Well if we keep on him, maybe he can see that it's important and try to push it higher in the list of priorities. Maybe when CCP AquarHEAD finishes up his work with the matchmaker.

Well if we keep on him, maybe he can see that it's important and try to push it higher in the list of priorities. Perhaps when CCP AquarHEAD finishes up his work with the matchmaker and they get PC figured out.

Apparently CCP the current DUST team only has enough resources to tune things already in game.

Pretty much all they can do is **** with colors and numbers.

Sorta off topic question for you, since you know dropships well. Would Dropships suffer if Light Armor Repairers moved back to an active style?

Pretty much. I mean small new features are not out of the question, but something like a Cap system is pretty 'deep-code' so to speak and would take a lot of effort and change to get working properly. I just don't think it's economical for them to dedicate so many resources to it at this time when there is a lot of other things that could be more readily changed.

We need real "EVE-style" capacitors for vehicles and dropsuits (dropsuits would use this for active equipment). It's really not very complicated, and simpler than trying to manage multiple batteries. There is one pool that regenerates. All active mods use the pool. There are a few nuances in how it regenerates, but they aren't that critical to understand, just don't let it get too low and you're good. It's nearly identical to stamina and people seem to understand that just fine. With capacitors, neutralizers and webs we would finally be able to achieve vehicle balance. Vehicles would be durable, powerful and expensive, but always vulnerable to being "tackled." That's what's been missing from vehicle/anti-vehicle gameplay and it can't ever be balanced without it.

A lot of things in this game could easily be balanced by capacitors. We said this in the beginning but Blam thought we were too stupid to understand the concept of capacitors.

I'm not saying we should be obnoxious about it, but persistent and try to provide suggestions for how it could be done and make the case for why it's so crucial.

They have the resources to do warbarges, trading, matchmaking, etc. so there are guys who can dig into the code, get their hands dirty and make changes. I'm looking at DUST as a low-res beta for the x86 version. I think it's important to have as much stuff balanced and figured out in DUST so that the relaunch can have the best possible initial release to the public. The game will live or die by how those first few months go.

1. Vehicles can't ever be properly balanced without capacitors. They're either very weak and feel cheap and pathetic. or they're too strong and they ruin the experience for everyone. It's pretty impossible to get that right unless vehicles have to fear being tackled.

2. Having balanced vehicles is a critical component of a relaunch.

3. Therefore capacitors need to be a priority at some point this year.

It's easy to always pick the low hanging-fruit, but sometimes you need to roll up your sleeves and tackle the hard problems, like CCP Rattati is doing with PC right now.

To manage caps, especially during a fight would be hell. Especially for other vehicles. It would bring actually less balance than the current timer system we have in place now.

1. Vehicles can't ever be properly balanced without capacitors. They're either very weak and feel cheap and pathetic. or they're too strong and they ruin the experience for everyone. It's pretty impossible to get that right unless vehicles have to fear being tackled.

I don't see how.

It's like looking at one combined module cool down. If its going down you might need to turn some modules off if you get to <25%. If it's going up you are in the clear and probably should turn some mods on.

This is a problem when you realize that you will have to manage this one wheel, but while you are moving around and/or fighting back, and have to figure out what and what not to turn off. It works for ship combat because aiming isn't even a thing, and moving around takes much less to do, as well as being able to set modules on and off to a button.

it would work well on larger platforms, like say a MCC, but on smaller platforms, it simply won't work well.

EDIT: Look, the only thing I can see caps actually adding doing positively is making it to where you can control how long you run a module better, vs. having just a straight timer. This has been done however through the cloak. Having the timer mechanics of the cloak on active modules would effectively do just that, but still allows the current timers a thing.

And for what reason do we "need" them? This has never been told to me.

It seems utterly pointless to have them.

