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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9
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Posted - 2015.05.26 20:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Objective:
To stimulate low-slot diversity and shake up the present "stack brick" meta.
Key Points:
* Seeks to tune brick through small changes to movement speed penalties.
* Affects heavy frames less so than non-heavy frames; in some cases, renders them faster.
* Affects light frames more so than other frames.
> Google Doc <
Thoughts?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.26 22:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:What do you think, Adipem?
I honestly don't think that we have grounds for nerfing Shields. High-slot diversity has already been achieved. If shields were overpowered, mercs wouldn't be running anything else in their highs, and daily usage rates would demonstrate a lack of diversity. A lack of diversity is precisely what we see with Low-Slot Modules ... 9 of the Top 10 have been armor-related each and every day for the past 6 months. The only other low-slot module which makes the Top 10 is the KinCat, which coincidentally offsets brick movement penalty.
PS: By "brick" I mean armor and armor-related modules; apologies if my usage is incorrect.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.26 22:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:
The one suit that does both at the same time the best is the minmatar assault, this is no surprise. I think this is at the heart of the issue.
I'm of the opinion that the MN Assault presently represents a special case. It is uniquely suited for reaching very high speeds while also stacking significant HP. If Rattati buys in to an inverse Speed/HP model (which I believe he has), then this special case will likely be fixed when MN Assault speed is reduced.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.26 22:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Edit: I believe that Rattati intends to swap Assault and Logi base speeds.
This may alleviate some of the problems in the meanwhile, but I do hope for the Inverse Speed/HP model in the long run. One can only hope.
Swapping Assault and Logi base movement speeds gets us very close to that inverted model. The only other thing to do is add one slot to Commandos ...
Current Model
Max HP: Sentinel > Assault > Commando > Logi > Scout
Speed: Sentinel < Commando < Logi < Assault < Scout
Inverted Model
Max HP: Sentinel > Commando > Assault > Logi > Scout
Speed: Sentinel < Commando < Assault < Logi < Scout
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.26 23:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:I see what you mean, now, and that we're referring to different things.
The suits listed and ordered from tankiest to thinnest would also be slowest to fastest. It's true that after they swap logis and assaults we will be really close to this. This is good design, but I was thinking of something else.
I was referring to the inverse Speed/HP model where every single point of health(base and module) has an effect on your movement speed, as Rattati described many months ago. This would further give players the choice to run as tanky or fast as they choose to.
Perhaps it's just not low hanging fruit, but I feel like it's the right way.
I see no reason why we couldn't do one before the other if it brings about better balance in the short-run. In fact, Rattati's complex tradeoff model would perhaps be easier implemented if it were preceded by these simpler changes.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.26 23:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alternative Idea!
Instead of increasing speed penalty, add a stamina penalty to plates. Make all heavy frames immune to the penalty, or increase heavy frame stamina pools to offset the change.
* Makes sense; it is more difficult to run long distances when heavily burdened
* Adds greater drawbacks to stacking straight plates (promotes low-slot diversity)
* Increases demand for CardRegs (promotes low-slot diversity)
Thoughts?
Spitballing ...
* Reactive -10% stamina pool per plate (all tiers)
* Ferro -10% stamina pool per plate (all tiers)
* Vanilla -15% stamina pool per plate (all tiers)
* Heavies, Sentinels, Commandos immune to stamina penalties
* Movement speed penalties remain as is
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.27 00:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:For the Spitballing not sure I agree with bartering one Amarrian racial attribute [high stamina pool] for another [high armour HP]. Feels like a 'give n take' with Amarr dropsuits being punished for doing what they are meant to do.
Not only under the spitballing ideal are they the slowest dropsuits in the game but also cannot run very far.......they sound like SoxFour.
Credit to Ares 514:
What if the stamina penalty affected stamina regen instead of stamina pool?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.28 02:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Apologies, gents! It goes without saying that this idea is on hold until Rattati's Speed / HP model is hammered out. o7
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.28 02:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
PLAYSTTION wrote:So My gal assault will have a 40% stamina nerf? 2x comp and 1x reactive? I use 2x reps with that. This is how I've been running it since gal mediums came out and son't feel like dropping 200HPor 20+HP/s reps to be able to run. You are basically unbuffing it.
Before the Speed/HP discussions, of course, was thinking an Assault user might drop one plate in exchange for one CardReg to fully overcome any stamina penalty.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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