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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.05.18 19:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Just to clarify on something that has been mentioned in this thread so far, Dust's alleged Exclusivity to PS3.
It was never 'exclusive' to the PS3 or indeed any other format. Circumstance dictated that it be on PS3 because Microsoft wouldn't allow access to a CCP server (Tranquility) from within Xbox Live's walled garden. There are pictures of demo versions being played on 360's from very, very early in its development cycle. Once it was clear to CCP that they couldn't get around that, development switched to PS3. This was facilitated by Sony being very keen to get experience of the FTP market and giving CCP a lot of help.
This relationship is still a very healthy one by the way, made very clear to anyone at Fanfest 2014. Sony exec's I spoke to had huge grins on their faces when it was becoming clear just how many units of the Morpheus headset and PS4 that Valkyrie is going to sell for them. (a lot is what those that have tried it will testify to)
As for the PS4, its very easy with the benefit of hindsight to criticise the decision to stick with PS3 for the games launch. Hindsight is always 20-20. But the fact is that Dust was announced in August 2009, nearly three and a half years before the PS4 was officially announced and over fours years before you could buy the console. Now I know that many of you will argue that it was known that the PS4 was coming for a couple of years before that and CCP should've anticipated that. Well, the Steam box was supposed to be out last year is all I'll say about that. Software developers need to know that a format is actually going to arrive before committing resources, hence why most launch titles are first party titles. Sony and Microsoft's in house dev teams will always get the first details of a console, way earlier than third party software houses do.
To continue the history lesson, Dust was announced in 2009 but it had already been worked for a couple of years before that. A game is never announced and then work starts on it the following day. Its announced when the company is confident that it can be completed and launched on schedule. It's usually not till its passed all sorts of internal reviews and a considerable amount of work already done before the public even hear about it. Most games get cancelled before the public even hear of them. The current vogue of Kickstarters, Pre Alpha access such as Day-Z and H1Z1 and early demonstrations of profit of concepts like EVE-VR that became Valkyrie is a relatively new concept. But even then the two most famous Kickstarters, Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous still had a lot of preparatory work before they shown off to the public.
To reiterate my earlier point about game Dev's needing details of consoles before committing resources, EVE-VR was first publicly shown at Fanfest 2013, two months after the announcement of the PS4. It was a no brainer to commit it to that format once the game was green lighted. And even since then the speed of the uptake of the PS4 has caught the industry and indeed Sony by surprise.
The Legion copyright has lapsed. That much is now public knowledge and unable to be denied by myself, the rest of the CPM or CCP. I can't really comment about it much more than that. Much can be inferred by its lapsing I guess and I'd imagine it will but I continue to remain confident as to the future of a New Eden first person shooter.
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Thank you for the reply Kevall, always nice to read your posts. I kind of figured that Dust 514 wasn't exclusive to PS3 legally, but CCP and Sony have a great working relationship.
Kevall Longstride wrote:A game is never announced and then work starts on it the following day. Its announced when the company is confident that it can be completed and launched on schedule. It's usually not till its passed all sorts of internal reviews and a considerable amount of work already done before the public even hear about it. This is something I'm going to wildly infer upon, feel free to ignore my rambling if you would like...
If CCP announced Legion then doesn't that mean they are "confident that it can be completed and launched on schedule"? Could we then assume that CCP has been working on Legion long before the announcement at Fanfest 2014?
@Ripley_Riley
"Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
666
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
Speculation bomb!!!
Legion came about because of in house dev struggles and overall Sony QA frustration.
Rouge Wedding
Fans confused hurt, betrayed and pissed leaves.
One man steps from the ashes, his name is Rattati and commits to building Dust and restoring dev/consumer faith.
Mercs begin to warm up, return, and support.
The ol Hilmar man sees profit and announces.
Rat and fanbase has shown Hilm that Dust can have a future under its name
Unbeknownst to us, a move to PS4 is under consideration but can't be committed to without a "fleshing out" of Dust's purpose.
Legion on hold can be the good news we're looking for.
I truly believe this FPS won't just end. It has to move somewhere and if I'm right, CCP has learned not to speak on probability projection.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Speculation bomb!!! If CCP is frustrated with Sony about QA then why would then continue to do business with them on the PS4? Wouldn't they want to avoid repeating that same mistake and get Legion/Dust 514 on PC instead. You know, where they could roll out a patch every day if they wanted?
@Ripley_Riley
"Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Good post & recap Kevall. At the time PS3 made perfect sense.
One thing stays true independent of platform or year or engine, however: This boat will sink or float on the quality of its code and core mechanics.
