DUST Search - Tactics and crutches: An open discusion

PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:

If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play.

If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play.

All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently.

Why is using RE's as a primary crutch play? My gun game sucks and I'm not afraid to admit it. So if I can lure you into a trap and blow you up with an RE, I'm going to do it. Over, and over, and over, and over again. Because on an Adv Cal Logi suit, I can throw out 90 RE's without having to hit a supply depot. If it will help my team win, I will absolutely spam the **** out of it.

You have convinced me differently, its so many things to cover but using traps is tactical. Are you trying to improve your gungame? I admit my gungame sucks as well but i want to be able to kill someone with my gun if needed. As a scout i can only engage certain targets safely, other scouts usually or weakened distracted targets. Safe is a relative term considering i operate where persistent reds are.

The logi is a super weak HP class. So as scout, you have to kill quickly cause its guaranteed they'll kill you. I'm mainly talking about that assault on reps and will core nade you EVERY TIME you encounter him. Shutting engagements down is for weaker classes, not some guy you won't even try to shoot back.

So i salute you, cal logi is rare, o7. And slay well.

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Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 935	Posted - 2015.06.23 20:30:00 - [1] - Quote TL;DR scroll down When I first learned of the game dust514, it's connectivity to Eve online, and the brief but explosive discription that my buddies used to describe the game. My first thought was "GTFOH, there's no way?!". However, the game did indeed exist! Some of the concepts were incomplete and under development, but the game itself was real. I couldn't believe it! An FPS that wasn't COD-like! There was tactics involved, massive customization, team work and communication, and all on the PS3 for free! I downloaded the game, and man what a learning curve?! However, I thought "well a game like this is worth the work". There's guys helping me out, and working with me to use tactics in battle. As a soldier in the real world to find this level of tactical play had only ever existed in games like socom and maybe a few PC shooters. This game brought all a FPS player could hope for into one game! So, fast forward two years. After years of fighting, posting, requesting, arguing, and downright petitioning to keep the game online and alive. The community has become... well split. There are different classes of players and corps playing the game now. A ton of players have given up playing for many different reasons. The game, to me personally, feels stale, but has it's moments. Plagued with issues, both in-game and mechanics related, the game now suffers from a lack of players, and the tactical gameplay part has been replaced by the fotm twitch gameplay style. Now while CCP Rattati, thank god for him, has vowed to renew dust514, and bring it to a new tactical shooter level. The question I want to pose to you, the community, is this.... What do you guys prefer? A tactical shooter full of teamwork, strategy, and hardworking over time, or (in my opinion) easy-mode fotm spam gameplay lacking any real depth? I mean the latter is what dust514 has become. I enjoy being asked to THINK in a video game, or any past time activity. I think having a job in real life that wasn't challenging is not living, but that's just me. Dust514, right now, is all about dealing the most dmg first. There is no real strategy anymore. Yes, in PC you must have a general gameplan for deployment blah, blah, blah, but generally who ever produced the most lag wins?! Let's be honest for a second. The PC community, for lack of a better more creative name for them, has been campaigning to get more players into playing PC right? Well, to some degree, that did happen. Some teams stepped up, but quickly learned that proficiency 5 was not enough to get it done.... neither was sound tactics... or skill?! Right now if you want to win at PC you must be laggy. If you control the lag most players on the enemy team just simply can't fight back. To be fair, not all matches are laggy, but in the spirit of fairness most of the matches that take place have lagged severely at one point or another. So, a merc would ask the question: How do I play it then? Bradric, from what you're saying I could be tactical, skillful, and good at teamwork, but get rekted because of lag. Yes this is true. Putting a team member in position only works when he can see what he's doing, hit the enemy, and move his toon. A ton of