DUST Search - Okay, seriously, what is up with matchmaking?

Ares 514 wrote:

Flaylock Steve wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Constantly there are matches with things like 6v15, 8v14, 1v10, etc.

Since the matchmaking update, I don't think I've had a single match that was a full 16v16. Or one that was reasonably balanced, for that matter - naturally, as a result of there typically being an overwhelming numbers disparity, matches aren't balanced.

What is going on?

This isn't an isolated problem. This is consistently happening, match after match. Why? I've heard that it's because people leave one side, but that isn't the case either - I've had a number of matches that start horrendously imbalanced and finish so. I've even had a match where it added players to the team with more players rather than the one struggling for numbers. If players leaving is really a problem, can't we add some back?

It's not even just the team balancing, really. There seem to be countless problems with the matchmaker. Today one of my squadmates was stuck on an eternal loading screen and the battle told the rest of the squad that he'd 'left', despite the match being nowhere near full and him being on comms with us. Scotty errors happen frequently. It's even taking longer to find matches, despite the glaring issues with the matchmaker.

And if something does go wrong, there's no way to correct it. You can no longer see who's in your squad via the chat menu, and can't look at any players in chat channels once you're in a match. You can't invite people to squad. How are PC teams expected to form under these circumstances? One DC and you're a man down and you can't correct it, even if you have several minutes.

Why are these matches so unbalanced? What is going on?

Because of what he said

Ripley Riley wrote:

saxonmish wrote:

... since this matchmaking thing. its usually 7 v 12

anyone know how it works?

Either players are leaving and not getting replaced OR your mu score is high enough where in order to balance the match the matchmaker is pitting you against more players. To hyper simplify it...

Player | Mu
A | 5
B | 5
C | 5
D | 5
E | 5

Total: 25

Now for the other team...

A | 7
B | 8
C | 5
D | 5

Total: 25

Team 1 and 2's mu score totals are 25, but team 1 has 5 players while team 2 has 4 players. The match is balanced though the teams aren't even.

Even if that's the case, which I doubt, screw mu score and always make sure it's 16 vs 16. I personally almost find this game unplayable some days and have heard a ton of complaints from corp members and other players.

