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I-Shayz-I
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Posted - 2015.05.29 11:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright guys, sorry for making so many feedback threads recently...I just want this all to stay as organized as possible because this next logistics update is very very VERY important to me.
I've been thinking A LOT about anything that could go wrong with the changes. Specifically:
-Any suit becoming OP
-Logistics in general being abused
-Possible issues with slot progression and fitting space
-Any suit with an unfair, underwhelming, or non-logi style slot layout
-The Amarr logi sidearm and how to account for it.
Out of all four suits, the Amarr ran into the most problems...which should become apparent quickly as you read through this post.
So, let me share my thoughts about the Amarr suit specifically, and at the end you can vote for how you think progression should be balanced around the sidearm.
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Overview
The defining characteristic of the Amarr Logi suit should be its unrivaled effectiveness in combat due to the sidearm. Originally only available at the prototype level, the progression from ADV to PRO gave you an additional low slot and the unique sidearm. In Uprising, an update gave the sidearm to Amarr at all tiers, making the progression from ADV > PRO not as satisfying.
While a sidearm allows for more versatile options when it comes to weapon selection, the gallente slot layout currently outshines the Amarr with not only one more low slot, but a 4th equipment. With logistics mainly being about maximizing support and survivability, the sidearm just doesn't make up for it being the slowest suit with the worst layout.
Amarr in Dust have been standardized to have the most low slots of any race, as we have seen the Amarr sentinel chnged to 1/4, the Scout with 2/4, and the Assault with 3/5. Therefore we can assume the following layouts depending on the number of slots for Amarr:
Three - 0/3
Four - 1/3
Five - 1/4
Six - 2/4
Seven - 2/5
Eight - 3/5
Amarr's racial bonus for all suits is a much larger pool of stamina. For being the slowest race, they are the joggers that are able to just keep running. While the true Amarrians armor tank, the extra low slots still allow for the usage of kin cats to negate the natural speed penalty and maximize on the stamina pool.
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Here's the link to where you can vote: http://strawpoll.me/4482668
In the next section you will find a detailed look at each of the options in the poll. Please read through any options you are interested in or confused about before making your decision on the poll. I have designed it to only allow players to choose a single option, rather than choosing as many as you like, so please make your choice wisely.
If there are any options I have forgotten about, or anything you'd like to add as feedback for the Amarr Logi, please reply to this thread. This is where any and all discussion about sidearms and the Amarr Logi should go. Feel free to debate and argue as much as you'd like in this thread rather than in the other feedback threads.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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Posted - 2015.05.29 11:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Option 1: Just take away the sidearm
This was my first initial idea. Why not make it easy and just standardize the suit with the other logistics. Give it 8 slots, 4 equipment, and remove the sidearm altogether at every tier.
PRO is 3/5/4
ADV is 2/4/3
STD is 1/3/3
Unfortunately, this just makes the suit a slower gallente logi with a bonus to uplinks and just a tiny amount of extra armor. It loses its uniqueness and the defining factor for why you should skill into it.
But Shayz, that's the difference between the Gallente and Amarr Assaults!
Except that the Gal Ass gets a bonus to a CQC weapon that works better with high mobility and regen, while the Amarr Ass gets a bonus to a long-range weapon that works better with stacked HP.
Option 2: Sacrifice an equipment slot for the sidearm at each tier
This was the most rational idea, that while sound at first, becomes problematic as you look into it more
The main issue is that having limited equipment slots is TERRIBLE for a "deployable" logi. Seeing as we can't make an exception for Amarr to have extra equipment slots at lower tiers, we end up taking away an equipment slot that really needs to be there for it to be a proper logi.
At PRO you get a 3/5/3 layout with a sidearm.
-With current stats, that's perfect and makes the PRO Amarr logi viable
...but if you add in the fact that logistics are getting a speed buff, there's almost no reason to use the Assault after this update unless you want to run a Scrambler.
-3 equipment slots and a sidearm, with enough low slots to be super tanky, could put this suit into FOTM territory like we had with the Caldari Logi
At ADV you get a 2/4/2 layout with a sidearm.
-A lot of people don't like logistics having only 2 equipment slots, and this actually nerfs the Amarr suit at ADV as the suit currently has 3 equipment slots.
At STD you get a 1/3/2 layout with a sidearm.
