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DUST Fiend
16472
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm really happy someone started this very unique discussion.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16472
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
kiarbanor wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Because if dropship pilots have to lose their ISK AND die they would all ragequit. It would be enjoyable to see mercs jumping out of dropships once they took damage, like many, many, many tankers out there.
I would love to see that, mostly because there's a high probability that the ship roadkills the pilot as he bails
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16476
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:kiarbanor wrote:It would be enjoyable to see mercs jumping out of dropships once they took damage, like many, many, many tankers out there. Hold the phone... HAVs can take damage?
Shiney = no solo kill
No shiney = solo kill
HAV 101
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16477
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:No shiney = solo kill Mr. HAV's shiny stops. "Oh ****!" He screams as he drives away at 900m/s. "Whew!", he says as his hardeners cooldown and his armor is repped to full passively. "That was close. I almost died lol" Little did he know that he took 7 points of shield damage.
It must suck having to use tactics to take out a 1.3 million ISK asset :/
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16480
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
I imagine you've never heard of REs or ambushes :/
Judge is STILL a better DUST player than 90% of the playerbase 
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16480
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I imagine you've never heard of REs or ambushes :/ Any halfway decent HAV pilot can see scouts attempting to place RE's on his hull. He will most likely have a gunner on top to pick off scouts who get brave and try to cloak sprint to his rear. "Ambushes"? You mean managing to box a HAV into an area he can't easily drive away from? If the HAV pilot isn't an idiot he won't get into areas he will die in. I've killed a few HAVs who got stuck on a random corner or something.
So if hes not around objectives preventing the hack, what exactly is the issue?
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16480
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Posted - 2015.04.21 20:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So if hes not around objectives preventing the hack, what exactly is the issue? Because his presence on the battlefield prevents movement of your team and boxes you neatly into the objective so that his team can rain down MD and PLC rounds until you either A. ) Get cloned or B.) Leave the objective vacant due to massive spawn-in-insta-deaths.
So why is there only one AV shooting him if your whole team is boxed in?
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16482
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Posted - 2015.04.21 21:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So why is there only one AV shooting him if your whole team is boxed in? AV being the FG, PLC, and swarms. All require a second to "lock". PLC and FG has a charge up time. Swarms have a genuine lock on timer. During this time you are vulnerable to the aforementioned pelting of MD, PLC, and core locus spam. You could field 4 - 6 AV; doesn't matter if they die within a second of getting a round off at the HAV. Let's pretend you do scare the HAV away. What if they field two HAVs? Now you are extra ****** because they can cycle out when they are damaged. Risk aversion in it's most pure form.
You know when there's more than one, your 2 to 3 AV squad can still clear them all up right? If they're all boxed together, move, or set up a trap. Chase them with LAVs. Block exits with REs, force them to move by dancing around them throwing REs and AV nades at them. If they aren't hacking or preventing a hack, they aren't doing much to actually help the match, unless your team is stupidly running at the tanks over and over, in which case that's on them.
Unless a single proto AV fit costs 1.3 million, or a single proto tank costs 200k, then there's going to be some push and pull. You can't have a magical 1v1 environment unless everything is on a 1 to 1 scale.
Bring another tank. Or a dropship. AFK if you're bad. Tanks go down all the time to halfway descent AV squads and other vehicles, not quite sure what you're doing wrong 
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16483
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Posted - 2015.04.21 21:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
ROTFL wrote:oo oo I know this one.... When an airplane is about to go down due to engine problems, the pilot dumps the fuel.
Secondly ships fly so fast, the air blows the fire out....
Thirdly, dropships have fire extinguishes! "Armour repair"
Your welcome!
@win.com
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16486
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Posted - 2015.04.21 22:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I would just love to have one week..where tanks were nerfed down to the survivability of a proto dropsuit..and the cost lowered to the price of a proto dropsuit.. just so I can hear what kind of rabble comes out of some people
Proto tanks have obnoxious survivability if you don't get greedy, I still enjoy trolling around in mine from time to time. Flying is still the only thing that sets this game apart though
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16488
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Posted - 2015.04.21 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I imagine you've never heard of REs or ambushes :/ Judge is STILL a better DUST player than 90% of the playerbase Take away the warning beep from proxies and we'll talk. A buff that didn't require a field so big the tanker can't help but notice them would also go a long way but lets not get greedy.
