|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:Logis need more speed. Also the time it takes switching from rep tool to weapon is too damn long.
why not just give them more HP? seems like the more logical move seeing as how they are repurposed assault frames that need to be heavier to carry more equipment. Giving a suit the capacity to stack more HP than others whilst still being faster is the reason scouts got smacked. This is gonna lead to the same thing with logis.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus.
Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% or make it so all logis get bonuses to all equipment, logis shouldn't only get a bonus to one piece of equipment just because its racial.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus.
Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% or make it so all logis get bonuses to all equipment, logis shouldn't only get a bonus to one piece of equipment just because its racial. Yes they should because it fits every races warfare doctrines and design intent. With your line of reasoning I could easily go "well why cant caldari fit a proper armor tank on their suits! and don't tell me because its racial - if I want to fit a proper armor/shield tank on any race I should be able to" That line of reasoning quickly descends into loss of identity and silliness everywhere. so why does every logi in eve get a bonus to a remote repairer?
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Bright Cloud wrote:the amarr logi bonus is lost while beeing death but it kicks back in as soon you respawn. The Cal. logi bonus is just plain useless to be honest. Nobody needs a bonus for nanohives when every 1 can carry 6 of them. Sents can't carry hives. obviously, but caldari should be best at using them is what he is getting at and they arent. maybe increase the bonus to 7.5% per level so that a triage hive gives 96 reps per second or even 10% per level so it does 100
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:In regards to the amarr logi: Vae victus.
Callogi would be in a better place if they nerfed the amount of carried nanohives for non callogi's by about 50% or make it so all logis get bonuses to all equipment, logis shouldn't only get a bonus to one piece of equipment just because its racial. Yes they should because it fits every races warfare doctrines and design intent. With your line of reasoning I could easily go "well why cant caldari fit a proper armor tank on their suits! and don't tell me because its racial - if I want to fit a proper armor/shield tank on any race I should be able to" That line of reasoning quickly descends into loss of identity and silliness everywhere. so why does every logi in eve get a bonus to a remote repairer? in fact the minmatar use remote shield boosters so why do they get a bonus to an armour rep tool? Logistics fill a different role in eve than they do in dust. Do not try to translate things directly from one game to another. Initially the minmatar carriers (all carriers were logistics ships++) had a bonus to capital remote shield reps OR capital remote armor reps. and now they have both, and logis barely have a different role. repair and resupply are the main roles of logistics in dust, so i'll ask again, why dont all logis have a repair tool bonus?
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
855
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Because they don't need them or it doesn't fit their racial doctrine. Why don't assaults get a bonus to every light weapon ever? Why can't I fit a 5 slot armor tank on my cal-scout?
Just because you see the only purpose of a logi being chained to a heavy repping them, doesn't mean that it's true.
Caldari = Seige warfare, entrench and fortify - Nanohives & injectors fit this. Amarr = Armored warfare, bring bigger heavier suits than your opponent can - amarr logi shortens the supply lines required to do this. Gallente = Information warfare, know what your enemies intend to do and deny them information in return - active scanners fit this. Minmatar = Skirmish warfare, be able to relocate frequently - rep tools fit this by sustaining the 'weaker' but more versatile suits through fights they shouldn't straight up win with reps, allowing them to be everywhere. Yet ALL of the races get a bonus to a remote repair of some sort.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
855
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Because eve is an entirely different game as I've ****ing said and you cannot directly translate mechanics from one game to another. Otherwise I'd be running around in a caldari electronic warfare specialist making it so that no one else can even ****ing shoot their guns at me. So why does the minmatar get a bonus to the repair tool if being a logi is an entirely different thing??? Dont tell me its different if one race can have and the others cant just because.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
855
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Powerh8er wrote:Logis need more speed. Also the time it takes switching from rep tool to weapon is too damn long.
why not just give them more HP? seems like the more logical move seeing as how they are repurposed assault frames that need to be heavier to carry more equipment. Giving a suit the capacity to stack more HP than others whilst still being faster is the reason scouts got smacked. This is gonna lead to the same thing with logis. Well that would be good too because then you have the options of stacking speed moods instead of ****** ferroscale armorplates which many logis do now, but if the logis would got more hp then you probably see more of the infamous and much dreaded slayerlogi. Speed > tank. Just look at min assaults
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
859
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 13:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
jordy mack wrote:if wp are used to encorouge equip use, and any point-whoring logi with a rep tool will tell u... they are.
this is how i imagine whoring each race:
give cal logi an additional injector upgrade bonus, +%hp restored and +%points maybe.
ammar just needs to be not broken. everyone would choose the half time links if they hung around. also maybe a uplink hp bonus?
gal scanners get assists off anyone they scan for, but... :) when you're in squad = only your squad see the scan when your're not in a squad=everyone else who is not in a squad see your scans. maybe increase scan assist points?
min logi is pretty cool, incoming speed buff should help survival. just gimme a decent vehicle rep tool ccp!
Or just give every logi a bonus to the rep tool with the min logi being the best to use it on.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
859
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 16:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Echo 1991 wrote: Giving a suit the capacity to stack more HP than others whilst still being faster is the reason scouts got smacked. This is gonna lead to the same thing with logis.
It's also the reason why assaults are going to get smacked. The point of Rattati's Speed / HP Curve is to ensure an inverse relationship between the two metrics. If Logis are to be slower than Assaults, they should have more HP than Assaults. If Logis are to maintain HP levels which are lower than Assaults, then they should be faster than Assaults. My two cents, of course. Which is why I want them to get more HP.
Wanna play eve?
|
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
859
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
The minmatar logi is in a good place and the gal logi isn't far behind. Amarr and caldari logis are rather pointless. No one needs a cal logi cos everyone can carry godly numbers of hives and the amarr logi loses its bonus when dead. Why use them if they are sub par?
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 23:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
jordy mack wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:jordy mack wrote:if wp are used to encorouge equip use, and any point-whoring logi with a rep tool will tell u... they are.
this is how i imagine whoring each race:
give cal logi an additional injector upgrade bonus, +%hp restored and +%points maybe.
ammar just needs to be not broken. everyone would choose the half time links if they hung around. also maybe a uplink hp bonus?
gal scanners get assists off anyone they scan for, but... :) when you're in squad = only your squad see the scan when your're not in a squad=everyone else who is not in a squad see your scans. maybe increase scan assist points?
min logi is pretty cool, incoming speed buff should help survival. just gimme a decent vehicle rep tool ccp!
Or just give every logi a bonus to the rep tool with the min logi being the best to use it on. nah, sounds like u skilled into the wrong logi and are now jealous of minmatar. you'll get more sp dont worry. Don't try be a ****. I have 3 logis. It makes little sense that a suit designed to keep players up and resupplied doesn't get a bonus to the main piece of equipment that does this.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 23:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Because eve is an entirely different game as I've ****ing said and you cannot directly translate mechanics from one game to another. Otherwise I'd be running around in a caldari electronic warfare specialist making it so that no one else can even ****ing shoot their guns at me. So why does the minmatar get a bonus to the repair tool if being a logi is an entirely different thing??? Dont tell me its different if one race can have and the others cant just because. See here you're comparing Ships to suits that in if itself is strange enough and what are you talking about? He is saying just because one game has it does not mean this game will be just as good with it. Again that is a ship battle, this is an fps So why does the min logi get the bonus then? Not a single person can explain why. I keep getting told it can't transfer over from a ship sim to an fps yet the min logi gets a bonus like the one in EVE. Don't you see the lack of logic in thta argument?
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 02:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dzago Sevatarion wrote:Flimsy justification, but Minmatar are hit and run fighters so giving them a repair tool bonus let's them ensure their team can go back to skirmishing with the enemy more quickly.
Flimsy though, like I said. You could accomplish this same thematic goal by letting them give teammates kinetic catalyzer-type enhancements (perhaps at the cost of their own movement speed). Hit and run is not what the rep tool is for. The rep tool is for prolonged engagements. If you wanted justification for a decent hit and run bonus it would be self tank rep
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 14:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Having your own decent self repair fits skirmish warfare better than having someone with a rep tool do it. And WP whoring aside, it makes the most sense that a suit that's main role is repairing and resupplying gets a bonus to the one piece of equipment that helps them to do that.
