DUST Search - To the Matchmaker complaints

Vell0cet wrote:

Regis Blackbird wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

If you ever go above 5 minutes waiting for pubs, you should either exit and try again...

Just trying to understand this. Is this due to a bug? It seems like the system should be designed to auto-refresh itself server side without the user even knowing it's happening?

Also, why is it that I'll wait 3 minutes to get into a match, only to have many players missing (more than 6 on my team--so I can assume it's not like it was full and then a squad left to create the opening) and the match be well underway? Why didn't it just put me into that match immediately if there were open slots to fill? Is it trying to look for a better Mu fit first?

I'm not trying to bash the matchmaker, overall it is an improvement, but Scotty is doing things that really make me scratch my head. I'm just trying to understand the mechanics better.

...Regarding your comment about not filling empty spots: there were huge complaints from players (including myself) who joined matches which were effectivly over (last ticks on MCC / only a few clones left). With the new matchmaking empty spots will not be filled (after a time) for this exact reason. If they compensate for people leaving, those complaints will rise again. It's a chicken and egg thing...

My suspicion is that "leaving matches" was as common before as now, but then the matches were constantly refilled until the end. So this is not a new problem, it's just much more visible after the MM update.

It does add me to the match though. It just waits several minutes to do it, that's what I don't get.

Let's say a match starts and it's 10 v 8 and it's been going for a few minutes. Now I queue up and it makes me wait another 3 minutes in the queue before adding me to the match. Why am I waiting at all if there is an existing match with available slots? You'd think Scotty would see the empty slots and stick me in immediately once I queue up right?