players who have played dust, regardless of mode, can attest to the fact that when lagging in this game you're usually facing common names. This brings me to the crutches part of our discussion! In theory, a player should be able to log onto the dust514 server, equipped with a Sony Playstation 3 controller, and Play this tactical, highly customizable, first person shooter with friends. This player will at first struggle to perform on the field due to low skill points accrued, but if he sticks with it in time he will gather enough to specialize into the skill tree. He should be able to team up with friends, use tactics like flanking, vehicle deployment, cover fire, ambushing, area of operation pushes, and while the game is still in the balancing phase, it generally works as intended. The more SP accrued the more a player can do, right? Some players except this concept, enjoy the idea, and play the game as intended by the developers. Some players.... aren't tactical?! They don't communicate well, have zero people skills, and even less patience. They want to win. That's it. They don't want a challenge, they want control. They want to troll other players... I don't get it either?! They want to simply win the game... but what is winning at dust? These players decided "forget the skill tree". I don't want to wait to get the points needed. I don't want to work with others.... in a tactical shooter? (Clearly they don't understand the concept of the game). These players want to win! They want to never have to have help. They want to beat the odds at all times. They want to be able to kill a whole squad by themselves. And you know what? In dust, if you're tactical enough, you can! That's the beauty of it! However, for this player, that's not enough. They want it now! Or atleast, this is my opinion. I see tons of different types of players in this game. The casuals, the tactical, the loner, the hardcore, the way to serious (tryhard, neckbeard, no sleep, no job, no life, no d**k), and many others. TL;DR From you guys opinion. What do you see? Where do you fall? What do you think this game's gameplay should be based on? Should tactics be the deciding factor of any battle, or should players just be able to buy modded controller's and "I win button"? Personally I thought that's what COD was for? Imo dust514 battle outcomes should be decided by the teamwork and tactics of the teams. Not lag, outside of game mechanics, broken in-game mechanics, or fotm spam. Don't crucify me I'm just voicing an opinion. CCP Rattati already clarified what direction he's taking the game. I'm just curious about how, you, the individual players see things. Comment sensibly below. Happy hunting o7 "Anybody order chaos?"
bathtubist Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 130	Posted - 2015.06.23 20:48:00 - [2] - Quote Im not even sure anymore so many damn equipment weps and explosive COUGH RE'S COUGH need to be nerfed more restrictions for the commando to not wield a damn sniper a damn sniper why the hell are u sniping WITH A ******* COMMANDO but that is just the problem the damage they dish out and continue doing that over and over again like u said in your post some peeps like to one man army almost everydamn match with losing alot of clones I just want the damn game to be tactical really no need to turn around brother ur friendly logi bathtubist is repping ya
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2015.06.23 20:58:00 - [3] - Quote I'm a very casual player due to RL. I occationally squad up (during the weekends), but usually I enjoy a couple of games (max) solo during the week. I think even solo you can find (and use) tactics in Dust, and I tend to view each match as a game of chess. They make their move, you try to counter. They counter our counter move, and so on. When playing solo I try and see what role the team needs for the moment, and switch to that. It could be uplink scout, logi, heavy or anything really. With roghly 53mil SP I'm quite versatile. Of course, I fully understand the difficulty of new players who do not yet have this luxury. My biggest frustration right now is people giving up and leaving game. I just had a Domination game where our team captured the objective and entrenched ourselves quite good. The opposing team kept good pressure on us until about 2-3 minutes into the game... Then half the team left which resulted in a redline and stomp. Personally, if I was on the enemy team I would cloak up with a scout with flux grenades and flaylock pistol to try and sneak in and take out as many uplinks and nanohives as possible. Would have been a guaranteed suicide run, but worth it if it meant the main force could breach the objective. But I guess it's better to leave?
