DUST Search - [Feedback] Warlords 1.1 and Echo

Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

They've been out for awhile, here is some feedback.

- Warlords 1.1 Frame rate improvements
Warlords 1.1 brought noticeable frame rate improvements, especially during intense close quarters combat. Since the proliferation of SKINs and the arrival of Hotfix Echo Tweaks, however, this has reverted. Close quarters combat seems to drop down to the same old 15 FPS very often. Is it possible that frame rate drops are due to RENDERING issues and not database memory issues?? If that is the case we should tread very lightly with the number of SKINs made available and the amount of different sprites that need to be rendered in a given match (and their respective LevelOfDetail versions).

- Backpeddle speed
In Warlords 1.1, backpeddle speed was brought down to 85%. Is it possible that this has been reverted with Hotifx Echo Tweaks? This is difficult to test in game and a couple of threads have cropped up asking the question, without response.

- Vehicle Turret Upgrades
All the new turret upgrades are unlockable with level 3 of their respective skill. Basic, Adv. and Proto. variants of the Heat Sink and the Dispersion Stabilizer unlock with level 3 Vehicle Turret Upgrades. I am assuming this is unintended.

- PG Upgrades
Currently, Militia variant of the PG upgrades has the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. I am assuming this is unintended.

- Uplinks
Currently, Miltia variant of uplinks have the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. This was intentional after Rattati's experience in academy, however the basic variant has no reason to exist at all. All stats including: Bandwidth, Number of Spawns, and Spawn Time Modifier are identical between Militia and Basic except for Militia having LOWER fitting cost.

I miss the days when all Militia variants of weapons were IDENTICAL to their Basic counterparts but with higher fitting requirements. It was a boon to new player experience to know exactly what to expect from a piece of equipment before skilling into it. This is no longer true for many weapons, including the HMG, the flaylock, swarm launcher, and many others who either have less damage, more heat or smaller clips than even their basic variants.