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Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 827	Posted - 2015.05.05 20:00:00 - [1] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: If you ever go above 5 minutes waiting for pubs, you should either exit and try again... Just trying to understand this. Is this due to a bug? It seems like the system should be designed to auto-refresh itself server side without the user even knowing it's happening? Also, why is it that I'll wait 3 minutes to get into a match, only to have many players missing (more than 6 on my team--so I can assume it's not like it was full and then a squad left to create the opening) and the match be well underway? Why didn't it just put me into that match immediately if there were open slots to fill? Is it trying to look for a better Mu fit first? I'm not trying to bash the matchmaker, overall it is an improvement, but Scotty is doing things that really make me scratch my head. I'm just trying to understand the mechanics better. My experience is that my first battle of the day take longer times to find, and is generally a poor one (join half finished games etc). For some reason I can't explain, this fixes itself by the second and future games?? It's like some variables are not set when you initially log in, and you need a game (or cancel and requeue) to initialise it... Regarding your comment about not filling empty spots: there were huge complaints from players (including myself) who joined matches which were effectivly over (last ticks on MCC / only a few clones left). With the new matchmaking empty spots will not be filled (after a time) for this exact reason. If they compensate for people leaving, those complaints will rise again. It's a chicken and egg thing... My suspicion is that "leaving matches" was as common before as now, but then the matches were constantly refilled until the end. So this is not a new problem, it's just much more visible after the MM update.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 827	Posted - 2015.05.05 20:43:00 - [2] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: If you ever go above 5 minutes waiting for pubs, you should either exit and try again... Just trying to understand this. Is this due to a bug? It seems like the system should be designed to auto-refresh itself server side without the user even knowing it's happening? Also, why is it that I'll wait 3 minutes to get into a match, only to have many players missing (more than 6 on my team--so I can assume it's not like it was full and then a squad left to create the opening) and the match be well underway? Why didn't it just put me into that match immediately if there were open slots to fill? Is it trying to look for a better Mu fit first? I'm not trying to bash the matchmaker, overall it is an improvement, but Scotty is doing things that really make me scratch my head. I'm just trying to understand the mechanics better. ...Regarding your comment about not filling empty spots: there were huge complaints from players (including myself) who joined matches which were effectivly over (last ticks on MCC / only a few clones left). With the new matchmaking empty spots will not be filled (after a time) for this exact reason. If they compensate for people leaving, those complaints will rise again. It's a chicken and egg thing... My suspicion is that "leaving matches" was as common before as now, but then the matches were constantly refilled until the end. So this is not a new problem, it's just much more visible after the MM update. It does add me to the match though. It just waits several minutes to do it, that's what I don't get. Let's say a match starts and it's 10 v 8 and it's been going for a few minutes. Now I queue up and it makes me wait another 3 minutes in the queue before adding me to the match. Why am I waiting at all if there is an existing match with available slots? You'd think Scotty would see the empty slots and stick me in immediately once I queue up right? But can you be sure it started with 10 vs 8? Perhaps it started with 16 vs 16 (leaving no room at all), or 15 vs 14 but your Mu was too high to fit either side? Then after a few minutes people start to leave reducing the team to 10 vs 8, making room for you. Sadly I have seen cases where (probably) two full q-synced squads leave battle well into the match, leaving the rest of the game 16 vs 3. Even if the Matchmaker tries to fill up again, the new players will also leave once they see they are totally outnumbered. I think players leaving games are the biggest mennace we have right now in Dust. They even blame the Matchmaker without (apparently) realising that by leaving early they themselfs screws up the matchmaking process.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 829	Posted - 2015.05.06 05:17:00 - [3] - Quote Heracles Porsche wrote: A lot of players are loving the new matchmaking system, but my initial experiences were quite bad. Being a vet, and having a period of time where I played during off-peak hours probably contributed to the system generating much worse games for me then most players were experiencing. However, since matches are getting better I'm glad I didn't rush my judgement on it. my video on this topic should up on youtube soon, http://youtu.be/GoQKn5Cr5NY I think this is a very interesting point. Most of the complaints I have seen are from very good Vet players, who's Mu was probably very high from the outset. I don't dismiss that they might be Gods of FPS, but maybe their Mu was artificially high due to the non-existing matchmaker we had before. 1) This would make it very hard to find equal Mu players, resulting in long wait times (and probably a few Scotty errors). 2) People will recognise their names (and corp) and might be more likely to leave before match start. 3) They themselfs might be more prone to leave when they face stiff competition? 4) whatever other reason they have Now to the point: I don't know what happens to your Mu if you leave early. Will it be untouched? Is it just adjusted for the time you were in-game? My suspicion is that Mu does not change much, thus making them keep their high Mu scores and continue to have the same problems. If you stick in the games, the score will eventually adjust itself but it might take some time. Of course, it could also be that the pool of players with the super high (accurate) Mu is very small, leading to the above problem but will sadly not get fixed...
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 829	Posted - 2015.05.06 06:14:00 - [4] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: MockHolliday wrote: I wonder if allowing no names to be seen on enemy team would curb and by how much players leaving in the 1st minute. Trying to fool players into participating in poorly matched battles isn't the solution. Vesta's solution is better. Leave battle and give match making another chance. I have to respectfully disagree. That will make the problem worse, not better. What we need is a carrot for staying to the end, so the matchmaker can get some rest and acctually do its job. Rattati suggested in another tread an increased payout for a win. While good in itself, couple this with a multiplier factor which reduces the payout in case of leaving early. Leaving once or twice should not penalise you too much of course, to cover disconnects and missing squad members. TDLR: If you constantly quit early your payout stays as today, win or loose. If you stick with it you will see Increaced payouts for a win.
Regis Blackbird Dust University Ivy League 829	Posted - 2015.05.06 11:08:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP requires players to go out and buy recording equipment and then to spend all their time recording partly filled / mostly finished matches, in order to consider verifying that it's a thing. If there were enough players playing to fill up spaces as they were made, it wouldn't matter so much. However, when a few people start to drop right off the bat, the scales pretty much never tip back. I barely play compared to a lot of you neckbeards, and I still run into this plenty. But, since I can't be bothered to do CCPs documenting, I'm making it up to stir dissent CCP have publicly asked for feedback and to give them data to double check. Instead of buying a recording equipment, why not give: - The rough time (UTC) of the match - Type of match - The character name you played with - Brefily what was wrong with it. Put it in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2706225#post2706225 Then bother CCP AquaHEAD about it.