The beep is fairly irrelevant since you generally try to use them just to box in the tank and cut off his retreat, giving you valuable time to nade and AV him as he stops and reverses, or letting you alpha him if he tries to break through. Even just jumping around them tossing AV nades and REs is usually enough to send them packing, and if they decide to stay and fight you can usually just clean up with REs.
Not trying to say tanks aren't a tad obnoxious right now, but there are definitely ways to handle them. Non proto tanks are a joke against any real AV so with the price tag as is, it seems alright.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16490
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Posted - 2015.04.22 01:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I love the visual effect of dropships crashing to the ground in a fiery explosion--It's badass and immersive. I also agree that everyone in the dropship should die when it hits 0 HPs. Solution: 2 explosions. One that kills occupants at 0HP and a second when the wreckage hits the ground doing AoE damage.
Locking passengers in would be the dumbest thing ever. Particularly since you still get -50WP for each idiot who dies in your ship.
Lock pilots in when under 10% HP, but punishing passengers so you can get your worthless WP is asinine.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16490
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Posted - 2015.04.22 01:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I love the visual effect of dropships crashing to the ground in a fiery explosion--It's badass and immersive. I also agree that everyone in the dropship should die when it hits 0 HPs. Solution: 2 explosions. One that kills occupants at 0HP and a second when the wreckage hits the ground doing AoE damage. Locking passengers in would be the dumbest thing ever. Particularly since you still get -50WP for each idiot who dies in your ship. Lock pilots in when under 10% HP, but punishing passengers so you can get your worthless WP is asinine. Where did I say people should be locked in? I'm saying you can bail at 0.00001% health, but if you're in the thing (passenger or pilot) when it drops to 0HP then you die. Additionally if you're close to where the thing crashes you're going to take AoE damage, and if the wreck lands on your head you're dead. I really don't think there's anything unreasonable about this idea. The -50WP issue is a separate issue and should be handled separately.
I will never agree to forcing passengers to go down with the ship. It's foolish. It's not their fault that dropships are poorly designed for transport, giving virtually no information to them about their surroundings or state of the ship.
If they don't bail, that's on them, but never should they be forced to die with the pilot.
Ever.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16492
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Posted - 2015.04.22 02:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Vell0cet wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I love the visual effect of dropships crashing to the ground in a fiery explosion--It's badass and immersive. I also agree that everyone in the dropship should die when it hits 0 HPs. Solution: 2 explosions. One that kills occupants at 0HP and a second when the wreckage hits the ground doing AoE damage. Locking passengers in would be the dumbest thing ever. Particularly since you still get -50WP for each idiot who dies in your ship. Lock pilots in when under 10% HP, but punishing passengers so you can get your worthless WP is asinine. Where did I say people should be locked in? I'm saying you can bail at 0.00001% health, but if you're in the thing (passenger or pilot) when it drops to 0HP then you die. Additionally if you're close to where the thing crashes you're going to take AoE damage, and if the wreck lands on your head you're dead. I really don't think there's anything unreasonable about this idea. The -50WP issue is a separate issue and should be handled separately. I will never agree to forcing passengers to go down with the ship. It's foolish. It's not their fault that dropships are poorly designed for transport, giving virtually no information to them about their surroundings or state of the ship. If they don't bail, that's on them, but never should they be forced to die with the pilot. Ever. Picture it this way. The ship explodes at 0HP. Everyone is dead just like with an HAV or a LAV (i.e. consistent behavior for all vehicles). The ship immediately gets removed from the battle. Everyone's terminated and gone at this point. Now a 2nd ship appears where the old one was to provide "visual candy" and immersion as the flaming wreck crashes to the ground--there is nobody being forced to "go down with the ship" they're already terminated. You're getting hung up on the visuals.
I'm not getting hung up on the visuals, I'm getting hung up on passengers who can barely see getting killed because of a pilots error.