If CCP learns nothing else from 5 years of agony, learning that would be enough. Maybe next time we can do this thing for real. If there is a next time.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
668
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:Speculation bomb!!! If CCP is frustrated with Sony about QA then why would then continue to do business with them on the PS4? Wouldn't they want to avoid repeating that same mistake and get Legion/Dust 514 on PC instead. You know, where they could roll out a patch every day if they wanted?
Sorry dude, I forgot to include keyword "were". I'm all for the PC but reading the article, I wonder if something changed behind closed doors. A product being profitable will, of course, change a few perspectives and prospects.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Speculation bomb!!!
Legion came about because of in house dev struggles and overall Sony QA frustration.
Rouge Wedding
Fans confused hurt, betrayed and pissed leaves.
One man steps from the ashes, his name is Rattati and commits to building Dust and restoring dev/consumer faith.
Mercs begin to warm up, return, and support.
The ol Hilmar man sees profit and announces.
Rat and fanbase has shown Hilm that Dust can have a future under its name
Unbeknownst to us, a move to PS4 is under consideration but can't be committed to without a "fleshing out" of Dust's purpose.
Legion on hold can be the good news we're looking for.
I truly believe this FPS won't just end. It has to move somewhere and if I'm right, CCP has learned not to speak on probability projection. this is pretty much exactly what I've been thinking/hoping. No doubt Rattati has changed at least in someway the planned future for New Eden FPS.
Amarr are the good guys
Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
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Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
498
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Posted - 2015.05.18 20:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Balistyc Farshot wrote:First CCP signed exclusivity deal for Dust514 on the PS. Yeah, PS4 or nothing is the only option. Unless you think CCP can out lawyer Sony. That is partly why Legion will never happen. Dust514 had so much support from Sony they can't hose them. Exclusivity agreements can have expiration dates. As for the "PS4 or nothing", CCP is putting Valkyrie on PS4 and they have a good working relationship with Sony. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility for CCP and Sony to let Dust 514 transition off the Playstation consoles amicably. No lawyers or litigation required. PC is CCP's home field. It's where they made a name for themselves with Eve Online. On PC there is a huge audience just waiting for a quality future-tech RPGFPS F2P game on Steam and other such services. Hell on Steam alone there are 125 million active accounts. That is more than Xbox, PS4, and WiiU combined (40 million).
If I ever saw dust 514 in steam, I would cry tears of joy for eternity.
Click me
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.05.18 22:12:00 -
[69] - Quote
Totally seems worth devoting a fan fest to and alienating your fan base. 
Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10
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Posted - 2015.05.18 22:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Totally seems worth devoting a fan fest to and alienating your fan base.
Especially when absolutely nothing came out of it. CCP putting trolls to shame.
Amarr are the good guys
Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:Totally seems worth devoting a fan fest to and alienating your fan base. Especially when absolutely nothing came out of it. CCP putting trolls to shame.
Yeah, that was the craziest part of that for me.
All these threads over the life of Dust talking about how this new game was going to take all the players away and leave the game and empty husk, and CCP came along and did it themselves.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:04:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:Totally seems worth devoting a fan fest to and alienating your fan base. Especially when absolutely nothing came out of it. CCP putting trolls to shame. Yeah, that was the craziest part of that for me. All these threads over the life of Dust talking about how this new game was going to take all the players away and leave the game and empty husk, and CCP came along and did it themselves.
I was watching the FF at school that day... Kept getting asked why I looked like I wanted to murder someone.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
If I've ever seen a piggybank thats screams for my 2c isk this is it.
Unless I'm mistaken, and very well can be, I was the first among very few to point out the exclusive distribuiton aspect of DUST514 with Sony and how Legion (especially since it so very much seemed to be the product of a dev cabal versus an intended product) went contrary to that.
First I'd like to be real specific, at no point have I ever stated as fact or theory that dust was a PS3 exclusive, just that it was a Sony distribution exclusive. So the idea that Legion would be CCP at home in the wilds of PC gaming development with no Sony involvement or oversight just doesn't make sense.
So the Legion trademark is up (has been up). Maybe thats a good thing. Release of the trademark could mean no further interest in the project at all so now on to something else. Could mean time to rebrand the entire box-contents under different labling if for no other reason than to limit unknowing potential consumers from google searching "new game" EVElegion and finding any one of the million lamenting internet posts that would undoubtedly necro up. A fresh face for hopefully a fresh start. Maybe.
On that distribution thing, even if it stays Sony that doesnt mean it stays console neccessarily. SoE does PC games too, iirc they closed SWKTOR last year or the year before that could be a potential playerbase growth option, scifi lazorz n stuff, theyre considering.
Myself, I'm firmly on the console train, I grew tired of the constant pc gaming hardware wars a long time ago and Sony as an arcade/GameKeeper provider works for me. I like having that additional layer of support infrastructure and Quality Assurance execution Sony provides. And Sony I know is serious about providing it, their company is on a pretty good upswing largely due to their gaming division. I think their current CEO was actually promoted from their gaming division.
