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The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4272
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
KB/mouse is breaking the game remove the support for it . On dropsuits it skips the inertia for strafing and tanks can turn corners much faster. It is a insane advantage over every 1 who is using a regular controller. It cannot be that any assault suit is capable to outstrafe a HMG from 10m away.
But its not just the HMG its every gun in the game that can be made useless with the help of KB/mouse strafing (except for the massdriver). Strafing needs to be toned down ALOT. It doesnt even make sense that you are aible to move sidewards just as fast when moving forward. I dont see people at the olympics doing strafing to win a 100m race. I highly suggest that side to side movement is toned down to 50% of the regular movement speed or less.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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abdullah muzaffar
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
528
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Umm. Its not april fools anymore..
IJR took my soul. RIP 20/3/15 5:14
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1885
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:KB/mouse is breaking the game remove the support for it . On dropsuits it skips the inertia for strafing and tanks can turn corners much faster. It is a insane advantage over every 1 who is using a regular controller. It cannot be that any assault suit is capable to outstrafe a HMG from 10m away.
But its not just the HMG its every gun in the game that can be made useless with the help of KB/mouse strafing (except for the massdriver). Strafing needs to be toned down ALOT. It doesnt even make sense that you are aible to move sidewards just as fast when moving forward. I dont see people at the olympics doing strafing to win a 100m race. I highly suggest that side to side movement is toned down to 50% of the regular movement speed or less.
Fun fact: because of DUST teaching me to strafe effectively, i can out strafe Destiny's aim assist and magnetism.
PS: kbm is aan inherent DPS disadvantage because of terrible emulation, it only makes up for its lack of applying damage with its movement ability.
perhaps you should do the wiggle wiggle back at them and see what happens.
Reading these forums will drive a man to drink. ...don't see how that's bad i guess
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
186
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've tested this with a friend. They strafed better using controller than keyboard and mouse (and could keep it up for longer periods of time without their fingers getting tired.
Not everyone who beats you is using kbm. Most people use controllers.
I only play with one other person who uses a keyboard. The rest of the people I play with tried it a few times, hated it and never went back to it.
What they need to do is remove aim assist to make it fair on us mouse users ;) |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
434
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:KB/mouse is breaking the game remove the support for it . On dropsuits it skips the inertia for strafing and tanks can turn corners much faster. It is a insane advantage over every 1 who is using a regular controller. It cannot be that any assault suit is capable to outstrafe a HMG from 10m away.
But its not just the HMG its every gun in the game that can be made useless with the help of KB/mouse strafing (except for the massdriver). Strafing needs to be toned down ALOT. It doesnt even make sense that you are aible to move sidewards just as fast when moving forward. I dont see people at the olympics doing strafing to win a 100m race. I highly suggest that side to side movement is toned down to 50% of the regular movement speed or less. Fun fact: because of DUST teaching me to strafe effectively, i can out strafe Destiny's aim assist and magnetism. PS: kbm is aan inherent DPS disadvantage because of terrible emulation, it only makes up for its lack of applying damage with its movement ability.
perhaps you should do the wiggle wiggle back at them and see what happens.
This is why you see the KB/M strafers spamming spray and pray weapons like the assault CR and the SMG. There is also the issue of the emulators which tell the PS3 that the KB/M is a controller thus removing all smoothing and what not.
Also the problem is not just KB/M it is hit detection in general. Yes there are less of them but people that can glitch their hitbox with a DS3 do exist. |
Ku Shala
UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War
1344
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
its macro progamable and/or turbo controller , Kb/m. 8 lefts is better than 1. no advantages to standard K/bm
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)
Caldari Loyalist
22 million sp in drop suit upgrades
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3633
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
OP your argument is based on a misconception. MKB does NOTHING to remove/lessen intertia.
The difference in strafing speed is negligible and practically zero in actuality.
The only difference is that you skip the dead zone from going in one direction to the other -- and this is more than made up for the fact that you can circle and figure 8 strafe much more effectively with a DS3.
If you'd like to join me for a game, I'll show you them side by side, or ask Thor -- he can likely show you too.
Just like the cal scout had some broken hitbox, the mistaken groupthink on the forum that MKB is some kind of magical advantage belies the reality MKB it is far harder to use effectively than a DS3, with devices that mimic a DS3 (like an XIM4 or Aimon) narrowing but not filling the gap.
I challenge you or anyone else to actually use a MKB and prove me wrong. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
436
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:MKB does thing to remove/lessen intertia.
The difference in strafing speed is negligible and practically zero in actuality.
If you'd like to join me for a game, I'll show you them side by side.
