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Avallo Kantor
555
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Posted - 2015.03.24 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
In DUST 514 we have a variety of counters to all types of play. There is AV for Vehicles, Anti-armor ammunition for Armor tanks, and Anti-Shield for Shield. Each of these also has a corresponding grenade type. However in DUST there is also the concept of speed tanking, heavily employed by scouts and the Minmatar line of dropsuits in general. There exist very few ways to counter this however, and no grenade type that is effective against this kind of tanking method.
As such I would like to suggest another Grenade type, Subjugation Grenades. These grenades would be the Amarrian grenade type (Although they donGÇÖt need their own unique model, just a color variant) that focuses on disabling speed tanks, which are heavily employed by their main rival, the Minmatar.
The Subjugation grenade works as such:
-Large Radius (As to catch speed tankers)
-Explode on Impact (to prevent escape)
-NO damage done
-Fully depletes Stamina meter, and prevents stamina regen for X seconds (based on level)
-(Optional) Applies a movement penalty, similar to a same tier armor plate.
The goal with these effects is to make a weapon that specifically counters the targetGÇÖs ability to escape quickly, by removing their sprinting and jumping abilities, potentially snaring jumpers and sprinters in easy range of your weapons. As they do no damage, securing a kill is still reliant on teamwork or your own firepower, but it makes it difficult for the target to escape in the meantime.
This module is an effective counter to many aspects of the meta that are starting to emerge, without being so strong that it phases out the meta, as you would be sacrificing your ability to cause damage with a grenade with one that only affects stamina. On the other hand, this module allows a counter that currently does not exist in game, as well as serving to an infantry-level counter to speed tanking.
The idea is for there to be a few variants of this model as well
-Sleek: Can be thrown further at the cost of smaller (Medium) radius, and less regen prevention.
-Repentance: Does not reduce Stamina meter in exchange for long term stamina regen prevention.
On Model: The grenade can use the flux asset, with an Amarrian color scheme, and the flux animation with a yellow tint.
On notification: Perhaps turn the stamina bar to red when it is lacks regen capabilities.
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Avallo Kantor
560
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback.
One concern I have though is that I feel it might fall into a similar problem with the flux grenade where you have little to no incentive to go into higher tiers than basic, due to higher levels not really being worth it.
Any suggestions on making higher tiers enough of an improvement, without gimping the lower levels into useless status? |
Avallo Kantor
574
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Posted - 2015.03.27 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:Avallo Kantor wrote:Thanks for the feedback.
One concern I have though is that I feel it might fall into a similar problem with the flux grenade where you have little to no incentive to go into higher tiers than basic, due to higher levels not really being worth it.
Any suggestions on making higher tiers enough of an improvement, without gimping the lower levels into useless status? Make the higher teirs add base movement penalty. 25% adv 40% proto
I think those movement penalties are a bit too extreme. I was thinking more the move penalty of a single plate, not 5+
The stamina depletion should already be more than effective at crippling speed tanks, which is what the grenade is meant for. Making a target totally immobile is not the intent
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Avallo Kantor
576
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Posted - 2015.03.27 21:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Great idea for an Amarr grenade. Kind of like their version of an energy neut from Eve.
Yes, the energy neut was actually the EVE idea that inspired this grenade type, especially seeing as Stamina is an infantry man's only real regenerating energy source.
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Avallo Kantor
576
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Posted - 2015.03.28 14:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I came expecting something stupid.
I Found an interesting and potentially awesome idea.
Please refine this idea further.
Thank you. Might I ask what you think is lacking in refinement?
I am open to suggestions. My idea is to have a grenade type that specifically works to counter speed tanking without becoming so good that it is an "always use" grenade type against all suits. As an example, this grenade would probably be most useless against the heavy class, especially the Amarr Sentinel. |
Avallo Kantor
576
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Posted - 2015.03.28 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:I can't see this being helpful at all... In eve the cap is used to power weapons & modules without it you dead. But in dust stamina is only directly related to sprint and jumping and doesn't have in correlation to HP regeneration, equipment, or damage output of weapons.
You make a fair point, but I would argue the point is to specifically target those who speed tank and jump to maneuver around the map. To that regards full stamina depletion (and a delay on recharge) would effectively cut off their escape routes, stop their ability to easily strafe your fire, and have to either stand and engage, or try to move away at standard speed.
As I said to Breakin Stuff, the idea is for it to be a specialty use grenade that is designed to momentarily cripple an opponents ability to escape, so that you can deal with them on the terms you have dictated.
Further, I would go to claim that in DUST several suits pin their survival upon speed tanking (the art of not getting hit either through running, strafing, and jumping) and that cutting that off is just as effective at stopping their tank as a flux would be to a shield tanker.
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Avallo Kantor
576
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Posted - 2015.03.28 14:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:I can't see this being helpful at all... In eve the cap is used to power weapons & modules, without it you're dead. But in dust stamina is only directly related to sprint and jumping and doesn't have in correlation to HP regeneration, equipment, or damage output of weapons. It'll just be a vanity item that only loyalists will use. It will allow you to stop scouts and minassault hit and run tactics, and force enemies to stand and fight rather than trying to sprint to cover. This is a battlefield control concept. I'm. Actually seeing the logic here and it's potentially awesome. The concept can also transfer to shutting down vehicle fuel injection they use to speed roll away from danger.
Hrmm I hadn't thought of the fuel injector idea. I'm not sure how possible it is right now in the game logic to have an outside force cut off a module mid-run. If possible though, it might have some applications.
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Avallo Kantor
576
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Posted - 2015.03.28 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Cutting out a module is conceptually no different than what you propose.
You simply have to carefully consider what kinds of modules could be affected. More importantly if they SHOULD.
Killing a speed booster on an HAV or LAV is nasty but not as devastating by itself as turning off shield extenders, reppers and such. I like the speed stopper concept but the examples of defense mod crippling isn't a good idea overall.
What your idea is, with refinement and concept tweaking is a potential method for engaging new tactics and options rather than simply removing them.
I like it.
Bear in mind Rattati might not have the dev resources for something like this But I hope he at least has a look.
*nods* I'm always aware of Rattati's lack of resources. I proposed this because I feel there are already operations that exist in the game (and in battle) that reduce stamina. The grenade could use similar methods to that to reduce stamina, and perhaps introduce a variable similar to shield recharge on the stamina. (Just spit balling though)
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Avallo Kantor
584
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Posted - 2015.03.31 00:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also, one other thing: I currently don't have Trello permissions, and would rather not flood the board with my (mostly) bad ideas.
Would somebody else be willing to create a Trello Item linked to this thread? I would be most thankful. |
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