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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
272
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Posted - 2015.05.27 22:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I mean something to consider... The old slayer logis were problematic because they had so much HP from bonuses. It stands to reason that Rattati wanted to avoid this issue by buffing speed instead of HP in order to bring up survivability while avoiding huge buffer like we used to have.
While I agree with that statement it seems illogical to have logistics players advancing faster than your assault units. I don't see a need to differentiate their speeds. Asssault dropsuits are primarily aggression and weapons focused while logistics are support and equipment focused. Logi players shouldn't want to be outrunning their team mates, on the other hand, assaults should want to be in the enemy teams face all the time. Why not instead buff Logistics speed up to that of Assaults so that they get what they want however do not drag down another class to do it. Well the idea is to have a HP to speed curve, so equal speed would mean Logis would have equal HP too, which I don't think people want. If not equal, then one needs to be superior one way or another. Logis would have either more HP and less speed, or more speed and less HP. Or equivalent speed, less HP, and more equipment slots. The logistics class could use more speed to function in their role however this does not necessary mean they need more speed than frontline aggressive combat suits only and equivalent amount. You also do not need more HP to function in a support role. Better EWAR could serve the Logi well if they don't already have it, etc.
What you do need is actual bonuses related to support in that manner than. The Amarr Logi in particular (with its drop uplink bonus) has a bonus that requires it to run out ahead or flank from the side in order to properly place uplinks (without the assistance of Drop Ships, Drop Ship placed uplinks are much better...but that's combining roles)...the Bonuses need to be changed to better fit the support role (Drop Uplinks/Scanners seems like more of a Scout Suit thing IMO)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
272
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Posted - 2015.05.27 22:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
I get your point, but even if all of the racial assault bonuses actually made a difference (only 2 really do), that still doesn't trump the multitude of equipment slots. Its really about fearing logis being better at slaying, but about logis just simply being better than assaults in a general sense because of disadvantages vs benefits being in favor of the logis.
And we totally get that. If you will check the 100+ pages between the Logi threads Cross started, you would know that the intention is not to make Logis more appealing than Assaults to slayers. That is why Cross and Pokey and many others are saying, nerf Logi CPU/PG, increase Equipment fitting cost, and give Logis a better fitting bonus to equipment. This will leave TryHard slayer logi fits gimp in comparison to a good Assault fit. Also reworking the 2 crappy Assault bonuses will go a long ways. ^Yes, all of this.  It appears that you still have no presented a reason why the logi needs to be 'faster' than the assault to do this. Why can it not achieve the above while being buffed to the same speed?
To Run up quickly to stab people with a Magic Nanite Needle to get them back in the fight, then fade back behind the advancing lines to shield them from fire because of their low HP.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
272
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Posted - 2015.05.27 22:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:True Adamance wrote:Cross Atu wrote:[quote=Booby Tuesdays] ^Yes, all of this. It appears that you still have no presented a reason why the logi needs to be 'faster' than the assault to do this. Why can it not achieve the above while being buffed to the same speed? To Run up quickly to stab people with a Magic Nanite Needle to get them back in the fight, then fade back behind the advancing lines to shield them from fire because of their low HP. Have I ever let you down Thaddeus? That being said you could still do this more efficiently if your suit was AS FAST as an assault. (I run Needle on my Assault all the time BTW). Do you need to be faster? Not really.
The extra speed would be nice fulfill the support role and keep me alive while doing it XD. I can see your point that if the Logis get the same fitting slot layout and relative fitting power, while still gaining bonuses, I can see them getting the same Speed levels despite the HP despair. The Amarr Logi's Bonus in particular would benefit from a higher movement speed than assaults in order to be able to catch up after placing a good link a bit away from the battle so it won't be found...but that's more of an issue with an infiltrator's equipment on a medic suit
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
272
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Posted - 2015.05.27 23:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:
The extra speed would be nice fulfill the support role and keep me alive while doing it XD. I can see your point that if the Logis get the same fitting slot layout and relative fitting power, while still gaining bonuses, I can see them getting the same Speed levels despite the HP despair. The Amarr Logi's Bonus in particular would benefit from a higher movement speed than assaults in order to be able to catch up after placing a good link a bit away from the battle so it won't be found...but that's more of an issue with an infiltrator's equipment on a medic suit
And I am not saying they can't or shouldn't have it. Just asking why it requires the Assault suit role to take a hit and why the Logisitcs Class a supporting role needs speed that is above that of your frontline suits. I just don't understand why Logistics cannot achieve all of those other lofty goals that Cross talked about while having an equivalent speed value which is a direct speed buff to Logi while not fundamentally impacting on the Asssault Role.