So, yeah, Thats my Two Cents
tl;dr Trademark lapse info is a very interesting find but I think the most any of us can really do is wait and see. *crosses fingers for word of ps4 port tommorrow*
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Nachos
Rogue Instincts
New Eden's Heros
63
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Totally seems worth devoting a fan fest to and alienating your fan base.
this
CCP are the best company at screwing things up
xavier zor
xavier zor
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
205
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
We'd see a twofold increase in the playerbase immediately if they just announced they are looking at porting Dust to the PS4.
Thor's Emporium
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
thor424 wrote:We'd see a twofold increase in the playerbase immediately if they just announced they are looking at porting Dust to the PS4.
It would certainly bring back quite a few of the bitter people who left after the Rouge Wedding.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:thor424 wrote:We'd see a twofold increase in the playerbase immediately if they just announced they are looking at porting Dust to the PS4. It would certainly bring back quite a few of the bitter people who left after the Rouge Wedding.
Id just sell my ps3 and get a ps4 the same day.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
209
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Posted - 2015.05.19 03:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:thor424 wrote:We'd see a twofold increase in the playerbase immediately if they just announced they are looking at porting Dust to the PS4. It would certainly bring back quite a few of the bitter people who left after the Rouge Wedding.
And it would hurt nothing if it never came to pass. Isn't it obvious that people have lost faith with the declining numbers? You can't disappoint a playerbase with little to no expectations. I understand CCP's reluctance in the past, but there is nothing to lose by announcing something now.
Thor's Emporium
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Starlight Burner
Arrary of Clusters
266
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 06:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
Came here thinking I was going to see a announcement of Legion confirmed for PC AND PS4.
:(
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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Ghural
WarRavens
390
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 09:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
The only reason I continued to play Dust was because my assets and skills would eventually be transferred (in some form) to the new game.
Now why should I bother?
CCP should end the speculation and actually communicate with players about the future of Legion.
My tinfoil hat speculation is that the trademark has been rendered obsolete by CCPs decision to incorporate FPS gameplay into the EVE client.
That is, until they change their minds again, |
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.05.19 09:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
Didn't I say at one point that we shot ourselves in the foot by showing CCP that Dust 514 was profitable? Lol
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.05.19 09:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:thor424 wrote:We'd see a twofold increase in the playerbase immediately if they just announced they are looking at porting Dust to the PS4. It would certainly bring back quite a few of the bitter people who left after the Rouge Wedding.
Laser focused on the PS4 all the way up until 2025 then everyone gets pissed again because they announce they're thinking about remaking it for the PC.
Then they all come back when they announce it's being ported over to the PS5.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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The Attorney General
2
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Posted - 2015.05.19 10:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
Totally called the vaporware right after it was announced.
Hopefully the shitler brownnosers can properly justify this as CCP doing a good thing for duties.
The IWS spin on this should be classy.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
683
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Posted - 2015.05.19 11:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Was reading about CCP's giving up the patent a while ago.
Could mean anything or nothing. For my money it means whatever they do going forward, if they go forward, they're keeping the 'Dust 514' name.
Lol - this reminds me of my favorite soldier's prayer, attributed to Anonymous: 'God, if there is a god, save my soul, if i have a soul.'
I am going to book mark this thread and revisit it once I read the CCP financial report for 2014.
If Rat was able to post a decent profit from such a small community, then my money is on Rat taking more responisbility from Rogue. Which of course would mean a Ps4 port.
Sony sold Planet Side to an investment firm called Day Break Games, so now there is no in house competition for a Sci Fi shooter at Sony.
Continue with the LIVE BETA over here on Ps3, lower the expectations for connectivity to Eve and reduce the vision for Dust.
(They stated this clearly in interviews post fanfest)
Polygon Article - Dust is profitable on Ps3
In that same article CCP's CEO admits that they tried to do too much... rather than focusing on the core gameplay to make it fun minute to minute.
So yeah, that is just one of many interviews and comments I have found that echo that "scale back, focus on Dust 514" theme.
I have seen it in video and audio comments from CCP as well, and it makes sense.
TL;DR
Dust is profitable, Dust 514 is a live Beta, CCP focusing on core game rather than Eve Connection / MMO aspects, Sony Sold Planet Side 2, CCP has good relationship and Valkiery contract with Sony, Ps4 port makes sense.
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.05.19 13:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Didn't I say at one point that we shot ourselves in the foot by showing CCP that Dust 514 was profitable? Lol
No good could have come from Legion. You were THERE, so you saw better than any of us that that was a thrown-together hack-job that would have run as badly on PC as it did on PS3.