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:29:00 - [1] - Quote They've been out for awhile, here is some feedback. - Warlords 1.1 Frame rate improvements Warlords 1.1 brought noticeable frame rate improvements, especially during intense close quarters combat. Since the proliferation of SKINs and the arrival of Hotfix Echo Tweaks, however, this has reverted. Close quarters combat seems to drop down to the same old 15 FPS very often. Is it possible that frame rate drops are due to RENDERING issues and not database memory issues?? If that is the case we should tread very lightly with the number of SKINs made available and the amount of different sprites that need to be rendered in a given match (and their respective LevelOfDetail versions). - Backpeddle speed In Warlords 1.1, backpeddle speed was brought down to 85%. Is it possible that this has been reverted with Hotifx Echo Tweaks? This is difficult to test in game and a couple of threads have cropped up asking the question, without response. - Vehicle Turret Upgrades All the new turret upgrades are unlockable with level 3 of their respective skill. Basic, Adv. and Proto. variants of the Heat Sink and the Dispersion Stabilizer unlock with level 3 Vehicle Turret Upgrades. I am assuming this is unintended. - PG Upgrades Currently, Militia variant of the PG upgrades has the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. I am assuming this is unintended. - Uplinks Currently, Miltia variant of uplinks have the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. This was intentional after Rattati's experience in academy, however the basic variant has no reason to exist at all. All stats including: Bandwidth, Number of Spawns, and Spawn Time Modifier are identical between Militia and Basic except for Militia having LOWER fitting cost. I miss the days when all Militia variants of weapons were IDENTICAL to their Basic counterparts but with higher fitting requirements. It was a boon to new player experience to know exactly what to expect from a piece of equipment before skilling into it. This is no longer true for many weapons, including the HMG, the flaylock, swarm launcher, and many others who either have less damage, more heat or smaller clips than even their basic variants. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:43:00 - [2] - Quote - Small Blaster Turret The small blaster turret is very effective from a dropship or other vehicle that is perfectly still. Any movement or drift, however slight, causes the shots to go way off target, even if the gunner's client is showing them that the shots go straight. This is observable with all small turrets, including the missile launcher. The only difference is that the missile launcher does not "lie" to the gunner about it's trajectory, presumably because the server must instantiate the projectile and update everyone's client afterwards. Know what cannot be known.
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 257	Posted - 2015.05.23 00:16:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for the summary. I hope CCP finds it useful. Amarr Victor Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 00:54:00 - [4] - Quote Small turrets have always been poorly implemented in Dust514 (made dramatically worse with the release of Uprising 1.0, and not improved during the GREAT TANK GANK). I have published some previous analysis on what is wrong but I suspect that there will be no fix. Previously I suspected that there was nobody capable of figuring it out and now the personnel are at best, over burdened with a to do list that is gigantic. I cannot help with the ADV/PRO of turret upgrades as both my tankers are lvl 5 before the patch. However, if that is indeed true I suspect you made a good catch. To recap my previous analysis: there are two issues with small turrets. First there is a physics issue regarding the turret itself. Instead of being a small offset from the main vehicle turrets take on either A: the entire momentum of their vehicle or B: too significant a portion. Evidence by viewing gunners in B-17s, small turret movement in various existing modern day battle tanks. When the turret is not facing the direction of the main vehicle (like being on the top gunner scanning for Reds) there is a significant drag evident. Yet the turret is incredibly small. Indeed, it is merely the weapon itself as it appears to be man remotely (in some unexplained science fiction fashion). The front turrets also display that behavior (slow turning) that is inconsistent with the turret itself. The reason is the moment of inertia is wrong. Indeed, in a video game I would believe that it shouldn't be included. Although it might be interesting in a simulation - Dust514 is as far from a simulation that I can conceive of. Second issue is the trajectory of the rounds that leave the barrel of any small turret. The small missile is the best example as it makes it very clear the code is distinctly incorrect (tragically so). There are three vectors involved in just exiting the barrel. First is the main vehicle itself, second is the vector of the small turret and the third item is only valid if it is the top turret on a tank, thus it would be the vector of the main turret. Fire a round from a moving tank with a missile turret, it will go in a random direction. The first one will normally be quite dramatic. If you weren't counting on hitting anything with it then the results are also quite funny. Repeated firing does seem to be less incorrect but it is never correct if there is any movement. To make any shoot with a turret the vehicle needs to be moving in a straight line with the barrel of the small turret, or completely stopped. Successful hits outside of those conditions might be best attributed to luck or the aim assist. A simple test would be possible if the code that processes the vectors were used in a simple wireframe test. First the vector to the main vehicle would be drawn, then the one or two turrets in question and finally the vector of each round that leaves the weapon. Admittedly there is the problem that the momentum of the small turret is tragically wrong but assume in the test that the turret is merely pointed off at an angle from the main gun. Firing rounds should mimic historical documented action. Yet, no such accuracy is noted. However, I don't have that code. I am a retired software manager, senior engineer and software consultant. I don't want that code without compensation. Okay, sorry about that but it did help to summarize my thoughts once again on the issue. Versus, you know looking stuff up on the web. My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 01:00:00 - [5] - Quote In addition to my work puking above you make some really good points. I suspect that the adversarial relationship that CCP has with their customers is the reason for the Militia vs Basic equipment/weapon disparity. Many players use Militia gear. Even PRO capable players. I use blueprints wherever possible, the game is punishing. Not in a Dark Souls tough but fair method but just as a "Hah! You lost more ISK!" way. Thus many used Militia gear and it appears to me that CCP felt that was an exploit. Welcome to Dust. My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.23 01:00:00 - [6] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: - Backpeddle speed In Warlords 1.1, backpeddle speed was brought down to 85%. Is it possible that this has been reverted with Hotifx Echo Tweaks? This is difficult to test in game and a couple of threads have cropped up asking the question, without response. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: [...] Fire a round from a moving tank with a missile turret, it will go in a random direction. The first one will normally be quite dramatic. If you weren't counting on hitting anything with it then the results are also quite funny. Repeated firing does seem to be less incorrect but it is never correct if there is any movement. To make any shoot with a turret the vehicle needs to be moving in a straight line with the barrel of the small turret, or completely stopped. Successful hits outside of those conditions might be best attributed to luck or the aim assist. [...] I can confirm the above is true. I would also like to add that it's true for the hitscan turrets as well (blaster and railgun). The only difference being that the hitscan turrets will lie to the gunner's client, telling them that they indeed shoot straight, while the pilot's client communicates with the game server to determine where the shots actually go. This often results in blue flare shield effects with no damage applied, if the vehicle is in motion. Watching where shots land between gunner and pilot's clients is dramatically different when the vehicle is in motion. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:18:00 - [8] - Quote Dear CCP, can any of this please go on a list to be checked at your leisure? Know what cannot be known.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 02:43:00 - [9] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: They've been out for awhile, here is some feedback. - Warlords 1.1 Frame rate improvements Warlords 1.1 brought noticeable frame rate improvements, especially during intense close quarters combat. Since the proliferation of SKINs and the arrival of Hotfix Echo Tweaks, however, this has reverted. Close quarters combat seems to drop down to the same old 15 FPS very often. Is it possible that frame rate drops are due to RENDERING issues and not database memory issues?? If that is the case we should tread very lightly with the number of SKINs made available and the amount of different sprites that need to be rendered in a given match (and their respective LevelOfDetail versions). - Backpeddle speed In Warlords 1.1, backpeddle speed was brought down to 85%. Is it possible that this has been reverted with Hotifx Echo Tweaks? This is difficult to test in game and a couple of threads have cropped up asking the question, without response. - Vehicle Turret Upgrades All the new turret upgrades are unlockable with level 3 of their respective skill. Basic, Adv. and Proto. variants of the Heat Sink and the Dispersion Stabilizer unlock with level 3 Vehicle Turret Upgrades. I am assuming this is unintended. - PG Upgrades Currently, Militia variant of the PG upgrades has the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. I am assuming this is unintended. - Uplinks Currently, Miltia variant of uplinks have the same stats as the Basic variant but with LOWER fitting cost. This was intentional after Rattati's experience in academy, however the basic variant has no reason to exist at all. All stats including: Bandwidth, Number of Spawns, and Spawn Time Modifier are identical between Militia and Basic except for Militia having LOWER fitting cost. I miss the days when all Militia variants of weapons were IDENTICAL to their Basic counterparts but with higher fitting requirements. It was a boon to new player experience to know exactly what to expect from a piece of equipment before skilling into it. This is no longer true for many weapons, including the HMG, the flaylock, swarm launcher, and many others who either have less damage, more heat or smaller clips than even their basic variants. Thanks, most of these are simply bugs, but the backpeddle speed hasn't been touched. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Optimus Last Prime TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 02:50:00 - [10] - Quote These bugs are very unnoticable, but it can be fixed. -I want metalevel lockout as quick as possible Plz ._.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 03:53:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: [quote=Kaeru Nayiri] - Backpeddle speed In Warlords 1.1, backpeddle speed was brought down to 85%. Is it possible that this has been reverted with Hotifx Echo Tweaks? This is difficult to test in game and a couple of threads have cropped up asking the question, without response. Thanks, most of these are simply bugs, but the backpeddle speed hasn't been touched. Testing and confirmed that forward movement speed > backpedal speed. Agree w/Kaeru that MedFrames have been tougher to knife this build. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:40:00 - [12] - Quote Thank you very much for testing that Adipem, very humble thank you. Thank you Rattati for taking note of the minor bugs, and hopefully keep in mind the other issues as well about frame rate and skins. Know what cannot be known.
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 139	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:52:00 - [13] - Quote Uplinks bug: You can have active only ONE. Ex. adv uplink, max carried 6, max active 2. When you trow second, first is deleted.. Good day. dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 60 kk SP and growing
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:54:00 - [14] - Quote @Aderek What you are describing sounds like a bandwidth issue. You may need to repeat your experience in an advanced suit. The average Basic suit does not have enough bandwidth to keep 2 uplinks going, even if the uplinks themselves can be max active 2. Know what cannot be known.
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 141	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:31:00 - [15] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: @Aderek What you are describing sounds like a bandwidth issue. You may need to repeat your experience in an advanced suit. The average Basic suit does not have enough bandwidth to keep 2 uplinks going, even if the uplinks themselves can be max active 2. No, i trow it by PROTO LOGI. All is ok when i drop nano, proxy, etc. dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 60 kk SP and growing
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:33:00 - [16] - Quote When did this happen? Just yesterday I was able to deploy 2 advanced uplinks in a match without the other popping off. I will try again when I get in game, but I have not witnessed what you are describing. :( Know what cannot be known.


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