-Again 2 equipment is just not favorable as the Amarr scout has the exact same layout with arguably better stats
Option 3: Sacrifice a HIGH slot for the sidearm at each tier
Probably the best idea that keeps the identity of the Amarr, gives the suit a unique factor, prevents damage mod stacking, and allows the Amarr logi to be an actual logi.
PRO is 2/5/4 with a sidearm
ADV is 1/4/3 with a sidearm
STD is 0/3/3 with a sidearm
Obviously the downside to this is that 7 slots is not as good as 8 slots, and not everyone wants a sidearm
But that's why I made a poll for the community to ultimately decide what they would like to see. I just feel like this option would make as many people happy as possible.
Option 4/5: Sacrifice a slot for the sidearm at PROTO ONLY
Pretty simple, basically either option 2 or 3, but you leave out the sidearms at STD and ADV. I threw this in just in case it was something people were interested in.
Sacrifice equipment slot
-STD and ADV still have 3 EQ slots for the ideal logi, but see no progression at Proto, where they still have 3 slots, but get a sidearm instead of that 4th slot
Sacrifice high slot
-STD and ADV will have the same layouts as the Assault suits (1/3/3 and 2/4/3), but no sidearm
-Going from ADV to PRO gives you only one low slot and the sidearm
Option 6: Sacrifice a LOW slot for the sidearm
This is yet another option that I included for those that think Gallente should have more low slots than Amarr and miss their 2/3 Amarr Sentinels or whatever.
PRO is 3/4/4 with a sidearm
ADV is 2/3/3 with a sidearm
STD is 1/2/3 with a sidearm
These just don't fit the current layouts for Amarr suits in Dust at all, even if it does still allow for the equipment slots to stay the same as other logistics.
Option 7: Sacrifice more than one slot for a sidearm
As crazy as this sounds, I've heard from quite a few people that the sidearm is worth more than one slot. Either one high one low, one high one equipment, or one low and one equipment.
We're trying to buff logistics here, but I wanted to make sure every voice and idea was able to be heard. This option pretty much keeps the Amarr logi where it is right now. In other words, if you think the Amarr logi progression is fine as it is, this is the option you should choose.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems like the most popular option so far is just to get rid of the sidearm altogether.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.05.31 05:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
more bumps
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Option 7: Amarr Logi sacrifices an equipment slot for a siearm and gets 3 equipment at all tiers.
This isn't balanced at all. STD and ADV would have one more slot than all of the other races.
The closest option is #4 which gives each suit 3 equipment, but only gives the sidearm at Proto, rather than a 4th equipment slot.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.06.02 22:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:And yet with only 3 equipment slots, I can practically guarantee that amarr logi's will be second fiddle to any other in PC - Gallogi's provide scans, Minlogi's provide reps, Callogis (with 4 equip & their higher bandwidth) will be able to lay down uplinks and triage hives to fortify an area - without having to worry about 'losing the uplink bonus'. ya know what if pc folk enjoy 8-15 sec uplinks then good on them the others are clearly better. However if they want to spawn in quickly the only the Amarr Logi can provide that. The only way that is possible though is if the Amarr Logi stays alive, even on a respawn there is a bug that prevents our bonus from applying to our old links.
You are very mistaken, this is not a bug, but very much intended.
Does my Repair tool bonus still aplly when I die as a minmatar logi? Does my scanner still scan when I'm dead as a gallente? What about ANY OTHER SUIT? If you are dead, if you are not ACTIVE on the battlefield, why should the bonus apply?
Be happy that uplinks and nanohives stay on the field after you die
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.06.03 09:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Oh, and Logi SideArm for life! Have my 4th EQ slot
... On second thought screw that! I'm keeping my sidearm, gaining a 5th Low and getting a 4th EQ slot! I'm voting Independent this time around. Just because the options are offered doesn't mean they are the only or best options to be had.
I'm asking for more. Ultimately CCP will have to draw the line.
Any more than 12 slots and you might as well ask for an officer dropsuit.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.06.06 11:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
50% vote to give up the high slot.
I will admit this post heavily biases that option, but it is also the most logical choice.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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I-Shayz-I
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5
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote:I'd rather sacrifice the equipment slot. I only ever use Shield extenders and precision enhancers in high slots. How does that make me a slayer? I just want more survivability.
I dislike most of these options, because they make the advanced suit worse. Sacrificing the equipment slot instead of high slots does not.
The only change to be made is the addition of one high or low slot at the prototype level.
You really want an advanced suit with two equipment slots? How does that make the suit better lol
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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