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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19387
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Posted - 2015.04.27 17:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:Caldari = Sniper Rifle Gallente = Shotgun Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = Laser Rifle
Why can't the Caldari have our own Mass Drivers, Shotguns, and Laser RIfles?
No mass drivers are in the same support weapon class as
Gallente = placon Caldari = Swarm Launcher Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = laser rifle
This all old information now; as it stands atm any weapon class can have parity just the question of why needs to be seriously asked first ahead of time. Parity for parity stakes is just throwing a reskinned weapon in that doesnt feel that much different.
For example a Gallente mass driver I want to see fire a drone launcher instead with very limited homing capability to replace its splash damage the mass driver normally enjoys.
A Gallente missile launcher being a harpy launcher; fires a drone that follows the javelin style of attack screaming on its way in. Able to do land locking for some tower removal.
Every new weapon should be more about what it does to the game first then figuring out who should have it and then where to shove it in accordance. There are lots of weapon profiles out there we can barrow for this game easily and keep things interesting but each one has to be analyzed carefully.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
25
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Posted - 2015.04.27 17:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
I love my TSR. It would really suck if I couldn't use it.
CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
639
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Posted - 2015.04.27 18:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Hejj all...
Been thinking about the sniper rifle. It is so general a weapon group and so varied in its handling:
How about making the regular sniper rifle the Minmatar one [SixKin], making the tactical sniper rifle Gallente [Allotek], and having the Charge Sniper Rifle for Amarr [Carthum] ? Since I find it a bit hard to think of massively new ways the sniper rifle could work for other races than the ones we have already, this seemed to be the easiest way to have almost every Commando profit from it. The Caldari Commando would have none, but be able to partially compensate with his high fitting slot he has over the other Commandos.
What's your opinion on this? In case you have completely new takes on sniper rifles for other races, please feel free to post away, Iam very eager to read those...
Adding parity by re-purposing existing weapons doesnt appeal to me very much.
Also the Cal Commando is already useless at anything besides redline sniping, so Im not sure why you would want to take away the only thing that makes them worth it. Its easily the worst suit in the game, it doesnt need to get screwed out of yet another role it can do, I mean they already got screwed out of the swarm launcher, which is a caldari weapon, and they are screwed out of any kind of fighting that doesnt involve being behind cover 70-80 meters away from the enemy because their regen, health, slot layout, stamina, and speed, which are all crap, combined with the rail rifle nerf which disproportionately ****** over the Cal Commando's short range capabilities.
I guess what Im saying is: buff cal commando (and all commandos, but cal commando is particularly bad) |
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2830
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Posted - 2015.04.27 18:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:sir RAVEN WING wrote:Caldari = Sniper Rifle Gallente = Shotgun Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = Laser Rifle
Why can't the Caldari have our own Mass Drivers, Shotguns, and Laser RIfles? No mass drivers are in the same support weapon class as Gallente = placon Caldari = Swarm Launcher Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = laser rifle
But all of those except the laser are 'launcher' class weapons.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Templar XIII
162
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Posted - 2015.04.27 18:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Adding parity by re-purposing existing weapons doesnt appeal to me very much. Also the Cal Commando is already useless at anything besides redline sniping, so Im not sure why you would want to take away the only thing that makes them worth it. Its easily the worst suit in the game, it doesnt need to get screwed out of yet another role it can do, I mean they already got screwed out of the swarm launcher, which is a caldari weapon, and they are screwed out of any kind of fighting that doesnt involve being behind cover 70-80 meters away from the enemy because their regen, health, slot layout, stamina, and speed, which are all crap, combined with the rail rifle nerf which disproportionately ****** over the Cal Commando's short range capabilities. I guess what Im saying is: buff cal commando (and all commandos, but cal commando is particularly bad)
Me personally, I do not have enough experience with the Caldari Commando to really qualify as judge, but the suit looks kinda gimped to me even on quick-look. Might as well be wrong, as some people posted already they knew how to make it work and viable. Please don't ask me how...
Templar XIII wrote: ... What's your opinion on this? In case you have completely new takes on sniper rifles for other races, please feel free to post away, Iam very eager to read those... |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
639
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Posted - 2015.04.27 20:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Adding parity by re-purposing existing weapons doesnt appeal to me very much. Also the Cal Commando is already useless at anything besides redline sniping, so Im not sure why you would want to take away the only thing that makes them worth it. Its easily the worst suit in the game, it doesnt need to get screwed out of yet another role it can do, I mean they already got screwed out of the swarm launcher, which is a caldari weapon, and they are screwed out of any kind of fighting that doesnt involve being behind cover 70-80 meters away from the enemy because their regen, health, slot layout, stamina, and speed, which are all crap, combined with the rail rifle nerf which disproportionately ****** over the Cal Commando's short range capabilities. I guess what Im saying is: buff cal commando (and all commandos, but cal commando is particularly bad) Me personally, I do not have enough experience with the Caldari Commando to really qualify as judge, but the suit looks kinda gimped to me even on quick-look. Might as well be wrong, as some people posted already they knew how to make it work and viable. Please don't ask me how...
