Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
355
   |
Posted - 2015.04.28 10:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
we have been thinking long and hard about a way to make winning battles lucrative, and maybe throwing caution to the wind to do so.
What do you think of two (or both) ways of increasing your reward.
This bonus reward would only be for the winner, loser would get the normal payout
Winner reward would be normal current payout + x% of own personal losses + y% of personally inflicted losses
x and y to be decided
I don't see an easy exploit to this system and it would mean that you would commit proto to claim the battle, instead of hunkering back in starter loadouts.
Errr... there's a few different dynamics and goals intersecting here and some of them are conflicting.
We want players to push themselves hard against evenly matched opponents who are also pushing themselves hard.
Such play is incredibly fun, and almost the definition of "flow".
To encourage this there are a number of mechanics we can use. A few are:
1: Try and measure good battlefield actions and reward them.
2: Reward winning.
3: Lessen the costs of playing hard.
(Note there are many more things we can do besides this; these are just a few key examples.)
#1 we are already doing with the present EOM reward being based on WP.
#2 we are doing already in FW and in PC. ...I'm going to embarrass myself here and admit I don't know if we're doing this right now in pubs.
For #3 we presentably have little in the way of direct mechanics for this.
This new system is meant to strengthen any existing mechanics for #2 and add a mechanic for #3.
Which sounds great in and of itself. But the problem is this mechanic does not exist with in a vacuum.
It has to be taken in context of the other systems.
In-match right now, there is a mechanic where players can see whether their team is winning or losing before the match is even over. This leads to the dynamic (intentional or otherwise) where players who feel they are highly likely to lose decide their best play is simply to mitigate their losses and turtle up in the red-line. This leads to the side in the lead to realize they are facing less resistance and thus less risk, and so they can more safely bring their expense powerful gear to bear.
These two things are recursive, and a small lead in the beginning can quickly lead to a near unbreakable redline situation.
The definition of bad snowballing.
If we lessen the cost of bringing the best gear to fight only for the winning side it won't encourage everyone to bring their best gear; only the likely winners. This will greatly exacerbate the redline snowballing situation.
YES, we want to reward winning.
YES, we want to encourage playing hard.
YES, for intensity, diversity and progression we want to encourage players to use their best gear, BUT, we need to find a way to do so that doesn't worsen Protostomping.
My 2 ISK: Give the present payout AND the new %lost & %destroyed payout to BOTH sides; and then give the winner an additional flat bonus (Flat bonus can be ISK or salvage. And can be static or ratio of match-time, but not ratio of gear lost/destroyed.)
TL;DR:
If we lessen the cost to the likely-winner for deploying Proto gear, the already existing disparity of Proto deployment ("Protostomping") between likely-winners and likely-losers will get worse, not better. If we want to make fights bloodier, lessen the cost for deploying Proto for both teams. |
Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
360
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:What's wrong with sharing ISK based on warpoints rather than kills? Otherwise it's unfair on people who contribute without focus on killing. Isn't that the whole point of the warpoint system?
Otherwise I like the idea. Especially getting back a portion of loss if you win. It seems refunding loss is a much better idea overall, and I agree contribution should be measured in WP. However, it is a shooty killy gamed, and someone who destroys proto suits and tanks, still only gets 50WP. That reminds me of the good idea of boosted WP if using a weaker suit, that would serve a similar purpose.
That idea's been around for a while and it would be fantastic.  |