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Posted - 2015.05.13 16:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:An amarr scout will pick up almost every other dropsuit at 15m or less. How long does it take to detect a scout behind you, turn, aim, fire and kill your target? How long does it take that scout to close from 15m to shotgun range and kill you? Damps are inherently more powerful than precision enhancers, because for precision enhancers to really be effective, they need to be combined with enough range to be able to react and neutralize the target when you still have the range advantage. Damps work at all ranges.
I don't buy this argument. First and foremost, Scouts don't automatically spawn 15m behind you; it takes awhile to single-out, flank and stalk a target.
Secondly, I can't help my squadmates beat scans by stacking damps, but I can absolutely stack precision enhancers and share my passives 6 ways. I do exactly that on my uparmored, 3x precision Recon GalLogi (which also has three 200m, 90 degree, 21 dB, team-wide active scanners). I don't need to run range extenders; I have active scanners for that, and my passives pick up most MedFrames and undampened MN/AM Scouts at long range, single damped MN/AM Scouts at mid-range, and absolutely everything at close range.
If you get close enough to kill my recon god GalLogi with shotgun or knives, you are absolutely painted to my squad's TacNet, regardless of how many damps you run. Damps do not work at all ranges, and profile is not more powerful than a precision when precision is shared six ways.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.05.13 16:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vell0cet wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:An amarr scout will pick up almost every other dropsuit at 15m or less. How long does it take to detect a scout behind you, turn, aim, fire and kill your target? How long does it take that scout to close from 15m to shotgun range and kill you? Damps are inherently more powerful than precision enhancers, because for precision enhancers to really be effective, they need to be combined with enough range to be able to react and neutralize the target when you still have the range advantage. Damps work at all ranges. I don't buy this argument. First and foremost, Scouts don't automatically spawn 15m behind you; it takes awhile to single-out, flank and stalk a target. Secondly, I can't help my squadmates beat scans by stacking damps, but I can absolutely stack precision enhancers and share my passives 6 ways. I do exactly that on my uparmored, 3x precision Recon GalLogi (which also has three 200m, 90 degree, 21 dB, team-wide active scanners). The role of the Amarr Scout is to hunt other scouts. If you don't detect them unless they're within 15m, and that doesn't give you enough range advantage to actually kill them before they can shotgun you then there is a problem. I really don't understand your first point. Of course enemies have to stalk you; I don't see how that factors into the equation. As to your 2nd point about passive scans helping your squad, that's true, but it requires you to linger decoloaked in the middle of combat in a very low HP suit. The fact that you give only 15m of range to help pick up enemy scouts is a pretty poor payoff for so many drawbacks, when, as you say, you can fit a gallogi to provide much more utility in the form of active and passive scans.
Then I guess I misunderstood, and we're on the same page. The role of the AM Scout used to be high-intensity/short-range recon and counter-infiltration. That role was overwritten by Falloff last December, and subsequent the rise of the Recon GalLogi. In my opinion, the AM Scout was left without a role; anything it can do can be done far better by another unit.
I'm of the opinion that (1) the AM Scout bonus should be replaced and (2) that the Recon GalLogi has more going for it than the recon units we nerfed for being overpowered.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.05.13 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
It wasnt really overwritten, since its now actually more effective at it than before. Before passive scan tier zones, there was no way you could pump AM Scout precision high enough to detect any damped up scout, but now you can (though only in the inner zone where it arguably is too late). Not sure what to do about it since passive scans ARE pretty strong if they work strongly at longer ranges.
Its a pretty difficult balance conundrum.
More effective? Max AM Scout precision was 18dB between HF Charlie and Falloff. GA/CA Scouts needed 2x damps and MN/AM needed 3x damps to beat these scans. That 18dB reached out to 60m with two range extenders, and you'd have two low slots remaining for tank/utility. This recon unit was still very squishy, but with 60m scans you had a chance at avoiding enemy LoS and insta-gib.
That isn't the case today. Today, the same loadout gets 18dB scans out to a pathetic 19m and 23dB scans out to 39m. A merc seeking to run recon is in every way better off running GalLogi. A Field Commander looking to field recon is in every way better off fielding a GalLogi.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.05.14 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
It wasnt really overwritten, since its now actually more effective at it than before. Before passive scan tier zones, there was no way you could pump AM Scout precision high enough to detect any damped up scout, but now you can (though only in the inner zone where it arguably is too late). Not sure what to do about it since passive scans ARE pretty strong if they work strongly at longer ranges.
Its a pretty difficult balance conundrum.
More effective? Max AM Scout precision was 18dB between HF Charlie and Falloff. GA/CA Scouts needed 2x damps and MN/AM needed 3x damps to beat these scans. That 18dB reached out to 60m with two range extenders, and you'd have two low slots remaining for tank/utility. This recon unit was still very squishy, but with 60m scans you had a chance at avoiding enemy LoS and insta-gib. That isn't the case today. Today, the same loadout gets 18dB scans out to a pathetic 19m and 23dB scans out to 39m. A merc seeking to run recon is in every way better off running GalLogi. A Field Commander looking to field recon is in every way better off fielding a GalLogi. 1. Isnt the inner ring alot stronger than the old scans? 2. I feel like your numbers are wrong, but I concede I havent looked into this in a while
1. The AM Scout (like most units) has an unbeatable inner ring at 2 precision enhancers. Not really an "edge" if everyone else but heavies can do exactly the same.
2. Protofits scan values are up-to-date. Have a look! Not making this stuff up; the AM Scout truly got boned.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Posted - 2015.05.14 12:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote: The old days were broken, but the Amarr scout is currently in lousy shape.
Agreed. Though I'd argue that today's GalLogis are more broken than any past recon unit. I've run them all, and all but the GalLogi were wholly unsuited for combat. Its scans are as strong (if not stronger), its recon is shared teamwide, and unlike any recon scout ever, it has enough HP to hold its own in a fight.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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