the issue so commonly.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 21:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darth, I find that it doesn't matter what speed the dropships is going with regards the collision. Pythons take tons of damage, even at barely above stationary and Incubi take barely any at full tilt.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 22:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Darth, I find that it doesn't matter what speed the dropships is going with regards the collision. Pythons take tons of damage, even at barely above stationary and Incubi take barely any at full tilt. You are 100% correct, of course. Not only are Pythons weak in general, they take far to much of a beating from small bumps and scrapes. I'm not trying to say Caldari collision mechanics are fine, because they clearly are not, but rather that it makes sense to me that they would take slightly more damage from said bumps than their bulky cousin. The Python is still semi-broken, we're just debating how far the break goes 
Oh, for sure. Though if we follow some of the EVE logic, armour is weaker to Kinetic damage whereas shields are stronger. This, if we apply it to collision should really mean that shields are better off in a collision where armour should actually be worse off than now.
Lore-wise, this could be justified by saying that the shields are far easier to 'revert to full/proper' status/shape/whatever.
Not saying that armour should take as much as shields do currently, but armour should - overall - take more damage from a collision than shields.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't see a particular issue, gameplay wise - I'm not suggesting they swap. Regardless, I've taken us off topic.
Nerfing Incubi doesn't solve anything. Buffing Pythons, reasonably, does.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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