PARKOUR PRACTIONER D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2015.06.23 21:06:00 - [4] - Quote If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play. If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play. All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently. Matari In-Game & Out Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can Training again... Lets do this
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 936	Posted - 2015.06.23 23:56:00 - [5] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play. If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play. All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently. I agree with trying to counter something with bright ideas, but alot of these tactics become the new focus. Like that cal facility map where almost every player just wants to take to the rafters and camp. They don't even care if they're winning or losing. They just want to camp?! You spend the entire match flying back up there to get some nuisance with a mass driver down over and over?! Also, the logis that only care about repping. They aren't really helping the team repping shield suits in the open, but they rep on in hopes that you take dmg at some point?! Some are repping you long before you even meet enemy contact?! They have no intention of fighting the enemy, but instead just want points. The thing that annoys me the most is turbo/modded controller users, and the laggy players that make the whole game all wierd?! Is that really necessary? I mean are you so afraid of losing that you're willing to essentially cheat to win? Those guys that put out 2k+ dmg in one mag because they use the controller to reduce the recoil that the weapon is supposed to have?! I mean I got it... it's an advantage that gets you kills. You obviously wasn't getting them before, or you wouldn't need the controller. I mean I could go on all day, but you get the jist. I'm just glad CCP RattatI is looking into turning this game back tactical in terms of movement speed. There's no reason anyone should be assaulting 3 man teams head on, killing 2, and surviving the engagement without some type of assistance. Those guys that dance around in the open, and come out unscathed while 3 guys were shooting at him. Scouts that run through point blank range hmg fire? It's just all gotten a little ridiculous in my book. "Anybody order chaos?"
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 912	Posted - 2015.06.24 00:11:00 - [6] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play. If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play. All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently. Why is using RE's as a primary crutch play? My gun game sucks and I'm not afraid to admit it. So if I can lure you into a trap and blow you up with an RE, I'm going to do it. Over, and over, and over, and over again. Because on an Adv Cal Logi suit, I can throw out 90 RE's without having to hit a supply depot. If it will help my team win, I will absolutely spam the **** out of it. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
DeadlyAztec11 Defenders of the Helghast Dream 8	Posted - 2015.06.24 00:35:00 - [7] - Quote Dust 514 does not require more tactics then Call of Duty. What makes Dust:514 different is the strategies used by players to improve their abilities by using skill points. Tactics in mind, Call of Duty is harsher because death is quick so one often has to think about decisions many steps in advanced and retreating during a fight is almost impossible outside of cover. Latency is an issue in all games and is especially noticeable in Dust during certain hours relative to the player. This is caused by the relatively small community. Currently the biggest challenge is that new players are placed against players with much stronger equipment. Even if the new players have higher skills the veterans will still win most of the time because of their equipment. This is where tactics are diminished. Usually a new player is useless on the battlefield until they can acquire sufficient skill points. Even after selecting a role, players will still need to skill into other roles to be able to fight a variety of strategies employed by their opposition. Though, it wasn't always so. During open beta we all started on equal footing. Many of us continued to use militia weapons even after acquiring advanced gear. It was not until Uprising that militia gear was deposed of by the majority of experienced players. The game is much more difficult for new players than it was when I first spawned. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.24 00:59:00 - [8] - Quote Good posts. I can add that whole domination is a home for crutch plays. Home for snipers, all sort of campers and fotm followers. Dust turned into super mario bros recently, that's bad as well. Overall there is many problems, some are easy to fix, other more complex. Modded controllers for example. I can see to ways of fixing this. - change scr heat build up from per second to per shot - both scr and tac ar should have very noticeable recoil and dispresion when hip firing Ps. Though i'm not saint myself as i've used super mario bros fits, using something rarely isn't as bad as using something game breaking in every battle. Loyal to The State Member of : State Protectorate Belongs to : Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 937	Posted - 2015.06.24 02:11:00 - [9] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust 514 does not require more tactics then Call of Duty. What makes Dust:514 different is the strategies used by players to improve their abilities by using skill points. Tactics in mind, Call of Duty is harsher because death is quick so one often has to think about decisions many steps in advanced and retreating during a fight is almost impossible outside of cover. Latency is an issue in all games and is especially noticeable in Dust during certain hours relative to the player. This is caused by the relatively small community. Currently the biggest challenge is that new players are placed against players with much stronger equipment. Even if the new players have higher skills the veterans will still win most of the time because of their equipment. This is where tactics are diminished. Usually a new player is useless on the battlefield until they can acquire sufficient skill points. Even after selecting a role, players will still need to skill into other roles to be able to fight a variety of strategies employed by their opposition. Though, it wasn't always so. During open beta we all started on equal footing. Many of us continued to use militia weapons even after acquiring advanced gear. It was not until Uprising that militia gear was deposed of by the majority of experienced players. The game is much more difficult for new players than it was when I first spawned. Well let's first let me clarify what I mean when I say tactics. I break down "tactics" to my guys far too much in their opinions lol! Most think tactics are simply positioning on the field, but it could be so much more depending on your outlook. Tactics starts with positioning and support yes, but what can also be thrown in there is setup, communication ofcourse, and understanding of the field asymmetrically. Suit setups complimenting one another is a huge tactics bonus that most players don't use! I'm not talking about them all running min assaults lol! Not talking about heavies and logis?! I mean armor weapon/shield weapon, speed/tank, scanner/needle, etc. To use tactics one must consider every possible Avenue or angle of approach. That's why I like the fact that you can buy a respec! I've been able to test and use literally every dropsuit and vehicle in the game! It helped me find what was best for me, but furthermore mad me a guide or reference for the less experienced players in corp and alliance that I help out. That's where the fun for me lies! In building tactics, suit and vehicle customization, and seeing it all come together in execution! So what if we lose, we put up an amazing fight, and our tactics were solid. That's why we have clones right? To be able to communicate and work together to build and execute tactics on the battlefield is why I play dust, but that has all but been replaced by bs gimmicks?! I am hopeful for the next update, as always, and the changes to the game it will bring. "Anybody order chaos?"
Balamob Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 61	Posted - 2015.06.24 04:38:00 - [10] - Quote I can tell that im a solo player and helping the team comes second but always a consideration. I like the aim for tactical shooter but as a solo player (which most casual players are in my perspective) is not very enjoyable. For example, being on many situations on pub matches where i que with a bunch of randoms with a couple of vets vs few randoms plus two full squads of proto vets that will tear us apart, dont know how the matchmaking deals with squads but thats a match that you can already know how the odds are gonna pul, sadly in the end comes to the stompers and those being stomped, no middle point in most matches. Many will say that i should get into squad but sometimes i just want to be on my own and have some fun just 1 match before doind other things, isnt against the rules, but most of the time if you are not in a squad you-¦ll lose, all this is in my experience. As a side note, i dont have "the social skills" in most situations being in real life or in game, so the squading up is something i have to deal with and in a way something new, i try anyway. Assault ak.0, Sentinel ak.0, Scout ak.0.