Ask Thor -- he can likely show you too.
It removes inertia through simple mechanics.
With a DS3 to go from left to right which takes time but also sends a flood of every position in between thus changing the movement of your mercenary slowly.
With KB/M you simply have a left signal and a right signal with nothing happening in between.
This makes a difference because of latency between your self and the server and the server and your opponent as well as calculations by all of the involved systems. This is an issue because it allows for someone to effectively separate them self from their hit box due to moving faster than the server can report your position. Basically you are shooting at where they were while hit detection is calculating for their new position.
In low latency situations this difference is negligible and aim assist usually takes care of the difference but when you have a player on either side of the with a higher ping time it becomes a serious issue and gives people the ability to become invincible.
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
436
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:OP: Your argument is based on a misconception. MKB does NOTHING to remove/lessen intertia.
In my direct experience, the difference in strafing speed is negligible and practically zero in terms of changing 1:1 encounters.
The only difference is that you skip the dead zone from going in one direction to the other -- it's slightly faster to go from A to D than it is to move your thumb from left to right -- and this is more than made up for the fact that you can circle and figure 8 strafe much more effectively with a DS3.
If you'd like to join me for a game, I'll show you them side by side, or ask Thor -- he can likely show you too.
Just like the cal scout had some broken hitbox, the mistaken groupthink on the forum that MKB is some kind of magical advantage belies the reality MKB it is far harder to use effectively than a DS3, with devices that mimic a DS3 (like an XIM4 or Aimon) narrowing but not filling the gap.
I challenge you or anyone else to actually use a MKB and prove me wrong.
Setting that challenge aside, the real issue here, if I may be so bold, is shoddy hit detection on fast-moving objects that is exacerbated in situations of reduced framerate -- making hitting any fast moving object (regardless of MKB or DS3 or otherwise) extremely difficult at best for any non-explosive weapon.
Respectfully...Leadfoot
It is a situation of latency as described before your edit that really exaggerates this issue.
Also the biggest issues come from the people using devices to tell the PS3 that it is a controller that is being used. This causes compensation for the space between the left and right movement signals to be applied as well as removing the things that CCP has done in an attempt to balance KB/M.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3638
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Please see my ammended post. In reality the difference between MKB and DS3 is almost impossible to see and makes virtually no difference in the encounters.
MKB is simply an excuse, and if you used both as extensively as I have, I'd wager you'd agree.
I can't play right now, but if you want to play some this evening after 6PM ET, I can show you exactly what I'm talking about. I've done this with several folks and it is a bit of an eye opening experience. I wish I had a capture card so I could just record it and post it -- it's truly a fallacy.
Now, don't get me wrong, the advantage is narrowed when you use an eumlator giving MKB the abiltiy to macro or use AA, but it's not the "magic solution to be a slayer" that you might expect by reading posts like this one.
IMO of course....Leadfoot |
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
567
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dude stop. KBM emulates controller. You're actually at a disadvantage using KBM.
So stop making excuses and passing around misinformation.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1885
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Dude stop. KBM emulates controller. You're actually at a disadvantage using KBM.
So stop making excuses and passing around misinformation.
He can't help it, his ego is hurting!
Reading these forums will drive a man to drink. ...don't see how that's bad i guess
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
567
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:Dude stop. KBM emulates controller. You're actually at a disadvantage using KBM.
So stop making excuses and passing around misinformation. He can't help it, his ego is hurting!
Accepting your scrubby ways is the only way to enlightment. It worked for me dude.
Saying what's on people's minds
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
436
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Please see my amended post (and you have)....
In reality the difference between MKB and DS3 is almost impossible to see and makes virtually no difference in the encounters.
"MKB super-strafers" is simply an excuse, and if you used both as extensively as I have, I'd wager you'd agree.
I can't play right now, but if you want to play some this evening after 6PM ET, I can show you exactly what I'm talking about. I've done this with several folks and always been an eye opening experience for those people. I wish I had a capture card so I could just record it and post it -- it's truly a fallacy.
Now, don't get me wrong, the advantage is narrowed when you use an emulator giving MKB the ability to macro or use AA, but it's not the "magic solution to be a slayer" that you might expect by reading posts like this one.
The real issue is hit detection in situations of low framerate and/or high ping players -- at least as best as I can tell....Leadfoot
I would be highly inclined to agree with you if I had not personally seen such cases. The people that are able to effectively do it are the minority for sure and just provide an excuse across the board to players that are not even doing it. I suppose in that regard we somewhat agree.
I am not sure I will be able to make it on around that time but I would love to discuss as well as see the tests you are talking about. I have a capture card so I can record all of it for us if you like.