You want free WP, that's understandable, but I see no reason transpo needs to be nerfed beyond not even being needed, like it currently is. If the pilot has to die, wonderful, I haven't bailed from my ship on purpose in years. Under no circumstances will passengers immediately dieing ever be an acceptable change to me.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16493
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Posted - 2015.04.22 02:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I'm not getting hung up on the visuals, I'm getting hung up on passengers who can barely see getting killed because of a pilots error.
You want free WP, that's understandable, but I see no reason transpo needs to be nerfed beyond not even being needed, like it currently is. If the pilot has to die, wonderful, I haven't bailed from my ship on purpose in years. Under no circumstances will passengers immediately dieing ever be an acceptable change to me. It's not about the free WP for me, it's about the rules being consistent between all vehicles. I don't see why dropships should have special rules that don't apply to LAVs and HAVs. If the warning beep isn't effective for telling people to bail, then that could be tweaked, and so could the -50WPs.
As someone above mentioned, aircraft today will flush all of their fuel out of the vehicle in the event of catastrophic failure, and the speeds up high make it very difficult for things to ignite. And, on the off chance they do ignite, aircraft are designed with fire extinguishing systems. The warning beep hardly even exists because usually if you die, you just die. Barely if any warning. All the damage hits at once.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16505
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Posted - 2015.04.22 14:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend you sound so broken. I am sorry for you. ;_;
Its difficult being right :/
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16508
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Posted - 2015.04.22 16:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend you sound so broken. I am sorry for you. ;_; Its difficult being right :/ How would you know? o_O
Its like the like farms you joined before
It just works 
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16527
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Posted - 2015.04.22 23:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Modern Creature wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So why is there only one AV shooting him if your whole team is boxed in? AV being the FG, PLC, and swarms. All require a second to "lock". PLC and FG has a charge up time. Swarms have a genuine lock on timer. During this time you are vulnerable to the aforementioned pelting of MD, PLC, and core locus spam. You could field 4 - 6 AV; doesn't matter if they die within a second of getting a round off at the HAV. Let's pretend you do scare the HAV away. What if they field two HAVs? Now you are extra ****** because they can cycle out when they are damaged. Risk aversion in it's most pure form. You know when there's more than one, your 2 to 3 AV squad can still clear them all up right? If they're all boxed together, move, or set up a trap. Chase them with LAVs. Block exits with REs, force them to move by dancing around them throwing REs and AV nades at them. If they aren't hacking or preventing a hack, they aren't doing much to actually help the match, unless your team is stupidly running at the tanks over and over, in which case that's on them. Unless a single proto AV fit costs 1.3 million, or a single proto tank costs 200k, then there's going to be some push and pull. You can't have a magical 1v1 environment unless everything is on a 1 to 1 scale. Bring another tank. Or a dropship. AFK if you're bad. Tanks go down all the time to halfway descent AV squads and other vehicles, not quite sure what you're doing wrong RE's do nothing while hardeners are on. AV Grenades do nothing while hardeners are on. Chasing an HAV in an LAV is suicide. You can't ambush a tank when it can road kill you in two directions at a time. Setting up a trap won't happen if it's a double hardener double repper camper tank. I have never actually seen a team win when said team goes out of their way to destroy a proto double hardener double repper camper tank, there's a good chance that it might be been because 3/8ths (6/16) of the team had to spend their teams resources to destroy the tank. I think at this point you should've given up.
So you admit that your team overcommited to handling a tank that likely wasn't getting too many kills anyways, since it had to drive off for all of it's cycles, and likely was driving off if 6 players were pelting it with AV.
Sounds like your team should have given up since they clearly aren't good at AV, and instead focused on just holding the points that the tank can't hack.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16527
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Posted - 2015.04.22 23:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend you sound so broken. I am sorry for you. ;_; Its difficult being right :/ How would you know? o_O Its like the like farms you joined before It just works What is this blasphemy? My likes are harvested from the wild.
I watched you gain almost 4k likes in 2 days 
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16533
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Posted - 2015.04.23 00:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:kiarbanor wrote:Why is it that dropships don't explode in the air once they run out of hit points? Tanks explode. LAVs explode. Even the MCC explodes. Why is the dropship special?