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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23745	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:20:00 - [1] - Quote Constantly there are matches with things like 6v15, 8v14, 1v10, etc. Since the matchmaking update, I don't think I've had a single match that was a full 16v16. Or one that was reasonably balanced, for that matter - naturally, as a result of there typically being an overwhelming numbers disparity, matches aren't balanced. What is going on? This isn't an isolated problem. This is consistently happening, match after match. Why? I've heard that it's because people leave one side, but that isn't the case either - I've had a number of matches that start horrendously imbalanced and finish so. I've even had a match where it added players to the team with more players rather than the one struggling for numbers. If players leaving is really a problem, can't we add some back? It's not even just the team balancing, really. There seem to be countless problems with the matchmaker. Today one of my squadmates was stuck on an eternal loading screen and the battle told the rest of the squad that he'd 'left', despite the match being nowhere near full and him being on comms with us. Scotty errors happen frequently. It's even taking longer to find matches, despite the glaring issues with the matchmaker. And if something does go wrong, there's no way to correct it. You can no longer see who's in your squad via the chat menu, and can't look at any players in chat channels once you're in a match. You can't invite people to squad. How are PC teams expected to form under these circumstances? One DC and you're a man down and you can't correct it, even if you have several minutes. Why are these matches so unbalanced? What is going on? Supreme Forum Warrior Gallente Guide
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1331	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:26:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Shanghai left a lot of..... poorly created code behind, and expected a separate team to be able to decode it. This kind of stuff happens when you change languages, or have poorly documented code.... but when you have both... it kind of exaggerates the strain. As to the core issue of "why"? That's something only the programmers can currently tell us. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. 930	Posted - 2015.05.03 23:55:00 - [3] - Quote I think one of the biggest problems with the matchmaker is it overvalues lifetime sp, and undervalues squads. And obviously, it doesn't correctly estimate the strength in numbers. Running solo I will constantly be thrown into games that start out as 11v15, a squad and a half of decent players using teamwork on the other side while my team has half a squad of skilled players and about 8 scrubby blueberrys. I have no way of knowing how good my team mates really are because a few of them leave immediately when they see they are outnumbered, and the rest play it safe and sacrifice the win for survival. I see a lot of threads trying to address this problem through punishing people for leaving, but honestly thats not fixing the problem at the source thats punishing people who run away from it. The REAL problem is that teams should NEVER have an unequal amount of players, even if the MU scores of an 11v15 are even, most likely those of the 11 are going to assume they are about to be rolled. Some will leave, some will play cowardly. That leaves the rest that will actually try to win and get gunned down 3v15 at the objectives.They leave too, now its a 6v15, those six are are still guarding their groundspawn and other easily defensible non objective locations to farm kills, and the match ends in total defeat for the 11. TL;DR MU scores doesn't account for player mentality or outnumbering intimidation, adding deserter punishments isn't going to fix the problem when people are still afraid to stay in their 11v15 matches. Fix match making, fix squad deploy problems so 5 people don't back out immediately, and FFS give take some of the people in a 10 min queue wait and send them as reinforcements for those 11. The Official Ari QQ Thread
Flaylock Steve Nos Nothi 853	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:11:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Constantly there are matches with things like 6v15, 8v14, 1v10, etc. Since the matchmaking update, I don't think I've had a single match that was a full 16v16. Or one that was reasonably balanced, for that matter - naturally, as a result of there typically being an overwhelming numbers disparity, matches aren't balanced. What is going on? This isn't an isolated problem. This is consistently happening, match after match. Why? I've heard that it's because people leave one side, but that isn't the case either - I've had a number of matches that start horrendously imbalanced and finish so. I've even had a match where it added players to the team with more players rather than the one struggling for numbers. If players leaving is really a problem, can't we add some back? It's not