In order to have a Standardized curve for HP vs Mobility (the two primary forms of survivability)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
275
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon, so, to be clear, you have no problem with the eHP vs Speed curve, you just have the problem with the Assaults getting lower speed (and would be willing the take an eHP nerf to fit into the curve), due to the similarity between Assaults and Commandos, and concerns about the logi's relative power is that correct?
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
277
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Posted - 2015.05.30 01:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cu' Chulainn wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:The Min Logi getting its first ever buff? Logi suits and Commando suits, my two primary play styles, are getting a buff? I never thought I would see the day!!!
Is the Logi speed buff for movement speed only, or sprint speed as well? Will Logis move faster, but Assaults sprint faster?
The Slayer Logi QQ is expected, but you are seriously nerfing yourself by trying to make a Logi perform an Assaults role... I am not worried about killer bees. sprint and strafe speeds are just multipliers off of movement speed, so all go up. Just curious why a soldier that carries a **** ton of equipment will be faster than his assault counterpart........I understand your graphs and can see the curve makes sense on paper....but I don't play DUST on PAPER!!!
Specialized Servos/Exoskeleton takes the place of the targeting sensors/heat sinks of the assaults allowing it to move faster despite the heavier load? If your issue is to the how a soldier moves faster it's easy to technobabble with sufficiently advanced technology, especially for a universe with confirmed anti-grav/non-air-cushion hover tech, things like graviton reactors and tractor beams
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
280
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Posted - 2015.05.30 02:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cu' Chulainn wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Cu' Chulainn wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:The Min Logi getting its first ever buff? Logi suits and Commando suits, my two primary play styles, are getting a buff? I never thought I would see the day!!!
Is the Logi speed buff for movement speed only, or sprint speed as well? Will Logis move faster, but Assaults sprint faster?
The Slayer Logi QQ is expected, but you are seriously nerfing yourself by trying to make a Logi perform an Assaults role... I am not worried about killer bees. sprint and strafe speeds are just multipliers off of movement speed, so all go up. Just curious why a soldier that carries a **** ton of equipment will be faster than his assault counterpart........I understand your graphs and can see the curve makes sense on paper....but I don't play DUST on PAPER!!! Specialized Servos/Exoskeleton takes the place of the targeting sensors/heat sinks of the assaults allowing it to move faster despite the heavier load? If your issue is to the how a soldier moves faster it's easy to technobabble with sufficiently advanced technology, especially for a universe with confirmed anti-grav/non-air-cushion hover tech, things like graviton reactors and tractor beams Agreed however the CPU/PG of Logi suit would be severely affected by the drain of running 4x the equipment+BW+ stronger servo/exoskeleton to make said logi suit faster than the more simple design of the assault.... pompous techno-babbling unnecessary.... Whenever the assaults gain targeting sensors/heat sinks let me know....I also believe the logi fit has a better natural scan radius. All this takes power. Anyway this is a digression from the point and I didn't post this so you see your own colourful words in print... A simple designed assault suit SHOULD be faster and more tanked than a complexly designed logi suit...maybe not by as much as it is currently...My opinion... BTW have you ever driven an LAV in DUST???? I guess the anti-grav/non-air-cushion hover tech was left at home spawn!!!!!
The Assault Suits aren't any more simple than logistics...as for why...see Rattati's OP, a standard underlying game design principle relating HP and Speed that applies to all suits, not just logistics and assaults
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
280
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Posted - 2015.05.30 02:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
So long as the ratio is applied - equally and to all roles - then the specific numbers of how it is applied are secondary. My advocacy is, and has always been, employing a game wide balance method. No more, no less.
0.02 ISK
~ Cross
Yeah, I understand that. I understood that five posts ago, lol. That was never up for debate. This honestly surprises me because it answers literally ever single concern from your list (at least with regards to me, the individual you have been directly conversing with).
Aeon's been arguing for the specifics of where the assaults should lay on the curve, not arguing that they shouldn't (at least not anymore)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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