DUST Search - Officer hulls and turrets

Spkr4theDead wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

The fact that I do not take your overly aggressive,

I don't back down in my defense of vehicles.

non-constructive,

I point out bad ideas.

and heavily biased statements

I don't back down in my defense of vehicles.

seriously is more down to how you personally present yourself

What do you mean by that?

irrespective of my stance as a tanker. I fundamentally believe there is no value in driving and HAV if we are invincible or if it requires no skill to do so.

There's officer suits, why can't there be officer hulls? That's double standards if there's officer suits but aren't allowed to have officer hulls.

Spkr4theDead wrote:

Future officer Amarr sentinel would probably have 5 slots and a light weapon slot. With 5 plates that's around 1500 armor. Get 2 Min logis both using Core Focused and that's a suit that will never die. I assume you'll tell me that's not ridiculous.

If there is one that is down to Rattati to address though in terms of fundamental design it does not exceed the 5 slot limit, does not drastically alter the racial play style, and in your above statement requires 3 players to become "invincible" whereas the above HAV does not to function far beyond a reasonable level for an HAV.

My 4x skill was changed to an 8x skill for no bonus. We have no idea what the DHAV and UHAV skill multiplier will be, probably 12x. You need suit operation to 5 to be able to use an officer suit. We'll probably need UHAV to level 5 to get any projected officer hull. Rattati said before they introduced the new officer suits that they're meant to be quite OP. I see no reason any potential officer hull should differentiate from that.

As I mentioned those passive rep values would sit squarely between 450 and 600 which is incredibly unbalanced especially when you consider those are the result of entirely passive attribute that require no player in put to function.

Proper fitting had armor reps nerfed from 1.7 to 1.8. Why? Because people complained. Rattati's Modified Assault Gk0 can get >30 reps with proper fitting. Why can't an officer armor hull get incredible reps with proper fitting?