even just the team balancing, really. There seem to be countless problems with the matchmaker. Today one of my squadmates was stuck on an eternal loading screen and the battle told the rest of the squad that he'd 'left', despite the match being nowhere near full and him being on comms with us. Scotty errors happen frequently. It's even taking longer to find matches, despite the glaring issues with the matchmaker. And if something does go wrong, there's no way to correct it. You can no longer see who's in your squad via the chat menu, and can't look at any players in chat channels once you're in a match. You can't invite people to squad. How are PC teams expected to form under these circumstances? One DC and you're a man down and you can't correct it, even if you have several minutes. Why are these matches so unbalanced? What is going on? Because of what he said Ripley Riley wrote: saxonmish wrote: ... since this matchmaking thing. its usually 7 v 12 anyone know how it works? Either players are leaving and not getting replaced OR your mu score is high enough where in order to balance the match the matchmaker is pitting you against more players. To hyper simplify it... Player \| Mu A \| 5 B \| 5 C \| 5 D \| 5 E \| 5 Total: 25 Now for the other team... A \| 7 B \| 8 C \| 5 D \| 5 Total: 25 Team 1 and 2's mu score totals are 25, but team 1 has 5 players while team 2 has 4 players. The match is balanced though the teams aren't even.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1505	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:19:00 - [5] - Quote Flaylock Steve wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Constantly there are matches with things like 6v15, 8v14, 1v10, etc. Since the matchmaking update, I don't think I've had a single match that was a full 16v16. Or one that was reasonably balanced, for that matter - naturally, as a result of there typically being an overwhelming numbers disparity, matches aren't balanced. What is going on? This isn't an isolated problem. This is consistently happening, match after match. Why? I've heard that it's because people leave one side, but that isn't the case either - I've had a number of matches that start horrendously imbalanced and finish so. I've even had a match where it added players to the team with more players rather than the one struggling for numbers. If players leaving is really a problem, can't we add some back? It's not even just the team balancing, really. There seem to be countless problems with the matchmaker. Today one of my squadmates was stuck on an eternal loading screen and the battle told the rest of the squad that he'd 'left', despite the match being nowhere near full and him being on comms with us. Scotty errors happen frequently. It's even taking longer to find matches, despite the glaring issues with the matchmaker. And if something does go wrong, there's no way to correct it. You can no longer see who's in your squad via the chat menu, and can't look at any players in chat channels once you're in a match. You can't invite people to squad. How are PC teams expected to form under these circumstances? One DC and you're a man down and you can't correct it, even if you have several minutes. Why are these matches so unbalanced? What is going on? Because of what he said Ripley Riley wrote: saxonmish wrote: ... since this matchmaking thing. its usually 7 v 12 anyone know how it works? Either players are leaving and not getting replaced OR your mu score is high enough where in order to balance the match the matchmaker is pitting you against more players. To hyper simplify it... Player \| Mu A \| 5 B \| 5 C \| 5 D \| 5 E \| 5 Total: 25 Now for the other team... A \| 7 B \| 8 C \| 5 D \| 5 Total: 25 Team 1 and 2's mu score totals are 25, but team 1 has 5 players while team 2 has 4 players. The match is balanced though the teams aren't even. Even if that's the case, which I doubt, screw mu score and always make sure it's 16 vs 16. I personally almost find this game unplayable some days and have heard a ton of complaints from corp members and other players. Overlord of Broman
Flaylock Steve Nos Nothi 853	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:21:00 - [6] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Flaylock Steve wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Constantly there are matches with things like 6v15, 8v14, 1v10, etc. Since the matchmaking update, I don't think I've had a single match that was a full 16v16. Or one that was reasonably balanced, for that matter - naturally, as a result of there typically being an overwhelming numbers disparity, matches aren't balanced. What is going on? This isn't an isolated problem. This is consistently happening, match after match. Why? I've heard that it's because people leave one side, but that isn't the case either - I've had a number of matches that start horrendously imbalanced and finish so. I've even had a match where it added players to the team with more players rather than the one struggling for numbers. If players leaving is really a problem, can't we add some back? It's not even just the team