This is a problem when you realize that you will have to manage this one wheel, but while you are moving around and/or fighting back, and have to figure out what and what not to turn off. It works for ship combat because aiming isn't even a thing, and moving around takes much less to do, as well as being able to set modules on and off to a button.

it would work well on larger platforms, like say a MCC, but on smaller platforms, it simply won't work well.

EDIT: Look, the only thing I can see caps actually adding doing positively is making it to where you can control how long you run a module better, vs. having just a straight timer. This has been done however through the cloak. Having the timer mechanics of the cloak on active modules would effectively do just that, but still allows the current timers a thing.

I've been working on a long post about this for a while now, but haven't gotten around to finishing it.

For one thing there is a fundamental difference between vehicle play and infantry play. A huge part of what makes infantry vs. infantry fun is the simple act of trying to hit a target thats actively evading your fire. Imagine how little fun would be had in an FPS with players the size of buildings. It would be a matter of who started shooting first. Vehicles are huge and rather simplistic. Capacitors help add a ton of depth to fittings and strategy, so vehicle play becomes as much about tactics and fits as it is about positioning. Fights can last much longer and be more interesting instead of quickly blaping each other off the field.

In most cases capacitors would actually free up a lot of the obnoxious module-management that the current system uses, since you could create cap-stable fits, if that's your preferred play style. You call in your vehicle, activate your stuff and then don't worry about cap for the rest of the battle (aside from perhaps pulsing some reps after a fight).

Another problem with the current system is that adding active modules actually INCREASES the size of your "virtual capacitor," since each one basically has it's own independent capacitor. This creates a lot of weird imbalances that a single shared capacitor would solve. In EVE if you fit all active mods, your cap would only last a few seconds, in DUST each one lasts as long as its active timer. You're essentially getting capacitor batteries, and rechargers for "free" since you don't need to sacrifice a slot or the PG/CPU to fit it.

As for things being balanced in the past, I respectfully disagree. There has always been QQ about vehicles vs. AV. It was better in 1.6 than after CCP Blam ruined things, but if you search back, you'll find a lot of rage back then too (it's what motivated the rebalance in the first place). It always comes down to the central question of can one AV take out one HAV. With capacitors, one player can always tackle an HAV, but they may need help to kill it. That's a reasonable balance. HAVs can ride around feeling like gods, but they will always have that tingle in their balls that someone's going to get tackle on them.

Godin I may not be aiming in EVE but I am trying to process a lot more information when I fly an EVE ship than I drive a tank in Dust. Speed, Distance, Transversal (multiple ships) drones, targeting, orbits, d-scanner, fleet broad casts, DPS values, capacitor,etc.

Honestly if we were looking at on decreasing orange wheel/meter it would be easier to process cap consumption and hardener/module life than doing the same on half a dozen smaller such metres. But to each their own.

I've been working on a long post about this for a while now, but haven't gotten around to finishing it.

For one thing there is a fundamental difference between vehicle play and infantry play. A huge part of what makes infantry vs. infantry fun is the simple act of trying to hit a target thats actively evading your fire. Imagine how little fun would be had in an FPS with players the size of buildings. It would be a matter of who started shooting first. Vehicles are huge and rather simplistic. Capacitors help add a ton of depth to fittings and strategy, so vehicle play becomes as much about tactics and fits as it is about positioning. Fights can last much longer and be more interesting instead of quickly blaping each other off the field.

In most cases capacitors would actually free up a lot of the obnoxious module-management that the current system uses, since you could create cap-stable fits, if that's your preferred play style. You call in your vehicle, activate your stuff and then don't worry about cap for the rest of the battle (aside from perhaps pulsing some reps after a fight).

Another problem with the current system is that adding active modules actually INCREASES the size of your "virtual capacitor," since each one basically has it's own independent capacitor. This creates a lot of weird imbalances that a single shared capacitor would solve. In EVE if you fit all active mods, your cap would only last a few seconds, in DUST each one lasts as long as its active timer. You're essentially getting capacitor batteries, and rechargers for "free" since you don't need to sacrifice a slot or the PG/CPU to fit it.