Its mostly the base suit and the reliance on rail rifles that kills them.
All the commandos are a little crappy, but the Cal Commando is just exceptionally bad. It needs either more health and/or alot more base shield regen stats, and (although I know this is a little abnormal) it needs some kind of bonus to rail rifles that lets them fire it without them jumping all over the place, otherwise they just cant do anything in close quarters compared to someone with an AR/CR/SCR.
And the swarm launcher thing isnt a huge deal, mostly because the biggest bonus commandos get to it is the reload speed, not the 10% damage bonus. |
Templar XIII
163
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Posted - 2015.04.27 20:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote: And the swarm launcher thing isnt a huge deal, mostly because the biggest bonus commandos get to it is the reload speed, not the 10% damage bonus.
You mean: Commandos in general? Since Swarm Launchers deal explosive damage, doesn't the Minmatar commando benefit from it? I never read the Minmatar Commando to be crappy. The other ones: ok, we can discuss this, but the Minmatar with bonus to MassDriver, CombatRifle& SwarmLauncher damage PLUS its native suit speed? This is difficult for me to believe. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
639
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Posted - 2015.04.27 20:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote: And the swarm launcher thing isnt a huge deal, mostly because the biggest bonus commandos get to it is the reload speed, not the 10% damage bonus.
You mean: Commandos in general? Since Swarm Launchers deal explosive damage, doesn't the Minmatar commando benefit from it? I never read the Minmatar Commando to be crappy. The other ones: ok, we can discuss this, but the Minmatar with bonus to MassDriver, CombatRifle& SwarmLauncher damage PLUS its native suit speed? This is difficult for me to believe.
Yes the Min commando gets a 10% bonus from the swarm launcher, I was posting from the Cal Commando perspective (though I have both of them anyway). From the cal's perspective, the 10% damage loss on the swarm launcher isnt a super big deal, thats the point.
Min Comm (probably the best commando) is alot less crappy than the Cal Comm, but still I think its not nearly as good as assault/scout/heavy/logi. I dont have direct experience with the gal comm/amarr comm, but I think, compared to Cal Comm, are much more competitive in close quarters (but its worth noting the Amarr Comm's damage bonus is completely 100% outclassed by the Amar Assault's bonus, Amarr Assault bonus provides more dps increase due to the heat mechanics affect on dps). |
Templar XIII
163
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Posted - 2015.04.27 21:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Templar XIII wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote: And the swarm launcher thing isnt a huge deal, mostly because the biggest bonus commandos get to it is the reload speed, not the 10% damage bonus.
You mean: Commandos in general? Since Swarm Launchers deal explosive damage, doesn't the Minmatar commando benefit from it? I never read the Minmatar Commando to be crappy. The other ones: ok, we can discuss this, but the Minmatar with bonus to MassDriver, CombatRifle& SwarmLauncher damage PLUS its native suit speed? This is difficult for me to believe. Yes the Min commando gets a 10% bonus from the swarm launcher, I was posting from the Cal Commando perspective (though I have both of them anyway). From the cal's perspective, the 10% damage loss on the swarm launcher isnt a super big deal, thats the point. Min Comm (probably the best commando) is alot less crappy than the Cal Comm, but still I think its not nearly as good as assault/scout/heavy/logi. I dont have direct experience with the gal comm/amarr comm, but I think, compared to Cal Comm, are much more competitive in close quarters (but its worth noting the Amarr Comm's damage bonus is completely 100% outclassed by the Amar Assault's bonus, Amarr Assault bonus provides more dps increase due to the heat mechanics affect on dps).
Ah, ok, CalComm perspective, makes sense this way. Concerning Ammandos: some people like True Ada are of the opinion it is viable as a suppressor role, but: I never had this experience with it myself. My AmSent and Am Assault perform way better for me, but maybe Iam just noob. Most Ammandos I see nowadays seem to run AR, TacAR or AssRR paired with MassDriver: strange, strange indeed. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
639
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Posted - 2015.04.27 21:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Templar XIII wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote: And the swarm launcher thing isnt a huge deal, mostly because the biggest bonus commandos get to it is the reload speed, not the 10% damage bonus.
You mean: Commandos in general? Since Swarm Launchers deal explosive damage, doesn't the Minmatar commando benefit from it? I never read the Minmatar Commando to be crappy. The other ones: ok, we can discuss this, but the Minmatar with bonus to MassDriver, CombatRifle& SwarmLauncher damage PLUS its native suit speed? This is difficult for me to believe. Yes the Min commando gets a 10% bonus from the swarm launcher, I was posting from the Cal Commando perspective (though I have both of them anyway). From the cal's perspective, the 10% damage loss on the swarm launcher isnt a super big deal, thats the point. Min Comm (probably the best commando) is alot less crappy than the Cal Comm, but still I think its not nearly as good as assault/scout/heavy/logi. I dont have direct experience with the gal comm/amarr comm, but I think, compared to Cal Comm, are much more competitive in close quarters (but its worth noting the Amarr Comm's damage bonus is completely 100% outclassed by the Amar Assault's bonus, Amarr Assault bonus provides more dps increase due to the heat mechanics affect on dps). Ah, ok, CalComm perspective, makes sense this way. Concerning Ammandos: some people like True Ada are of the opinion it is viable as a suppressor role, but: I never had this experience with it myself. My AmSent and Am Assault perform way better for me, but maybe Iam just noob. Most Ammandos I see nowadays seem to run AR, TacAR or AssRR paired with MassDriver: strange, strange indeed.
Cal Comm is good at a long range suppression role as well, the problem is the suit has zero ability to defend itself in CQC, meaning the team they are on needs to create a pocket for them to operate in. This is not a realistic expectation given how fast and stealthy scouts and assaults can be, and how easy it is to murder a cal commando, so the cal commando ends up being useless. This kind of dynamic may be less of a problem for the AmComms (I sure hope so because it sucks having a proto suit that is **** at everything except redline sniping). |
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
10439
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Posted - 2015.04.27 22:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:sir RAVEN WING wrote:Caldari = Sniper Rifle Gallente = Shotgun Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = Laser Rifle
Why can't the Caldari have our own Mass Drivers, Shotguns, and Laser RIfles? No mass drivers are in the same support weapon class as Gallente = placon Caldari = Swarm Launcher Minmatar = Mass Driver Amarr = laser rifle This all old information now; as it stands atm any weapon class can have parity just the question of why needs to be seriously asked first ahead of time. Parity for parity stakes is just throwing a reskinned weapon in that doesnt feel that much different. For example a Gallente mass driver I want to see fire a drone launcher instead with very limited homing capability to replace its splash damage the mass driver normally enjoys. A Gallente missile launcher being a harpy launcher; fires a drone that follows the javelin style of attack screaming on its way in. Able to do land locking for some tower removal. Every new weapon should be more about what it does to the game first then figuring out who should have it and then where to shove it in accordance. There are lots of weapon profiles out there we can barrow for this game easily and keep things interesting but each one has to be analyzed carefully.
Thank you IWS.
You can have weapons that fulfill a common named role with that races own take on it.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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Avallo Kantor
625
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Posted - 2015.04.27 22:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Honestly I always thought the Laser Rifle was the Amarrian take on a [Long-range Weapon], and the racial parallel of the Sniper Rifle.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
10439
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Posted - 2015.04.27 22:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:Honestly I always thought the Laser Rifle was the Amarrian take on a [Long-range Weapon], and the racial parallel of the Sniper Rifle.
I saw it in the same area as the Mass Driver, minus the slight AV capability.
Support weapon, typically ideal on a commando suit.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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tal mrak-thanl
Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion.
825
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Posted - 2015.04.27 22:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
I was in a skirm earlier where a laserbro and a sniper were obviously calling their shots on comms. Laserbro would start em and the sniper would finish them. The combo cleared a whole squad off in under minute.
"That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19396
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Posted - 2015.04.27 23:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
In my mind the laser rifle represents the marksman rifle; a rifle you want your spotter to have in a two man sniper team.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
10445
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Posted - 2015.04.28 00:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:In my mind the laser rifle represents the marksman rifle; a rifle you want your spotter to have in a two man sniper team. Is that where the TAC rifle should fit in?
Lower mag and RoF but more damage per shot?
Eh, who am I kidding. new weapons!
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19398
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Posted - 2015.04.28 00:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:In my mind the laser rifle represents the marksman rifle; a rifle you want your spotter to have in a two man sniper team. Is that where the TAC rifle should fit in? Lower mag and RoF but more damage per shot? Eh, who am I kidding. new weapons!
Aye most likely there are going to be weapons that are going to be hard to group some groups may have multiple entries from the same race even.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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