DUST Search - Sniper Rifle:

TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:

Hazma Dictace wrote:

I have focused all of my attention to the Sniper Rifle and how I can fit into an agenda based game style with a kill kill kill type of weapon. I have the best prototype weapon and most of the skills and let me just say the Sniper position is just fine. I get plenty of one-shot love and plenty of them are not even head-shots. Center Mass is very do-able and I tend to think that there is even more forgiveness while shooting some one in the back of the head, neck or shoulder blade region.
Our job also includes looking for the square dancers and to take out/down the shield of the RED one so our friendly assault specialist can whittle down the armor and then we can steal the ki....err uhhhh I mean "let him finish his job" Lol

When I play this game at launch I sincerely hope to find a good group of guys so that voice chat actually has meaning and can be used for tactics and timing. Our vantage point will seldom be seen by heavies and assault players. We can actually SCOUT and have meaningful input into the outcome of a battle. One-shots are cool and fun and make the target mad as Hek, but let's face it they are not the ONLY reason to play a Sniper.

-Cheers
Hazma Dictace

To be honest, if I'm the guy dancing with a red and you "steal a kill" from me, I'll probably thank you. Genuinely thank you. You probably saved my ass, my assets, and now I can move on to other tasks.

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[Veteran_Rafgas Joe] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 16:26:00 - [31] - Quote What i think you guys havent calculated in is high skilled players with loads of skill bonuses and highly specialized suits and mods. We dont want to go and ask for more damage and OHK sniper rifles when we dont really know how the bonuses will stack in the end. Just think of nanofibers from EvE, the bonuses might seem lame, but when its all added up in the endgame(i know there is no endgame in eve or in dust, but you know what i mean).
[Veteran_Templar Two] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 16:55:00 - [32] - Quote I am simply pointing out that SR now have more cons than pros. Top level SR is weak against low level heavy: 2 headshots needed to kill the low level heavy. This is not a matter of personal opinion: this is pure math. Do you know how many headshots we have to make to kill a militia heavy with the militia assault rifle? 19 headshots. And to kill a prototype assault with militia AR? 8 headshots.
[Veteran_N3t Hunt3r] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 17:22:00 - [33] - Quote Traynor Youngs wrote: I am getting OHK's with a militia fit but with damage mods. Train the skills that affect sniper weapon damage, fit damage mods, hit them in the head. Does enough damage to OHK assault suits. This game is not CoD where every person does the same damage with the same gun. Learn your support skills and train them that way. Then fit your suit for max damage, sacrificing tank to do so. Thats the way it works and as far as I can tell, it works well. I have managed this a few times too, got to love whoever designed those gun emplacements to put the head just above the parapet :) I still think there should be the ability to OHK something bearing in mind that if we shoot an assault suit and he runs away and reps up we get nothing for what may have been an awesome shot. #Edit# Maybe put in place a system where we earn war points for good shots, I.E. a shot made whilst the target is moving... then more points if they are running and then to top it all off a nice range bonus for example a hit at 100M+ earns 25 points. To account for the fact thats its easy to shoot someone in the face when you are running around with an assault rifle 10 m from them and somewhat harder when you have 1 shot, and 100M+ to content with let alone there movement and possible terrain.
[Veteran_Mars El'Theran] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 18:53:00 - [34] - Quote I don't see why Sniper Rifles should one-hit-kill on any shot when the target is wearing full armor. Sure, a 30 cal equivalent might one hit kill on amped up armor with a headshot, and a 50 Cal equivalent might one-hit-kill one a head or body shot on the same target, but that body shot should be a Heart shot and only that. Better hit detection can make for better gameplay. No reason any gun should instant kill on a shot to the foot because it's part of the body. Even against an unarmored target, a 50 Cal Sniper Rifle won't kill unless it hits something vital, the target has uncontrollable blood loss, or the trauma of the impact is enough to stop the heart or induce shock such that it kills the target. The fact that targets in Dust are armored, and sometimes heavily armored, have shielding that absorbs incoming damage over a larger area than their armor just makes it less likely that an instant kill will occur.
[Veteran_N3t Hunt3r] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 19:16:00 - [35] - Quote Because as a sniper A it should not require two shots (due to the below it just shouldn't) and B if it does require two shots then its very unlikely that second shot will actually be available because the target will run away and because you are 200M away you can't exactly chase. Also as a side note, last time I heard getting hit by a .50 Calibre rifle generally did quite a good job of killing most things even if it didn't hit somewhere vital due to the mass and speed of the round. Point being that shooting something anywhere above the knee and in the torso will kill it, torso being an out right kill and maybe last a very short period of time having been shot in the leg. Hence sniper and marksman rifle have always been designed to kill on impact where as assault rifles using the NATO 5.56 round over the 7.62 round as the 5.56's are usually designed to wound/maim... (Who says that NATO are nice)
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 19:21:00 - [36] - Quote Templar Two wrote: I am simply pointing out that SR now have more cons than pros. Top level SR is weak against low level heavy: 2 headshots needed to kill the low level heavy. This is not a matter of personal opinion: this is pure math. Do you know how many headshots we have to make to kill a militia heavy with the militia assault rifle? 19 headshots. And to kill a prototype assault with militia AR? 8 headshots. I've yet to try the prototype snipers, as the standard ones are pretty awesome. Two shots to kill a heavy? That's awesome. Maybe a little too awesome. I'm not sure what you're talking about. It takes me 4-5 in my standard and I thought that was fine as it is. How does that work out to a con, more than a pro? Why do you feel like you are entitled to easymode kills as a sniper? @ n3t Hunt3r - If you're 200m Away and the person runs away, you're simply in a bad spot. You need to be closer to the battle as a sniper. You know, so follow-up shots are actually available. This isn't battlefield where you can sit in your base 500m away and get lulzy headshots for epeen marksman points.
[Veteran_N3t Hunt3r] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 19:32:00 - [37] - Quote @ Nova - as soon as you start getting into a point where there running away becomes ineffectual you are then running into the range of assault rifle's which should be able to fire to around 100M accurately and then what's the point or skill in being a sniper. As you said sitting 500M away in base is being an ePeen 'marksman'.... however the reason it's an ePeen is because its out of the range for people to do something about... However the marksman part is the bit that requires skill, more skill than is required to run around guns blazing like you're in a round of Unreal Tournament. As for being in a bad spot... well there isn't a spot in this game that gives you complete oversight of every possible avenue of escape from every possible location of the target, for that to be possible i'd have to be sitting in a nice big shiny tower of awesomeness whilst everyone is on nice flat ground below me....
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 19:37:00 - [38] - Quote Actually, there is shiny towers of awesomeness. There is a giant rock above B and a comm tower thing Above A in the first stage on either map. The rooftops above the individual objectives also pose as incredible vantage points for snipers. As a sniper, a dropship is your best friend to getting into good spots that are actually close to objectives where you can actually make a difference to your team. If you're 500m out you are simply not helping your team. You're taking potshots to pad your KDR. This makes you a bad sniper, even if you can get headshots every time you shoot. A good sniper is close to his team, helping out. A good sniper is usually well within range for people to counter them. They just kill those people faster than they can kill the sniper. KDR shouldn't be your priority as a sniper. Snipers when used properly are amazing force multipliers. Sadly, nobody really uses them properly and just hides for 'easy kills'. :(
[Veteran_Londorian Rogers] 0	Posted - 2012.06.10 19:41:00 - [39] - Quote ohk bad.... Heavy should not be easy to kill. maybe ohk on recon suit ok they is fast balance damage recieved by being hard to hit. heavy slow easy to hit and hit and hit and so on. OP sniper fanboy. I is sniper fanboy 2. I don't want every tom **** and hairy be able to wtf pwn everything. I want skill snipers be able to wtf pwn most things. ohk sniper rifle quickest way 2 COD land. Dieing in dust just like dieing in eve needs to have meaning letting thngs die to easily is no good for game. Also I am not sure the math in these posts have taken into acount damage mods and skills. sniper skill is 5% damage per level and low level damage mods add 3 % I bet with the right fit you could get close to OHK land as it is. If only WE HAZ EFT WARRIORS ...... TLDR: Come at me bro Can I Haz your stuffs
[Veteran_knight dt] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 05:39:00 - [40] - Quote I think the intent is for the DUST mechanics to still be a bit like EVE... instead of like CoD or other FPS typical non-scifi games... The troops have armor and shields - kinda like a ship. The weapons types have alternatives; sniper rifles have more alpha-damage and longer effective range. That doesn't necessarily translate directly into "must always be a OHK" because what you are shooting can have all kinds of different hp (not to mention the headshot variant). And on going prone --- that discussion has flown, peeps. I wanted to link to one thread in particular on the subject, but it turns out there are a dozen... do a search on it and you get 10 pages!

[Veteran_Hazma Dictace] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:27:00 - [41] - Quote I have focused all of my attention to the Sniper Rifle and how I can fit into an agenda based game style with a kill kill kill type of weapon. I have the best prototype weapon and most of the skills and let me just say the Sniper position is just fine. I get plenty of one-shot love and plenty of them are not even head-shots. Center Mass is very do-able and I tend to think that there is even more forgiveness while shooting some one in the back of the head, neck or shoulder blade region. Our job also includes looking for the square dancers and to take out/down the shield of the RED one so our friendly assault specialist can whittle down the armor and then we can steal the ki....err uhhhh I mean "let him finish his job" When I play this game at launch I sincerely hope to find a good group of guys so that voice chat actually has meaning and can be used for tactics and timing. Our vantage point will seldom be seen by heavies and assault players. We can actually SCOUT and have meaningful input into the outcome of a battle. One-shots are cool and fun and make the target mad as Hek, but let's face it they are not the ONLY reason to play a Sniper. -Cheers Hazma Dictace
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:40:00 - [42] - Quote Hazma Dictace wrote: I have focused all of my attention to the Sniper Rifle and how I can fit into an agenda based game style with a kill kill kill type of weapon. I have the best prototype weapon and most of the skills and let me just say the Sniper position is just fine. I get plenty of one-shot love and plenty of them are not even head-shots. Center Mass is very do-able and I tend to think that there is even more forgiveness while shooting some one in the back of the head, neck or shoulder blade region. Our job also includes looking for the square dancers and to take out/down the shield of the RED one so our friendly assault specialist can whittle down the armor and then we can steal the ki....err uhhhh I mean "let him finish his job" When I play this game at launch I sincerely hope to find a good group of guys so that voice chat actually has meaning and can be used for tactics and timing. Our vantage point will seldom be seen by heavies and assault players. We can actually SCOUT and have meaningful input into the outcome of a battle. One-shots are cool and fun and make the target mad as Hek, but let's face it they are not the ONLY reason to play a Sniper. -Cheers Hazma Dictace To be honest, if I'm the guy dancing with a red and you "steal a kill" from me, I'll probably thank you. Genuinely thank you. You probably saved my ass, my assets, and now I can move on to other tasks.
[Veteran_Templar Two] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:45:00 - [43] - Quote I don't want to be able to OHK heavies with a body shot, it never crossed my mind: that would be stupid. Simply from my latest calculation the headshot damage bonus is 56-57% but if we had 100% things would be far better for everyone. I mean the Charge SR is the most powerful SR in the game but if you use any other SR it takes form 4 to 6 headshots to kill a milita heavy non upgraded: that's too much guys.
[Veteran_Hazma Dictace] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:47:00 - [44] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Hazma Dictace wrote: I have focused all of my attention to the Sniper Rifle and how I can fit into an agenda based game style with a kill kill kill type of weapon. I have the best prototype weapon and most of the skills and let me just say the Sniper position is just fine. I get plenty of one-shot love and plenty of them are not even head-shots. Center Mass is very do-able and I tend to think that there is even more forgiveness while shooting some one in the back of the head, neck or shoulder blade region. Our job also includes looking for the square dancers and to take out/down the shield of the RED one so our friendly assault specialist can whittle down the armor and then we can steal the ki....err uhhhh I mean "let him finish his job" When I play this game at launch I sincerely hope to find a good group of guys so that voice chat actually has meaning and can be used for tactics and timing. Our vantage point will seldom be seen by heavies and assault players. We can actually SCOUT and have meaningful input into the outcome of a battle. One-shots are cool and fun and make the target mad as Hek, but let's face it they are not the ONLY reason to play a Sniper. -Cheers Hazma Dictace To be honest, if I'm the guy dancing with a red and you "steal a kill" from me, I'll probably thank you. Genuinely thank you. You probably saved my ass, my assets, and now I can move on to other tasks. Now that's what I'm talkin' bout! I always think to myself, "I wonder if he just read who killed that guy" because it lets him move on. And another point that has not been discussed too much in this thread is this.....Snipers excel at killing Snipers. One-shot style too!
[Veteran_Ventis Gant] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:53:00 - [45] - Quote OHK on a scout suit is pretty normal right now, some assaults go down in one shot, most go down in one shot with a headshot...heavies take several shots, but are easier to target for multiple shots, and as some heavies think they are invincible, they will often ignore my fire, or the fire of my teammates as we work together to whittle him down to size...sometimes I get the last shot in, sometimes I just take out shields and some armor and someone else finishes them off. On another note though...in ambush, the sniper's role is pretty easy...smallish map, and the main goal is to kill as often as possible while avoiding as much dying as possible..as a sniper, I die fairly rarely, and I try to make a point of hitting targets that are engaged with my teammates (I always feel like I'm KSing, but my rationale is that my teammate could have been the one to go down just as easily...for all the shields and armor we have, even a heavy goes down pretty quick if you can get rounds on target). But what is the role of a sniper in skirmish? If defending, its pretty obvious that you want to be above one or more of the objectives...you benefit your team by being able to headshot anyone standing still long enough to try to hack, you are in a position to exercise overwatch for your team, both keeping them apprised of what's coming their way and thinning and weakening the incoming enemy, and, at least in my case, dropping spawn points, so that if your teammates go down, they can respawn right at the objective and jump right down to it, or, depending on the circumstances, stay with you (maybe your AV guy should be up on the rock with you, laying down forge gun love on the enemy vehicles, with infinite ammo from your nanohive that you dropped). In an attacking role...I'm not so sure what a good sniper should be doing. Countersniping the defending snipers of course, and I think that snipers should train up for at least basic dropship skills...my vision is that you start the battle as an attacker...call in your dropship, your squad piles in, you fly directly over one of the objectives and your team drops (I imagine that a full squad of infantry dropping with the inertial damps would look awesome/be terrifying for the enemy), and then land up on a high rock to help protect and keep an eye on things while your squad takes down the objective. For the second part, maybe you drop your squad on C, as its open to the sky, and then land on the roof to interdict and watch the enemy, and provide a safe(ish) spawn point for your team. Any other ideas/suggestions on the proper role of a sniper though?
[Veteran_TheAmazing FlyingPig] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 06:55:00 - [46] - Quote I actually gotta comment on the headshot idea. We have shields. Shouldn't they block bullets equally in the face area as they do elsewhere? If they're in armor, fine. Plating doesn't move itself to stop a projectile. The only time we see shields pop up is when they stop a bullet.
[Veteran_Johnny Guilt] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 07:17:00 - [47] - Quote No OHK,it will turn the game into just guys running with sniper rifles quick scoping everyone.just make headshots count more for the tact snipers they be good.
[Veteran_Templar Two] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 07:22:00 - [48] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: I actually gotta comment on the headshot idea. We have shields. Shouldn't they block bullets equally in the face area as they do elsewhere? If they're in armor, fine. Plating doesn't move itself to stop a projectile. The only time we see shields pop up is when they stop a bullet. Yes we have shields but then this is video game. Also guys/gals don't forget: Snipers miss, it's not like every time we shoot we hit.
[Veteran_Skunk Shampoo] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 07:39:00 - [49] - Quote knight dt wrote: I think the intent is for the DUST mechanics to still be a bit like EVE... instead of like CoD or other FPS typical non-scifi games... The troops have armor and shields - kinda like a ship. The weapons types have alternatives; sniper rifles have more alpha-damage and longer effective range. That doesn't necessarily translate directly into "must always be a OHK" because what you are shooting can have all kinds of different hp (not to mention the headshot variant). And on going prone --- that discussion has flown, peeps. I wanted to link to one thread in particular on the subject, but it turns out there are a dozen... do a search on it and you get 10 pages! Exactly This is EVE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRlrFudaEs8#t=9s This is what the OP wants to do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qniy8aDSFLA#t=19s
[Veteran_Fionn MacConmhie] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 10:52:00 - [50] - Quote Quote: Pone is terrible why? It's a very basic mechanic; a very, very minor thing that in no way makes the game worst. What? Prone massively changes gameplay, and introduces a whole host of things that break the game, both physically and as aspects of gameplay. Prone mechanics can cause massive clipping/falling through maps, moving partially through walls, etc. Worse still : It makes snipers want to be 'Mister Hides-In-Bush'. Hiding in prone ruins snipers in FPS games. Most often people who are off hiding in prone while sniping are in somewhere remote, not caring what their team is doing so long as they remain hidden and their precious KDR slowly rises. Lack of prone in dust forces snipers to be more out in the open, which generally means they are closer to their team and actually helping... Or much further out being even more useless. The latter are usually the people who are the worst prone offenders, so I'm happy to run around with my team earning points while they sit far away being useless :) [/quote] I have to agree, when they introduced prone to battlefield 3 at first I thought great this adds a bit more realism but then as we got into the game you find people proning into walls, proning in bushes or as you said hiding on the other side of the map being useless. I love sniping in FPS's I think it can be great fun but it can also ruin the game like it did in the cod series. Sniping in an fps should not be able to avail of aim assist and although prone can be a realistic feature it can have to much of a negative effect on game-play. only having the crouch position forces you to be more visible and interact with the game, you will be seen and you will need to more about more.

[Veteran_Boogl 47] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 14:24:00 - [51] - Quote I think that adding more damage for some SR, those OneKill, would be also fun if heavy gets HS or critical hit, and spectacular fall to the ground (even without killing him) and getting up should take few moments. It would give the snipers also a tactical use not just shoot to kill role. I personally would shoot them all the time to slow them down and what is most important to see how they do backflip after get shot in the head
[Veteran_Rafgas Joe] 0	Posted - 2012.06.11 16:11:00 - [52] - Quote N3t Hunt3r wrote: #Edit# Maybe put in place a system where we earn war points for good shots, I.E. a shot made whilst the target is moving... then more points if they are running and then to top it all off a nice range bonus for example a hit at 100M+ earns 25 points. To account for the fact thats its easy to shoot someone in the face when you are running around with an assault rifle 10 m from them and somewhat harder when you have 1 shot, and 100M+ to content with let alone there movement and possible terrain. no please, no artificial scores,a kill is a kill, if you do a super awesome shot, but the guy lives, then that super awesome shot was for nothing, awesome though it was, sorry. The roles should be chosen to fit the needs of the battle. And that should really be it imo.


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