As for things being balanced in the past, I respectfully disagree. There has always been QQ about vehicles vs. AV. It was better in 1.6 than after CCP Blam ruined things, but if you search back, you'll find a lot of rage back then too (it's what motivated the rebalance in the first place). It always comes down to the central question of can one AV take out one HAV. With capacitors, one player can always tackle an HAV, but they may need help to kill it. That's a reasonable balance. HAVs can ride around feeling like gods, but they will always have that tingle in their balls that someone's going to get tackle on them.

1: If cap stable fits are anything like they are in EVE, they won't be viable for actual combat, unless it's against a idiot, or it's mostly passive stuff.

2: lel. I said nothing about AV in that, I specifically pointed out that VEHICLES were mostly balanced against each other. Also, even if AV wasn't balanced, how in the **** does that reason "HERP DERP LET'S ADD UNNECESSARY ****!!!!!!"?

Again I have to ask, why do you need capacitors to tackle vehicles? Can you not use Webifiers to slow vehicles and open up opportunities for AV to break through a vehicles tank before it escapes?

1: If cap stable fits are anything like they are in EVE, they won't be viable for actual combat, unless it's against a idiot, or it's mostly passive stuff.

2: lel. I said nothing about AV in that, I specifically pointed out that VEHICLES were mostly balanced against each other. Also, even if AV wasn't balanced, how in the **** does that reason "HERP DERP LET'S ADD UNNECESSARY ****!!!!!!"?

It would be a start, but a vehicle could still activate it's prop mod if webbed and probably get away. With cap, and neuts, you could shut down the prop mod and kill their ability to run hardeners/reppers. The whole thing becomes a lot more deep and fun.

1. So what's your point, that you should run fits that require lots of micromanagement? I thought you said that would be difficult to use. How would using a difficult-to-use fit be more advantageous in a fight? Maybe you could eek out a bit higher EHP or DPS, but then if you're fumbling around with your module wheel and not DPSing then it's probably not going to be a good fit. The point is that cap stable fits would be an option for some, that would be easier than we have now, and people that want to try to micro manage stuff can give it a go, but it's probably not going to work well. People will find a balance that works well for their play style. Having that kind of fitting flexibility would make vehicles a lot more interesting than they are now with cookie-cutter builds.

Tackling and Neuting are two different things.

One slows the vehicle down the other reduced the capacitor of a vessel over time (even then Neuts and Nosferatu's do require their fair share of cap to activate and maintain so if they were hand held infantry tools they could not possibly be eternally active, nor would they instantly drain or prevent an HAV from simply driving off).

Pure passive fits are always **** against their active counterpart for the most part. That is the norm in both EVE and Dust, for like ever. I don't get your point.

That's true. I'm thinking we could have lots of options for both: We could have webbing grenades, mines, handheld active tools like a re-purposed reptool, and possibly ewar small turrets (could add a lot of value to LAVs). We could have equivalent stuff for neuts. So a scout could conceivably place down a neut mine, wait for the HAV to roll through and set it off, follow that up with a few neut grenades and then switch to his handheld webifier to lock it down for his squad. You could picture dozens of different scenarios that could play out in different ways.

The point is that you've been saying it would be impossible to manage all of the modules with a capacitor because it would make driving/flying/shooting too difficult. I'm saying, if that's the case then cap-stable fits would have the advantage since they can focus 100% on driving/flying/shooting. In all likelihood the best fits will probably have a small amount of management, but not so much that it's obnoxious (i.e. because if it's obnoxious than it's probably going to cause you to loose fights).

I like some of those ideas and absolutely loath others.

Grenades and Mines are a no go for me. Tools that can seen and identified by a pilot as a threat yet yield a more tactical application than "Spam Here X" certainly seem more fair.

I have to admit currently tanks (Armour) need very little imput from their pilot to function properly. Activate everything and drive away 3-5 seconds before modules go on cool down.