PARKOUR PRACTIONER D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2015.06.24 07:07:00 - [11] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play. If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play. All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently. Why is using RE's as a primary crutch play? My gun game sucks and I'm not afraid to admit it. So if I can lure you into a trap and blow you up with an RE, I'm going to do it. Over, and over, and over, and over again. Because on an Adv Cal Logi suit, I can throw out 90 RE's without having to hit a supply depot. If it will help my team win, I will absolutely spam the **** out of it. You have convinced me differently, its so many things to cover but using traps is tactical. Are you trying to improve your gungame? I admit my gungame sucks as well but i want to be able to kill someone with my gun if needed. As a scout i can only engage certain targets safely, other scouts usually or weakened distracted targets. Safe is a relative term considering i operate where persistent reds are. The logi is a super weak HP class. So as scout, you have to kill quickly cause its guaranteed they'll kill you. I'm mainly talking about that assault on reps and will core nade you EVERY TIME you encounter him. Shutting engagements down is for weaker classes, not some guy you won't even try to shoot back. So i salute you, cal logi is rare, o7. And slay well. Matari In-Game & Out Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can Training again... Lets do this
PARKOUR PRACTIONER D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2015.06.24 07:09:00 - [12] - Quote Balamob wrote: I can tell that im a solo player and helping the team comes second but always a consideration. I like the aim for tactical shooter but as a solo player (which most casual players are in my perspective) is not very enjoyable. For example, being on many situations on pub matches where i que with a bunch of randoms with a couple of vets vs few randoms plus two full squads of proto vets that will tear us apart, dont know how the matchmaking deals with squads but thats a match that you can already know how the odds are gonna pull, sadly in the end comes to the stompers and those being stomped, no middle point in most matches. Many will say that i should get into squad but sometimes i just want to be on my own and have some fun just 1 match before doing other things, isnt against the rules, but most of the time if you are not in a squad you-¦ll lose, all this is in my experience. As a side note, i dont have "the social skills" in most situations being in real life or in game, so the squading up is something i have to deal with and in a way something new, i try anyway. Same! I've been playing for two years you'd think squading up would be easy by now. I have autism though so not to keen on social stuff. Matari In-Game & Out Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can Training again... Lets do this
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 919	Posted - 2015.06.24 07:44:00 - [13] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: If im doing my job by playing towards my advantages thats not crutch-play its tactical play. If you use grenades or REs as your primary that is crutch-play. To stop the fight before it even starts just to avoid any sort of confrontation is crutch-play. If your grouped up in a narrow room and my team needs distraction to push, using REs to clear out the groups is not crutch-play its tactical play. Now using REs for 1 guy is using REs as primary, crutch-play. If you cant survive on your own without being surrounded by bodyguards its crutch-play. Narrow corridor, sent with hmg scout with REs MDs = tactical play. Open maps, cloak, RR, SCR SR (non RL) = tactical play. Camping a roof with five other people with tons of equipment = crutch-play. All of this thanks to MHO. Nothing more except how i see it, if im wrong convince me differently. Why is using RE's as a primary crutch play? My gun game sucks and I'm not afraid to admit it. So if I can lure you into a trap and blow you up with an RE, I'm going to do it. Over, and over, and over, and over again. Because on an Adv Cal Logi suit, I can throw out 90 RE's without having to hit a supply depot. If it will help my team win, I will absolutely spam the ** out of it. You have convinced me differently, its so many things to cover but using traps is tactical. Are you trying to improve your gungame? I admit my gungame sucks as well but i want to be able to kill someone with my gun if needed. As a scout i can only engage certain targets safely, other scouts usually or weakened distracted targets. Safe is a relative term considering i operate where persistent reds are. The logi is a super weak HP class. So as scout, you have to kill quickly cause its guaranteed they'll kill you. I'm mainly talking about that assault on reps and will core nade you EVERY TIME you encounter him. Shutting engagements down is for weaker classes, not some guy you won't even try to shoot back. So i salute you, cal logi is rare, o7. And slay well. Yeah, I am working on my gun game. I just can't seem to figure out these damn wiggle wiggle strafers that have become so prevelant (THAT ** is a crutch if we are talking crutches). I just know if I get into a 1 v 1 gun game against one I will lose 99% of those so i lure them into a trap instead. Hopefully once Rattati implements the strafe decrease that becomes less of an issue. On top of that, being Caldari, I am a RR guy so at close encounters I am already at a disadvantage. I do have CR at level 5 as well and if I run in a different suit (Calmando or Calassault), I am not relying on the RE's nearly as much. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.06.24 08:52:00 - [14] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Good posts. - both scr and tac ar should have very noticeable recoil and dispresion when hip firing this guy never used the TAR. the TAR already has alot of recoil and kick unless gallente assault is involved.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.24 11:08:00 - [15] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Good posts. - both scr and tac ar should have very noticeable recoil and dispresion when hip firing this guy never used the TAR. the TAR already has alot of recoil and kick unless gallente assault is involved. And the ScR has very high heat build up without the Amarr Assault....... funny huh? Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.


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