I also think that all logis should get bonuses to all equipment so that every logi is better carrying out their role. The main bonus they get should make their racial equipment better on their suit and the others should get a smaller bonus so they are better than other suit that can carry equipment except that logi. I personally don't think a logi should be stuck to only being good at one thing.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 15:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Having your own decent self repair fits skirmish warfare better than having someone with a rep tool do it. And WP whoring aside, it makes the most sense that a suit that's main role is repairing and resupplying gets a bonus to the one piece of equipment that helps them to do that.
I also think that all logis should get bonuses to all equipment so that every logi is better carrying out their role. The main bonus they get should make their racial equipment better on their suit and the others should get a smaller bonus so they are better than other suit that can carry equipment except that logi. I personally don't think a logi should be stuck to only being good at one thing. So you're just largely going to ignore what other people have said then eh? Well, delocalized repping is better for skirmish warfare as it allows you to truly min-max your suits as you can rely on someone else for reps. This is something that's demonstrable in eve where a lot of the 'power' fleets rely on a handful of logi's to provide all the reps (and usually much better reps than any individual ship could mount), in exchange for not fitting local tanks (and instead fitting buffer) they can fit damage mods or the like. The logistics role is not about repairing or resupplying unless you are playing a minmatar or caldari logi. Minmatar are the rep logi's it is also a known fact that repair tools provide disproportionate WP gains. Caldari are the re-supply logi's. The universal bonus that makes logi's better than say assaults is the fitting cost reductions for equipment and the three to four equipment slots. You can use whatever equipment you choose, you do not need a bonus to it. If you don't like what a particular logi is oriented towards don't ****ing skill into it. logi's are not just about repping people and warpoint whoring. claiming or believing that they are is an incredibly narrow viewpoint. I never said thats just what the logi is all that it is for, i said that resupplying and repairing are its main role. Keeping you alive and restocking your ammo. I want logis to have a clear advantage with the equipment they can carry so it is better than suits that aren't logis. A fitting bonus doesnt make your equipment better, you can just carry more. Each logi should be proficient at carrying different pieces of equipment not just one because it is racial. I dont care if the amont of WPs for repping is lowered, i dont care about them, I just feel that lois should get effeciency bonuses to all equipment as not to limit their functionality.
Oh and repping has nothing to do with skirmish warfare. Thats all about speed an you wouldn't take a logi when it cant keep up.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:"My narrow view is the only thing that's true". And you wonder why people are unwilling to engage with you on this subject? I haven't been like that, i've merely stated that i wanted logis to be better at using equipment than any of the other suits that can carry equipment. Which makes sense as they are meant to support the team.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:"My narrow view is the only thing that's true". And you wonder why people are unwilling to engage with you on this subject?
The short of it is that you're wrong, and you're too stubborn to even listen to people explain where and why you are wrong. So I have to say I'm leaving this thread here, because it's just going to be the same thing over and over otherwise, you're going to go "WELL LOGI'S SHOULD HAVE A BONUS TO ALL EQUIPMENT" and someone's going to go "This list of reasons is why that isn't the case" and you're going to go "WELL I STILL THINK THIS AND I'M GOING TO IGNORE WHATEVER U SAID". You might even resort to some more flawed parallels, or other inane failings of reasoning. You havent listed reasons why they shoudn't, you've listed reasons why they get their current bonuses.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok Mina, Actually explain why you feel Logis shouldnt be better at using equipment than other suits. Aside from the different warfare types which you got wrong, you havent tried to explain why they shouldnt. If you give valid reasons I'll drop it and i'll admit you are right.
Wanna play eve?
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
860
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Logis are better at using one piece of equipment each, that can hardly be considered better than other suits just because it can use one thing better. If in EVE they dont have to have the bonuses just to one specific type, why should a logi be the same if they can do 2 or even 3 types of different warfare effectively?
Wanna play eve?
|
|
|
|
|