balancing, really. There seem to be countless problems with the matchmaker. Today one of my squadmates was stuck on an eternal loading screen and the battle told the rest of the squad that he'd 'left', despite the match being nowhere near full and him being on comms with us. Scotty errors happen frequently. It's even taking longer to find matches, despite the glaring issues with the matchmaker. And if something does go wrong, there's no way to correct it. You can no longer see who's in your squad via the chat menu, and can't look at any players in chat channels once you're in a match. You can't invite people to squad. How are PC teams expected to form under these circumstances? One DC and you're a man down and you can't correct it, even if you have several minutes. Why are these matches so unbalanced? What is going on? Because of what he said Ripley Riley wrote: saxonmish wrote: ... since this matchmaking thing. its usually 7 v 12 anyone know how it works? Either players are leaving and not getting replaced OR your mu score is high enough where in order to balance the match the matchmaker is pitting you against more players. To hyper simplify it... Player \| Mu A \| 5 B \| 5 C \| 5 D \| 5 E \| 5 Total: 25 Now for the other team... A \| 7 B \| 8 C \| 5 D \| 5 Total: 25 Team 1 and 2's mu score totals are 25, but team 1 has 5 players while team 2 has 4 players. The match is balanced though the teams aren't even. Even if that's the case, which I doubt, screw mu score and always make sure it's 16 vs 16. I personally almost find this game unplayable some days and have heard a ton of complaints from corp members and other players. Matchmaking should only put players based on gamemode, not freaking mu score. Or at least restric proto type gear from pubs then it wouldn't be such a stomp
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1284	Posted - 2015.05.04 01:30:00 - [7] - Quote Flaylock Steve wrote: Matchmaking should only put players based on gamemode, not freaking mu score. Or at least restric proto type gear from pubs then it wouldn't be such a stomp Gear restrictions would be about as dumb a solution as it gets. Just say good buy to every solo player in the game if they can't use the gear they fought for. Guess what not every body plays PC or Q-syncs FW, some of us actually enjoy the challenge of taking on the world all on our own. Limit what I and other soloer's can run in pubs and watch em leave. Far better to just un-**** the new matchmaking system and loosen the restrictions of what ever brilliant equation is behind mu, or scale squad size across game modes. 4 for pubs and bigger for the modes corporations are supposed to be spending their time on like FW and PC. Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23755	Posted - 2015.05.04 08:21:00 - [8] - Quote Flaylock Steve wrote: Because of what he said Ripley Riley wrote: Either players are leaving and not getting replaced OR your mu score is high enough where in order to balance the match the matchmaker is pitting you against more players. To hyper simplify it... Player \| Mu A \| 5 B \| 5 C \| 5 D \| 5 E \| 5 Total: 25 Now for the other team... A \| 7 B \| 8 C \| 5 D \| 5 Total: 25 Team 1 and 2's mu score totals are 25, but team 1 has 5 players while team 2 has 4 players. The match is balanced though the teams aren't even. I don't believe this. I have had cases such as this: http://i.imgur.com/z2UjWec.jpg In this picture, the player 'nico pereas' is being put up against a full FA squad and full team. He's from a starter corp. He cannot possibly have a mu score that is so high that he's considered the equivalent of an entire team. Not only that, but midway through the match another player joined and he joined the side that was packed with high level players. There's something seriously wrong there. Supreme Forum Warrior Gallente Guide
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 818	Posted - 2015.05.04 10:03:00 - [9] - Quote It's strange, I have checked the player list for my matches, and it's usually two full teams (or very close). All games in general are very evenly matched as well, so for me at least it seems to work. Of course there are some odd cases, but of my 10+ games yesterday I had like 1-2 really bad where half the team left, resulting in a stomp. Besides, one of the biggest complaints players had prior to the matchmaking update was to enter battles which was effectivly over. If the team should be "refilled" during the game for people leaving, the newly added people will complain about just that. Personally I think the new matchmaking is working apart from one thing: The human factor (= people leaving)
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3373	Posted - 2015.05.04 10:22:00 - [10] - Quote Stack all players by lethality, with pre-made squads being an average of individual lethality. Divvy into matches, and teams then have an average lethality. If players drop, MM places only players of similar lethality to the team lethality in that match. Stomp stops, and backing out becomes pointless, so it stops. As of April 9, 2015, we have about 330 days of DUST 514 left. Enjoy them!

