By having the minimum level set at 4 right now it will ensure that only those with significant experience in dust will be trading at first and they will be working the bugs out.

These same ones should be smart enough to avoid being completely screwed by scammers, but at the same time they have the ability to take a lose a lot easier if they do get scammed.


I think it's smart to start at level 4 and let's see how it plays out...

Once the bugs are worked out then open it up to lower levels and such...

What if you had a level 4 lockout unless your character had 500+k WP? That way you would not alienate the veterans who have been playing for a while.

^ I understand having restrictions like these are important but I'm at loyalty rank lvl 3 and I've been here for quite some time. http://dustboard.com/global/merc/da_GAND

The thing about the LR system is that it favors AUR purchases too much. Someone with $25 can just get to LR4 fairly quickly. And again, WPs wouldn't matter since shooting a gun or running logi doesn't teach you anything about trade.

That's what having me scratch my head right now.

PS: How often have you been playing since creating the character?

Please tell me, what in this game teaches anyone about trade?

That point would be very valid if, and only if, CCP had announced that it would be lowered once all the bugs had been squashed by the vets. I donGÇÖt believe they have said anything of the sort.

Having a level 4 requirement is nothing but a cash grab. Conveniently it translates to about $20 pack you can purchase to unlock trading. If CCP was only afraid of alt farmers they could have settled with rank 1 or 2. Achieving those would still take significant amount of time, especially if youGÇÖre looking at a GÇ£real farmerGÇ¥ with alts in the double digits. So you are free to farm alts as much as you like so long as you pay CCP royalties for the privilege.

And GÇ£loyalty rankGÇ¥ has absolutely nothing to do with experience. A new player who started a month ago can buy that $20 pack and start trading. So the level 4 lock does nothing to shield those poor innocent players from the cruelty of New Eden.

BS

I'm sick of this "it's to protect the poor newbs" argument. You say SP and even WPs are bad methods for judging if a player is truly ready for trading, but what makes loyalty rank any better? NOTHING.

Loyalty ranks was just chosen because buying AUR raises your LR much faster than any other method, so people will have to spend read money to trade. I have a character on my account that I never play with, and it has a rank of 5 because of AUR I bought on another character sharing that account. Meanwhile my brother who has been playing Dust since closed beta, he has an character that he plays on all the time, and he's very knowledgeable of New Eden, and a bonafide veteran, that character is only LR3. Its obvious that WP is a better metric for readiness than LR when LR can just be bought. Spending AUR and loyalty rank doesn't in anyway mean you're ready or not ready for New Eden trading and scamming.

Even if it somehow was about protecting the newbs, they don't need it. They can learn the hard way, and I'm sure many of them can see the obvious implications of a trust-based no-guarantee trading system without needing to learn the hard way.

The scam problem is not the problem they want to fix with level 4 loyalty lock.

If the scam was the problem they would have made a barter system, 2 players start a trading session.

1. A simple table with 2 boxes appears (one for each player)
2. Both players see what is on the table (isk or items)
3. When both are satified, both have to press accept

Stop, easy concept, 100% antiscam.

Loyalty 4 lock, is officialy an anti-exploit system, unofficially is a moneygrabber manouver.

[...]


If the scam was the problem they would have made a barter system, 2 players start a trading session.

1. A simple table with 2 boxes appears (one for each player)
2. Both players see what is on the table (isk or items)
3. When both are satified, both have to press accept

Stop, easy concept, 100% antiscam.

[...]

BS
Even if it somehow was about protecting the newbs, they don't need it. They can learn the hard way, and I'm sure many of them can see the obvious implications of a trust-based no-guarantee trading system without needing to learn the hard way.

What about people like me? I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I've been here since open beta. What's that, two years? That's gotten me to rank 2.
Should I be arbitrarily prevented from trading?

Edit: Just noticed you going through it with Da Gand

I've been here since Mordu's Trials and I'm only rank 2. So f***ing stupid.

why should you get everything for free?

You got the game free for 2 years so far , cash grab or not , it's good to have in place. If you want to participate in trading so bad, support the game more than " I logged in"

It wouldn't be the first or last game to introduce soemthing only payers can get , it would only be a one time payment anyhow.. its a good buy

The fact that it keeps Shaman Oga from scamming poor newbros (True story! Scout's Honor!) is merely a beneficial side-effect.

But it's mostly an exploit defense.

It may be a cash grab but the point of it is to make it as difficult as possible to farm alts rather than stop it because stopping it is impossible due to the nature of clever players. Eve Online players can farm alts as well but it's an expensive proposition for them to do so because of time and subscription cost.

As you notice, cash is an effective barrier against farming. Only the rich players would be able to pull it off and even then they would often question the point of doing so in the first place. This keeps the number of farmers and their impact on the game to a minimum.

As for your final statement, I agree as well. That only further emphasizes my point that there is nothing in Dust that prepares new players on how to trade safely. Many won't even realize that there are brokers to rely on for some safety in their transactions.

It doesn't actually.
But i'm not particularly interested in scamming people.

I would also like to add that if CCP takes preventive measures the impact of farmers can be greatly reduced.

Starter boosters GÇô all CCP has to do is change the name and mark these as non-transferrable (or rather create a new booster that is given to new players). The ones that are out there right now will run out eventually. Initially there will be a lot of them on offer but they are consumable and since the source is cut off, you cannot get more of them.

Newsletter items GÇô these items are only available if your character was created before the newsletter came out; so these are only available to old characters and only once. Creating new alts is pointless. And as those boosters above, these are consumable. After a while things settle as people cannot get these anymore.

Keys GÇô these can only be obtained by playing the game so there is nothing wrong with GÇ£farmingGÇ¥ these. You cannot get them free so it is fair game to have people trade keys. Same goes for boxes. Even with several alts you cannot obtain that many per day as you actually have to work for them. Unless the farmer is a total no-lifer who never sleeps but I doubt we have too many of those.

Warbarge components GÇô these are the only real issue with alt farms. IGÇÖd like to see them tradable (as I would never spend a single AUR on these damn things) but I can see why CCP fears it. But I seriously doubt there are that many dedicated farmers. At most people would get them every now and then from their own alt and some would sell these but I do not believe for a second that the sale of these would ever reach the biblical proportions CCP fears. But if nothing else, make these non-tradable.

Experimental weapons GÇô it takes time to get the factory and you cannot dictate what you get. So you cannot farm 50 experimental Mass Drivers, it is random what you get and to get any decent amount of anything takes so long that this is not really a viable farm. In 50 days you might have two of each weapon, not really that profitable as bulk is what farming is about.

So what is left to farm? Starting ISK has already been reduced, you cannot really profit with any of the starting suits and most sellable items are salvage. I may have overlooked several things but these are the ones I could think of now.