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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17805	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:02:00 - [1] - Quote Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17806	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:16:00 - [2] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Why not? Infantry/vehicle parity FTW right? Okay so I'm not against Officer Vehicles....what I take issue with is blatant and unapologized insanity. Base 180 Repairs per second plus 5x Low Slot Modules and the PG/CPU allotments to adequately fit said vehicle.... That is beyond the bounds of reasonable. 180 +137.5+137.5+ 137.5 = 592.5 Repairs per second..... even if you only ran 2x Prototype Heavy Repairers that would amount to 455 repairs per second with likely either 2x Armour Hardeners. This would quite literally be a game breaking vehicle. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17807	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:52:00 - [3] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Why not? Infantry/vehicle parity FTW right? Okay so I'm not against Officer Vehicles....what I take issue with is blatant and unapologized insanity. Base 180 Repairs per second plus 5x Low Slot Modules and the PG/CPU allotments to adequately fit said vehicle.... That is beyond the bounds of reasonable. 180 +137.5+137.5+ 137.5 = 592.5 Repairs per second..... even if you only ran 2x Prototype Heavy Repairers that would amount to 455 repairs per second with likely either 2x Armour Hardeners. This would quite literally be a game breaking vehicle. So, in your mind, what WOULD be a good Officer Tank stat wise? That's a really difficult one to work on. Assuming we must strictly adhere to the maximum of 5 slots paradigm, and I remember at one point there was a reason for this, then there are only a few things that really can be adjusted without pushing them out of balance when compared to the other HAV. Increased PG/CPU would be a basic step up from the standard hull allowing players to essentially fit and entire On-Rack (primary tank type) of modules as well as well developed secondary and utility modules. Increasing the Off-Rack (opposing tank type) slot count seems rather pointless to me but the considerations could be made. Increasing On-Rack module allocations is tricky and dangerous since armour and shield HAV currently in the game do not have mirrored slot allocations. Officer Shield HAV could have lower delays before recharging of shields, slightly higher per second regenerative rates (greater damage thresholds before reps are broken) while armour might gain higher static armour values. Passive and Native Armour reps still need to die in a fire but since Rattati is so married to them a more reasonable boost to say 50-60 rep sec might suffice while not being equivalent to an extra repairer modules. Armour tanks at officer level could use and additional 625 armour to bring their base armour to 3325 while Shield HAV could use a boost to say between 650 and 800 bringing them to 2850-3000 base shielding. Note the above are more or less suggestions based off personal opinion as opposed to actual number crunching. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17810	Posted - 2015.03.23 22:08:00 - [4] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Some pilot you are. The fact that I do not take your overly aggressive, non-constructive, and heavily biased statements seriously is more down to how you personally present yourself irrespective of my stance as a tanker. I fundamentally believe there is no value in driving and HAV if we are invincible or if it requires no skill to do so. You statement would ensure the above scenario. Spkr4theDead wrote: Future officer Amarr sentinel would probably have 5 slots and a light weapon slot. With 5 plates that's around 1500 armor. Get 2 Min logis both using Core Focused and that's a suit that will never die. I assume you'll tell me that's not ridiculous. If there is one that is down to Rattati to address though in terms of fundamental design it does not exceed the 5 slot limit, does not drastically alter the racial play style, and in your above statement requires 3 players to become "invincible" whereas the above HAV does not to function far beyond a reasonable level for an HAV. As I mentioned those passive rep values would sit squarely between 450 and 600 which is incredibly unbalanced especially when you consider those are the result of entirely passive attribute that require no player in put to function. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17811	Posted - 2015.03.23 22:22:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: The fact that I do not take your overly aggressive, I don't back down in my defense of vehicles. non-constructive, I point out bad ideas. and heavily biased statements I don't back down in my defense of vehicles. seriously is more down to how you personally present yourself What do you mean by that? irrespective of my stance as a tanker. I fundamentally believe there is no value in driving and HAV if we are invincible or if it requires no skill to do so. There's officer suits, why can't there be officer hulls? That's double standards if there's officer suits but aren't allowed to have officer hulls. Spkr4theDead wrote: Future officer Amarr sentinel would probably have 5 slots and a light weapon slot. With 5 plates that's around 1500 armor. Get 2 Min logis both using Core Focused and that's a suit that will never die. I assume you'll tell me that's not ridiculous. If there is one that is down to Rattati to address though in terms of fundamental design it does not exceed the 5 slot limit, does not drastically alter the racial play style, and in your above statement requires 3 players to become "invincible" whereas the above HAV does not to function far beyond a reasonable level for an HAV. My 4x skill was changed to an 8x skill for no bonus. We have no idea what the DHAV and UHAV skill multiplier will be, probably 12x. You need suit operation to 5 to be able to use an officer suit. We'll probably need UHAV to level 5 to get any projected officer hull. Rattati said before they introduced the new officer suits that they're meant to be quite OP. I see no reason any potential officer hull should differentiate from that. As I mentioned those passive rep values would sit squarely between 450 and 600 which is incredibly unbalanced especially when you consider those are the result of entirely passive attribute that require no player in put to function. Proper fitting had armor reps nerfed from 1.7 to 1.8. Why? Because people complained. Rattati's Modified Assault Gk0 can get >30 reps with proper fitting. Why can't an officer armor hull get incredible reps with proper fitting? Please at least take the time to format your responses so that they are more clear as opposed to simply inserting your answers into my quotes. Surely you have the capacity to present a proper argument without having to address individual aspects of my posts out of context. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17816	Posted - 2015.03.23 23:10:00 - [6] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I don't back down in my defense of vehicles.I point out bad ideas.I don't back down in my defense of vehicles.What do you mean by that? There's officer suits, why can't there be officer hulls? That's double standards if there's officer suits but aren't allowed to have officer hulls. My 4x skill was changed to an 8x skill for no bonus. We have no idea what the DHAV and UHAV skill multiplier will be, probably 12x. You need suit operation to 5 to be able to use an officer suit. We'll probably need UHAV to level 5 to get any projected officer hull. Rattati said before they introduced the new officer suits that they're meant to be quite OP. I see no reason any potential officer hull should differentiate from that. Proper fitting had armor reps nerfed from 1.7 to 1.8. Why? Because people complained. Rattati's Modified Assault Gk0 can get >30 reps with proper fitting. Why can't an officer armor hull get incredible reps with proper fitting? Since it comes down to me to format I guess I shall do the leg work in making your response legible. It is certainly a testament to your enduring enjoyment of Vehicle Gameplay in Dust that you have such passionate views on the subject in a similar manner that I suppose a great many other tankers, myself included, do as well however this does not mean one should present themselves to their peers, the wider community, and the developers in the aggressive and un-cooperative manner that I feel you have. The simplest way to see change within the game is to make statements supported by factual evidence and keep an open mind when discussing the subject with others. Again while it is commendable that you continue to champion perceived injustices against HAV specifically this does not mean you can achieve change by insisting your opinions are correct or demeaning the opinions and efforts of others who are also seeking to achieve meaningful balance and enjoyable gameplay. Just keep that in mind as you post. I can agree that the 4x to 8x skill change for no valuable benefits was a silly idea on CCP Rattati's part and I stick with the idea that we should break down Vehicle Command Skills into racially aligned Basic 4x skills and comparable specialist skills for UHAV, SHAV, and DHAV should any of them be brought into active rotation. Every skill should ideally have some kind of meaningful bonus but balancing those bonuses without a bit of give and take will be impossible if we continue to oppose change without providing real alternatives to CCP Rattati. I am not against the Officer tier hulls, should they be implemented, being a step up from their PRO counter parts however I am making a commentary about how awful Passive Armour Repairs are including Native Armour Repairs (both concepts that never should have been introduced to vehicles) and suggest only that if they are to have better armour repair values (especially on say an Officer Gallente Hull) that this be a bonus that applies to the efficiency of Active Armour Repairers that players themselves need to manage. HAV should not ever have prolific passive repair values, all prolific repair values should be the sole domain of Active Modules. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17822	Posted - 2015.03.24 03:17:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Some pilot you are. So you base a pilot on how unreasonable they can be? Top lel Hold me back Godin! Hold me back! Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17823	Posted - 2015.03.24 03:35:00 - [8] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: True Adamance wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Some pilot you are. So you base a pilot on how unreasonable they can be? Top lel Hold me back Godin! Hold me back! I'm sorry, but I watch fights, not stop them. Which reminds me. Sumo fights are funny. They are strong though. Yeah they are. Last Christmas Party at work the bosses hired out Sumo suits and got a drunken Operations Manager and Maintenance Manager to have a fantastic fight to the death. Glorious! Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17836	Posted - 2015.03.24 07:24:00 - [9] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Um.....wait really? No I just won't take this seriously. Some pilot you are. So you base a pilot on how unreasonable they can be? Top lel Essentially someone claiming they're a pilot not at all liking the idea of officer hulls/turrets. That would be like someone that only plays scout saying "officer scouts are a terrible idea." It's not that they are a bad idea it's that they have to be approached carefully. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch