DUST Search - Logi's

Echo 1991 wrote:

Georgia Xavier wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

Mina Longstrike wrote:

Because eve is an entirely different game as I've ****ing said and you cannot directly translate mechanics from one game to another. Otherwise I'd be running around in a caldari electronic warfare specialist making it so that no one else can even ****ing shoot their guns at me.

So why does the minmatar get a bonus to the repair tool if being a logi is an entirely different thing??? Dont tell me its different if one race can have and the others cant just because.

See here you're comparing Ships to suits that in if itself is strange enough and what are you talking about? He is saying just because one game has it does not mean this game will be just as good with it. Again that is a ship battle, this is an fps

So why does the min logi get the bonus then? Not a single person can explain why. I keep getting told it can't transfer over from a ship sim to an fps yet the min logi gets a bonus like the one in EVE. Don't you see the lack of logic in thta argument?


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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:32:00 - [1] - Quote In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus. Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:57:00 - [2] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus. Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% or make it so all logis get bonuses to all equipment, logis shouldn't only get a bonus to one piece of equipment just because its racial. Yes they should because it fits every races warfare doctrines and design intent. With your line of reasoning I could easily go "well why cant caldari fit a proper armor tank on their suits! and don't tell me because its racial - if I want to fit a proper armor/shield tank on any race I should be able to" That line of reasoning quickly descends into loss of identity and silliness everywhere. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:16:00 - [3] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus. Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% or make it so all logis get bonuses to all equipment, logis shouldn't only get a bonus to one piece of equipment just because its racial. Yes they should because it fits every races warfare doctrines and design intent. With your line of reasoning I could easily go "well why cant caldari fit a proper armor tank on their suits! and don't tell me because its racial - if I want to fit a proper armor/shield tank on any race I should be able to" That line of reasoning quickly descends into loss of identity and silliness everywhere. so why does every logi in eve get a bonus to a remote repairer? in fact the minmatar use remote shield boosters so why do they get a bonus to an armour rep tool? Logistics fill a different role in eve than they do in dust. Do not try to translate things directly from one game to another. Initially the minmatar carriers (all carriers were logistics ships++) had a bonus to capital remote shield reps OR capital remote armor reps. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:25:00 - [4] - Quote Because they don't need them or it doesn't fit their racial doctrine. Why don't assaults get a bonus to every light weapon ever? Why can't I fit a 5 slot armor tank on my cal-scout? Just because you see the only purpose of a logi being chained to a heavy repping them, doesn't mean that it's true. Caldari = Seige warfare, entrench and fortify - Nanohives & injectors fit this. Amarr = Armored warfare, bring bigger heavier suits than your opponent can - amarr logi shortens the supply lines required to do this. Gallente = Information warfare, know what your enemies intend to do and deny them information in return - active scanners fit this. Minmatar = Skirmish warfare, be able to relocate frequently - rep tools fit this by sustaining the 'weaker' but more versatile suits through fights they shouldn't straight up win with reps, allowing them to be everywhere. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:34:00 - [5] - Quote Because eve is an entirely different game as I've **ing said and you cannot directly translate mechanics from one game to another. Otherwise I'd be running around in a caldari electronic warfare specialist making it so that no one else can even ing shoot their guns at me. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 02:43:00 - [6] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Because eve is an entirely different game as I've **ing said and you cannot directly translate mechanics from one game to another. Otherwise I'd be running around in a caldari electronic warfare specialist making it so that no one else can even *ing shoot their guns at me. So why does the minmatar get a bonus to the repair tool if being a logi is an entirely different thing??? Dont tell me its different if one race can have and the others cant just because. See here you're comparing Ships to suits that in if itself is strange enough and what are you talking about? He is saying just because one game has it does not mean this game will be just as good with it. Again that is a ship battle, this is an fps So why does the min logi get the bonus then? Not a single person can explain why. I keep getting told it can't transfer over from a ship sim to an fps yet the min logi gets a bonus like the one in EVE. Don't you see the lack of logic in thta argument? We have explained, you haven't listened to our explanation. To reiterate the min logi gets it because it most fits skirmish warfare aside from that you are seeing a parallel where it doesn't truly exist. Why do you feel that EVERY LOGI needs to have a rep tool bonus? I mean you can fit one anyways if you want to and all you miss out on is at most +20reps/sec and a few meters of range in exchange for specialization elsewhere. Logi's aren't about warpoint whoring. As a callogi I can toss down a state proto nanohive and completely restock a persons ammo in two cycles, using 4 nanites... of my ~108 nanites in that SINGULAR hive. I could literally keep anyone near me supplied with ammo and grenades for days. Echo 1991 wrote:* Hit and run is not what the rep tool is for. The rep tool is for prolonged engagements. If you wanted justification for a decent hit and run bonus it would be self tank rep Only if you're warpoint whoring. The (proto) rep tool is useful to help take someone who would normally not survive a fight and allow them to push through their opponents. The basic and adv rep tools are for repairing allies between fights (aka skirmishes). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 15:06:00 - [7] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Having your own decent self repair fits skirmish warfare better than having someone with a rep tool do it. And WP whoring aside, it makes the most sense that a suit that's main role is repairing and resupplying gets a bonus to the one piece of equipment that helps them to do that. I also think that all logis should get bonuses to all equipment so that every logi is better carrying out their role. The main bonus they get should make their racial equipment better on their suit and the others should get a smaller bonus so they are better than other suit that can carry equipment except that logi. I personally don't think a logi should be stuck to only being good at one thing. So you're just largely going to ignore what other people have said then eh? Well, delocalized repping is better for skirmish warfare as it allows you to truly min-max your suits as you can rely on someone else for reps. This is something that's demonstrable in eve where a lot of the 'power' fleets rely on a handful of logi's to provide all the reps (and usually much better reps than any individual ship could mount), in exchange for not fitting local tanks (and instead fitting buffer) they can fit damage mods or the like. The logistics role is not about repairing or resupplying unless you are playing a minmatar or caldari logi. Minmatar are the rep logi's it is also a known fact that repair tools provide disproportionate WP gains. Caldari are the re-supply logi's. The universal bonus that makes logi's better than say assaults is the fitting cost reductions for equipment and the three to four equipment slots. You can use whatever equipment you choose, you do not need a bonus to it. If you don't like what a particular logi is oriented towards don't **ing skill into it. logi's are not just about repping people and warpoint whoring. claiming or believing that they are is an incredibly narrow viewpoint. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 15:49:00 - [8] - Quote "My narrow view is the only thing that's true". And you wonder why people are unwilling to engage with you on this subject? The short of it is that you're wrong, and you're too stubborn to even listen to people explain where and why you are wrong. So I have to say I'm leaving this thread here, because it's just going to be the same thing over and over otherwise, you're going to go "WELL LOGI'S SHOULD HAVE A BONUS TO ALL EQUIPMENT" and someone's going to go "This list of reasons is why that isn't the case" and you're going to go "WELL I STILL THINK THIS AND I'M GOING TO IGNORE WHATEVER U SAID". You might even resort to some more flawed parallels, or other inane failings of reasoning. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 16:09:00 - [9] - Quote And we have explained that they are. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 16:33:00 - [10] - Quote ^lol. I got the different racial warfare types wrong? How? Literally, I am asking you to prove how I am wrong, cause I can point to a variety of ships in eve that get bonuses to specific warfare link types, and even to the specific patches that changed them from their single role bonuses (caldari = siege, amarr = armored, gallente = information, minmatar = skirmish) to when they were made to cover broader influences. I also provided a well reasoned explanation for how these 'doctrines' translate into dust. You are also misrepresenting my position. I have never said logi's shouldn't be better at using equipment than other suits. In fact what I have said is that they are better at using equipment than non-logi's. In short. I still don't need to prove you wrong, because you've yet to prove yourself right and a large number of people have been pointing out where your information is incorrect, relying upon flawed understanding or just poorly reasoned. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.20 17:31:00 - [11] - Quote Yes, logi's get a targeted specialization... they also get a cost reduction and three or four equipment slots and large increases in pg/cpu over other fits. So they're better by virtue of being able to fit a lot of good equipment without having to sacrifice a fit and having that targeted specialty. They don't also on top of that need to be able to use every piece of equipment better than a non-logi, that's unbalanced. Eve. Is. A. Different. Game. And. You. Cannot. Make. Accurate. Direct. Comparisons. To. Dust. With. It. Stop. Trying. To. In eve logi's are oriented around remote repair - as they have command ships for fleet boosting, covert ops for scanning, recons for ewar and etcetera. Dust does not have four types of 'medium frame' per race with 6 further specialized ships on top of that (2 Heavy assaults, 2 recons, 1 logistics, 1 heavy interdictor, not counting strategic cruisers either)... in fact there's something like uh, 40-60? ships per race in eve and most typically have very, very specialized roles. Dust does not have the same level of diversity or hyper-specialization, so stop trying to make direct ing comparisions between the two games as every single comparison you have made is ing wrong. I have to ask at this point, do you even PLAY eve? Have you ever? Because I started with eve back in 2007 and I've done *everything* in that game short of joining a nullsec alliance. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.