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1507	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:14:00 - [11] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: It's strange, I have checked the player list for my matches, and it's usually two full teams (or very close). All games in general are very evenly matched as well, so for me at least it seems to work. Of course there are some odd cases, but of my 10+ games yesterday I had like 1-2 really bad where half the team left, resulting in a stomp. Besides, one of the biggest complaints players had prior to the matchmaking update was to enter battles which was effectivly over. If the team should be "refilled" during the game for people leaving, the newly added people will complain about just that. Personally I think the new matchmaking is working apart from one thing: The human factor (= people leaving) It's really weird that some players seem to think it's working. I can only question are you playing Skirmish? That seems to be the only game mode working correctly to me and others i play with. Overlord of Broman
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23773	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:16:00 - [12] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Stack all players by lethality, with pre-made squads being an average of individual lethality. Divvy into matches, and teams then have an average lethality. If players drop, MM places only players of similar lethality to the team lethality in that match. Stomp stops, and backing out becomes pointless, so it stops. This doesn't work. How does that factor in support players, for example? It's like OCD, only with invasions. - Cat Merc Gallente Guide
7th Son 7 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 924	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:25:00 - [13] - Quote The two things that seem to take my head out of the game are Lag and Uneven Teams, when this happens it ensures I will be done playing Dust faster than expected. Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ------------- OSHO
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23774	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:26:00 - [14] - Quote 7th Son 7 wrote: The two things that seem to take my head out of the game are Lag and Uneven Teams, when this happens it ensures I will be done playing Dust faster than expected. You're not the only one. It's like OCD, only with invasions. - Cat Merc Gallente Guide
Her Chosen Grade No.2 265	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote Problem is on CCP's end, and Players end. CCP's problem: unbalanced teams. Either 7v16 to start, or just a stacked team against noobs. Player's problem: Seeing a decent enemy team and massive battle exits, causing the left behind players just to exit as well. If 1/2 my team leaves battle at the start of the match, I just leave too. No sense in fighting 8 v 16; knowing CCP won't fill out my team in time for my side to have a chance. However, I've noticed massive disconnects occurring as well. Which could be another reason for uneven matches. Just last night 1/2 my team DC'd, along with 1/2 of the other team. However, matching making quickly replaced those missing players within seconds. Which leads me to believe the game is trying the que to many people into the same game, or not trying to que anyone at all. LATEST UPLOAD
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 819	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:33:00 - [16] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: It's strange, I have checked the player list for my matches, and it's usually two full teams (or very close). All games in general are very evenly matched as well, so for me at least it seems to work. Of course there are some odd cases, but of my 10+ games yesterday I had like 1-2 really bad where half the team left, resulting in a stomp. Besides, one of the biggest complaints players had prior to the matchmaking update was to enter battles which was effectivly over. If the team should be "refilled" during the game for people leaving, the newly added people will complain about just that. Personally I think the new matchmaking is working apart from one thing: The human factor (= people leaving) It's really weird that some players seem to think it's working. I can only question are you playing Skirmish? That seems to be the only game mode working correctly to me and others i play with. I usually select all queues when I play solo, since I don't have a preference. Yesterday I got a good mix of Acquisition, Skirmish, Domination and even one Ambush (if I remember correctly). Of the two games that were loopsided yesterday, it was weird. Initially we had full 16vs16 and quite intensive fights (we probably had the advantage, but they gave us real resistance). Then it just stopped... I checked again and the other team only had three players left. Either we had a mass disconnect, or like two full squads left the match. Spent the rest of the game driving my LAV out the redline (to see how far I got). Note to self: when deliberately suiciding, equip a BPO rather than your Proto Logi
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1508	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:39:00 - [17] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: It's strange, I have checked the player list for my matches, and it's usually two full teams (or very close). All games in general are very evenly matched as well, so for me at least it seems to work. Of course there are some odd cases, but of my 10+ games yesterday I had like 1-2 really bad where half the team left, resulting in a stomp. Besides, one of the biggest complaints players had prior to the matchmaking update was to enter battles which was effectivly over. If the team should be "refilled" during the game for people leaving, the newly added people will complain about just that. Personally I think the new matchmaking is working apart from one thing: The human factor (= people leaving) It's really weird that some players seem to think it's working. I can only question are you playing Skirmish? That seems to be the only game mode working correctly to me and others i play with. I usually select all queues when I play solo, since I don't have a preference. Yesterday I got a good mix of Acquisition, Skirmish, Domination and even one Ambush (if I remember correctly). Of the two games that were loopsided yesterday, it was weird. Initially we had full 16vs16 and quite intensive fights (we probably had the advantage, but they gave us real resistance). Then it just stopped... I checked again and the other team only had three players left. Either we had a mass disconnect, or like two full squads left the match. Spent the rest of the game driving my LAV out the redline (to see how far I got). Note to self: when deliberately suiciding, equip a BPO rather than your Proto Logi So something is really weird if you can get 16vs16 domination's. I stopped playing the game mode (my favourite) since I can't get even player count in matches and never full ones. Maybe it's play time or maybe some people have weird mu stuff going on, but if CCP looks at my stats for non skirmish battles it's a sad site to see. Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1508	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:42:00 - [18] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: The two things that seem to take my head out of the game are Lag and Uneven Teams, when this happens it ensures I will be done playing Dust faster than expected. You're not the only one. It's weird, the lag for me since this build is out is worse. Last night i had to leave one battle since it was a damn slide show a couple minutes in. Most of my battles last night had some to really bad lag. Seems like some corps (EU, Spanish speaking) cause me to lag to all hell where as in the past there would only be a bit of lag here and there if there were a bunch in the battle. Overlord of Broman
Patt MaCrotch Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 110	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:04:00 - [19] - Quote Working as intended for CCP, i'm sure. There are a lot of the vets that have a stockpile of ISK and CCP has to have a way to bleed those players down in order to, hopefully, make them buy Aurum. Putting these players in blatantly mismatched battles is a good way to do this. Sure these players should be able to handle a little bit of a disadvantage as far as being outnumbered. But what my corp mates and I have experienced is not fun. A squad of six of us could handle 6v8 or maybe 6v10 of moderate skill level players. We seem to get put in matches with a good amount of blueberries, on our side (great, cannon foder), against a proto squad and their good amount of blueberries. Then it's just a matter of who's blueberries leave first and who's blueberries have balls enough to stay. More times than not it is our blueberries that leave then we are facing a proto squad and their blueberries, 6v12 or 9v15, etc. etc. I have weathered a lot of sh#t from CCP with the shotty programming and bugs, but the recent matchmaking may be the final straw. I will stick around a little bit longer but if they do not do something about it...... my days of Dust514 may not be long for this world. Funny how so many people (I've posted up about it) are complaining about this but no response from CCP. Further makes me think that it is working just as they want.
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3375	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:12:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Stack all players by lethality, with pre-made squads being an average of individual lethality. Divvy into matches, and teams then have an average lethality. If players drop, MM places only players of similar lethality to the team lethality in that match. Stomp stops, and backing out becomes pointless, so it stops. This doesn't work. How does that factor in support players, for example? Kdr is the game, all other factors are merely the canvas upon which kdr is painted. Once you stop stomp, kdr normalizes and support roles rise in value, as they are the new difference between wins and losses. As of April 9, 2015, we have about 330 days of DUST 514 left. Enjoy them!



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