Whatever they're doing right now, it's pretty obvious they're taking their time with it, so it will be better than Project Legion no matter what.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.05.19 13:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Whatever they're doing right now, it's pretty obvious they're taking their time with it, so it will be better than Project Legion no matter what. On a semi-related note: no matter what CCP decides, PC or PS4, I hope Rattati stays involved.
@Ripley_Riley
"Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.05.19 15:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Whatever they're doing right now, it's pretty obvious they're taking their time with it, so it will be better than Project Legion no matter what. On a semi-related note: no matter what CCP decides, PC or PS4, I hope Rattati stays involved.
I agree. He's demonstrated far greater awareness of genuine game issues than the majority of our previous devs. I'd have to say that he's demonstrated the value of playing the game - there are a lot of interacting systems in Dust and no dev, intelligence, education, experience notwithstanding, is going to be able to armchair what is actually happening with the game without having significant in-game experience at a non-trivial level.
That sucks from a development standpoint, but it's the nature of deep games, doubly so for PvP games set in New Eden. CCP is attempting several new things at once. Hands-on experience is a must if devs want to mine the forums for valid ideas - the time invested in-game gives them the experiential lexicon to efficiently parse the forums. Imo, CCP should invest real resources in having staffers whose job it is to be in-game experts as well as devs. Rattati's targeted successes are proof enough of that.
There are other very good reasons to keep him on-board. His stats-fu is solid and has already payed big dividends for the game. It's the natural counterpoint to in-game experience and taken together the combination is powerful. Complex games require data-driven inference and developers who understand and can intuit the mathematics of inference. Hard to find, but we've seen the value of that skillset here in Dust - in fact Rattati's in-game experience coupled with his ability to perform data-driven inference is arguably what saved Dust.
That combination was valuable here, but in a future incarnation of the game where devs were not hamstrung by short-sighted, foolish, amaturish, and flat-out incompetent legacy technical issues the skillset would be even more valuable.
That's a long-winded, but honest, way of saying i also hope he sticks around.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.05.19 16:02:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Didn't I say at one point that we shot ourselves in the foot by showing CCP that Dust 514 was profitable? Lol No good could have come from Legion. You were THERE, so you saw better than any of us that that was a thrown-together hack-job that would have run as badly on PC as it did on PS3.
Agreed. They got up there and proudly demo'd the same flawed implementation of a game engine that sunk Dust - but with better graphics! That all by itself took my confidence level with the new regime down a few notches. Couple that with Z's anti-NewEden progression scheme and the blatantly marketing-driven game design that the new guard was pursuing - i had absolutely no hope for Legion. On top of that the decision-makers responsible for the Rouge wedding(not Rouge himself, imo) were pretty obviously still the same awful decision makers who had wantonly destroyed the Dust project.
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Whatever they're doing right now, it's pretty obvious they're taking their time with it, so it will be better than Project Legion no matter what.
Sadly if feel less confident than you - we've seen evidence of poor thinking from the new guard as detailed above, but to my knowledge we've seen absolutely no indication of what or how they're thinking about Dust now(whoever the hell 'they' are). Y'know at this point i wouldn't be terribly surprised if they announced they were switching focus to an iPhone game.
PSN: RationalSpark
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.05.19 19:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
If theres something to announce I'd expect CCP of all people to want to be first in line to announce it. Considering the history of randomly akward to hostile announcements and development outcome feedback with both DUST and EVE it only makes sense they'll look to do everything they can to have a solid product ready loooong before any hint of an announcement. Rattati, don't forget was brought over from marketing so its an easy bet hedge he knows the damage not being ready but saying they are will do.
quit opening the oven door to peek at the cake and pie, you might **** up the temperature in there and cause that cake to fall. The pie crust too.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.05.19 19:59:00 -
[90] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:If theres something to announce I'd expect CCP of all people to want to be first in line to announce it. Considering the history of randomly akward to hostile announcements and development outcome feedback with both DUST and EVE it only makes sense they'll look to do everything they can to have a solid product ready loooong before any hint of an announcement. Rattati, don't forget was brought over from marketing so its an easy bet hedge he knows the damage not being ready but saying they are will do. I don't believe he came from marketing. I want to say he came from the finance department.
el OPERATOR wrote:Quit opening the oven door to peek at the cake and pie, you might **** up the temperature in there and cause that cake to fall. The pie crust too. It's been over a year since CCP has told us anything of significance about Legion or the future of Dust 514. Sorry, but my patience with this has worn thin. The patience of the community has long since faded. We need answers if CCP wants us to remain loyal to this game, because without a future there isn't anything for us to remain loyal to.
@Ripley_Riley
"Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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