Yes, it explodes when it hits the ground, but that gives pilots plenty of time to jump out, right?
Just something I noticed last night as we took down a couple dropships. This has irked me forever, and I continue to advocate dropships actually exploding so dropship pilots actually (occasionally) die.
You might finally get a kill
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16533
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Posted - 2015.04.23 00:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Trying this on the next dropship I down.
Does it only work on ones you shoot down yourself or can you shoot one someone else has downed and trigger the explosion?
Any damage beyond that which initially downed the ship should cause it to explode.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16533
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Posted - 2015.04.23 00:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Modern Creature wrote:If the tank wasn't getting too many kills anyways then why would 6/16 players on a team go out of their way to waste their own ISK trying to help their team? 6/16 is not a team, that is a squad. This always happens on domination which means there's only one point for the tanker to worry about, that means we wouldn't be able to get any other points. You've just been jumping to conclusions this entire time. Read my posts twice before you make even more mistakes.
It doesn't take 6 proto AV to down a proto tank, even with both hardeners up. Either your AV "squad" was rocking basic / advanced gear, or you guys were doing something really, really wrong.
Also, domination is a ***** because you can't get any real angle of attack. Of all the game modes, Domination is dominated most easily by the team with the strongest vehicle presence, unless the objective is indoors. Different game modes take different tactics.
But, fielding a competent AV squad is definitely the first step, and if SIX of you couldn't down the tank, well...not sure what to tell you.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16533
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Posted - 2015.04.23 01:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Modern Creature wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Modern Creature wrote:If the tank wasn't getting too many kills anyways then why would 6/16 players on a team go out of their way to waste their own ISK trying to help their team? 6/16 is not a team, that is a squad. This always happens on domination which means there's only one point for the tanker to worry about, that means we wouldn't be able to get any other points. You've just been jumping to conclusions this entire time. Read my posts twice before you make even more mistakes. It doesn't take 6 proto AV to down a proto tank, even with both hardeners up. Either your AV "squad" was rocking basic / advanced gear, or you guys were doing something really, really wrong. Also, domination is a ***** because you can't get any real angle of attack. Of all the game modes, Domination is dominated most easily by the team with the strongest vehicle presence, unless the objective is indoors. Different game modes take different tactics. But, fielding a competent AV squad is definitely the first step, and if SIX of you couldn't down the tank, well...not sure what to tell you. When you run proto AV there aren't just vehicles, there are infantry. And those infantry will guard the only thing capable of protecting the point, no matter how many frontline suits it takes. We're using full advanced basic medium suits so we don't go negative while hunting this unicorn. While we do get plenty of kills from the worker bees surrounding their queen, our team still refuses to do anything but enjoy a nice cup of tea in a DS while watching what's going on. The HAV will get bored and hunt for the berries and the berries will die by a horde of infantry and this shiny yellow tank. Also, you're putting quotation marks around the word squad as if that isn't what it actually is called, what have you been playing?
Are all 6 of those players in a single squad, communicating? If so, then it's a squad, and admittedly a rather bad one ikf between the 6 of you communicating you couldn't at the very least scare it off. If it's just 6 players on your team that switched to AV, then no, that's not a squad.
So, from the scenario you've described, not only has your team overcommitted to handling a single tank (also using less than proto vs what was likely a proto 1.3 million ISK tank), your team was also goofing off not helping out. So, of course they ran right through. Domination is THE redline game mode. I have never once joined a game of Dom that didn't almost immediately turn into a redline camp fest.
Hence why it's so popular with proto squads.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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DUST Fiend
16534
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Posted - 2015.04.23 01:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:kiarbanor wrote:Why is it that dropships don't explode in the air once they run out of hit points? Tanks explode. LAVs explode. Even the MCC explodes. Why is the dropship special?
Yes, it explodes when it hits the ground, but that gives pilots plenty of time to jump out, right?
Just something I noticed last night as we took down a couple dropships. This has irked me forever, and I continue to advocate dropships actually exploding so dropship pilots actually (occasionally) die. You might finally get a kill Yup. As a career AV user, it's very painful to get no kills since vehicles are so OP.
Plenty of players who aren't bad do just fine taking out vehicles.
"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."
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