What time do you think you will be on tomorrow if I can not make it on this evening?
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance
682
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Personally I don't think you should be allowed to use anything other then a controller. Aside from actually typing, because screw that XMB menu, thing takes way too long D:
But I guess if this game is what you live for, I suppose you should have the option to nerd out and drag a desk in your room just to play it xD Personally I prefer the comfort and practicality of a controller.
The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3641
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:What time do you think you will be on tomorrow if I can not make it on this evening?
Tough to say. Friday night is GF night.
I usually play between 8pm and 2am ET most weeknights. Weekends can be spotty -- generally after the GF goes to sleep.
Please do hit me up. I'd love to record it.... |
Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
122
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you lose vs kb/m in this game you should feel bad. Controller has every advantage. |
syzygiet
40
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've used keyboard and mouse since i started playing back in chromesome aka the AR 514 era. Once they took away aim assist for the keyboard and mouse i couldnt hit anything because of the crappy hit detection. For anyone who has played with me they will tell you I used the mass driver as a logi. I managed barely to keep a 2.0kdr with that wep. Few months ago, I started using the DS3 and my KDR from the last few months has gone closer to 3 because of how easy it is to hit people without aiming down the sight. I still swap to mouse and keyboard when i use forge, sniper, mass driver, plasma cannon though.
So anyone who thinks there is some kind of advantage with mouse and keyboard i challenge you to try it before spewing hearsay. |
Indianna Pwns
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
71
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Strafing in general just needs to be toned down. Its not like where playing on PC here with the super precise input of a mouse.
Controllers are inherently imprecise, hence the need for aim assist (for most players at least).
The contradiction here is that CCP have designed a high HP shooter alongside the ability to strafe quickly yet given us clunky aiming mechanics. The very fact that CCP feel that aim assistance is required to help track fast moving/ strafing targets proves my point.
Hit detection issues just further compound the issue and what we get is the ridiculous one on one gunfights we've all seen where people are strafing around each other unloading whole magazines into thin air.
I'm sorry but the running around in the open knowing that you can just strafe your way out of trouble and the hilariously drawn out one on ones have to end.
Reducing strafe speeds will force people to use cover during gunfights and play with some sort of intelligence when moving from cover to cover. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3644
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Posted - 2015.04.02 22:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Indianna, Every single FPS that I've ever played on a console has had AA. I'm not sure that it's evidence of "clunky aiming mechanics" so much as an analog stick under your thumb requires help to be effective.
Fix hit detection and it will become just like all the other FPS games where you don't see this gripe.
The challenge, as best as I can tell and being purely speculative, is that Dust's UE engine is maxed out and is simply not able to keep up in those certain situations noted as above when fast moving objects are virtually impossible to hit when experiencing slow framerate.
I mean, sure, we can slow down the game so we all are slow as an amarr sentinel and it becomes who steps out of cover first as the overriding factor in terms of who loses an engagement -- but is that really the right answer?
I'd like to think not, but then again I love the fast paced action full of 1:1 encounters, and, more importantly, I'm not the one trying to fix the problem either.... |
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Indianna Pwns
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2015.04.02 23:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Indianna,
Every single FPS that I've ever played on a console has had AA. I'm not sure that it's evidence of "clunky aiming mechanics" so much as dozens of other shooters saying an analog stick under your thumb requires help to be effective.
But here's the rub: If they manage to fix hit detection and this issue will become just like all the other FPS games...where you don't see this gripe.
The challenge, as best as I can tell and being purely speculative, is that Dust's UE engine is maxed out and is simply not able to keep up in those certain situations noted as above when fast moving objects are virtually impossible to hit when experiencing slow framerate.
I mean, sure, we can slow down the game so we all are slow as an Amarr sentinel and it becomes who steps out of cover first or who sees who first -- but is that really the right answer?
I'd like to think not, but then again I love the fast paced shooters like Dust that are full of 1:1 encounters, and, more importantly, I'm not the one trying to fix the problem either....Leadfoot
I'm not saying nerf strafing into the ground but when players are choosing to run around in the open strafing as a better option than ducking in and out of cover something is wrong.
The current mechanics allow players to get away with poor positioning and bad decision making. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3646
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Posted - 2015.04.03 00:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Only if the guy who spots him sucks.
Otherwise the guy with the "poor positioning and bad decision making" dies in about 2 seconds (or less) no matter how fast he strafes or what type of controller he's using.
I think you are underestimating the power of positioning and cover in Dust and overestimating the ability of strafing to overcome it.
IMO, of course. :) |
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