DUST Search - Domination and Skirmish ISK Reward Increase

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

I am not sure if that is the better question to ask. I had about 40 million from running basic suits until about 3 months ago. Basic Caldari Suit (BPO Raven) with complex Modules where I could fit an an Assault Rail Rifle. Was about 11k or so. Once I got to that much and realized that I had 40 million SP, I might as well run Prototype suits. In a month, I was still isk positive. Suit ran slightly less than 100k so I could lose two a match and still break even. Even if I lost 4 a match, that amounts to 200 matches *1 before I go bankrupt. When I didn't lose two, used a different suit, or got more money for doing exceptionally well I extended that bankruptcy point.

I am in no way elite. I am mediocre usually, 'decent' when doing well *2.

Suits, especially if you opt not to use a prototype weapon, don't have to cost more than 100k when Prototype. It isn't like they are well out of reach of the average player out there *3.

Of course, it is the greatest feat ever accomplished by the upper 1% to get the 15% to lobby for them *4. Payouts could be increased; it certainly doesn't hurt me as I already use mostly Prototype. However, pay outs were increased via vendor trash salvage which is what many people are forgetting. *5

If payouts were to be increased, what are some ways of going about it? I don't mean to put anyone of the spot with "you can't think of something, well it shouldn't happen!" but I am curious what would be a good place to put isk amounts so competent players can run prototype without having to have an excessive nest egg to begin with. *6

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Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 287	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:10:00 - [1] - Quote Just increase the damn thing. The current payout is not fair for those who constantly push for the objective(s). We take massive risks to try to win the match for the team and we are rewarded with garbage for doing it. Ambush matches shouldn't be the go-to game mode to try to make an ISK profit. An ISK profit should be reasonably attained in all game modes.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2160	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:24:00 - [2] - Quote Personally I think there shouldn't be any payout lower than 200k. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
tal mrak-thanl Aethan Dor 268	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:25:00 - [3] - Quote How much are you talking? I average 200k, it keeps the lights on.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 2366	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:29:00 - [4] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: How much are you talking? I average 200k, it keeps the lights on. I average 600k in skirm and it hardly makes a dent. That's 3 suits if I run proto. I'm also usually 30+/3 with 2k+ WPs though. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy 2841	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:31:00 - [5] - Quote 200,000 is all you need in pubs. Proto shouldn't be regularly run there TBH. 200,000 is enough for some decent advanced fittings. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
tal mrak-thanl Aethan Dor 268	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:32:00 - [6] - Quote I very rarely break 400, even when I go over 2k wps, and that's only running a logi. I can afford to suck coz apex.
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 114	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote Most of my Skirmish - domination matches give me 190k -300k ... Playing as logi BPO-Chirion Proto in publics =l bankrupt . Play with basic or ADV. -- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 288	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:53:00 - [8] - Quote Aidualc wrote: Most of my Skirmish - domination matches give me 190k -300k ... Playing as logi BPO-Chirion Proto in publics =l bankrupt . Play with basic or ADV. I do play with Advanced fits. I also play to win. If I spend an entire match constantly pushing for the objective because the majority of my team is either to scared or stupid to do it themselves or to even help push for the objective then I am going to die a number of times. The domination match I played earlier that led me to make this thread I went 26/9. I had the most kills out of anyone on either team, I ranked 1st on my team at the end of the match, and I was the only one who hacked the objective on my team. I used a 60,000 ISK Advanced setup and invested 540,000 ISK into that match. I was rewarded just under 240,000 ISK at the end of the match. Because I tried to win that match I am now negative 300,000 ISK. With the current setup I feel that people who actually try are ****** over by people who immediately give up.
Outlaw OneZero Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1596	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:54:00 - [9] - Quote I wonder what impact this would have on NPE. Would they be able to compete in an environment where all of the vets can run proto all the time? Would this help balance the teams better overall and therefore help the newberries? Sounds like an opportunity for an event, increase the baseline ISK payout for all pub modes and see what happens. Hello, is this thing on?
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 288	Posted - 2015.03.18 16:01:00 - [10] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: 200,000 is all you need in pubs. Proto shouldn't be regularly run there TBH. 200,000 is enough for some decent advanced fittings. 200,000 ISK reward is not enough to support advanced fittings if you are the type of player who cares about winning, tries to win, and ends up being teamed up with people who don't give a ****. My main advanced fit right now costs 60,000. An average 200,000 ISK for Ambush matches is fine but for Domination and Skirmish matches it doesn't work.

LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 281	Posted - 2015.03.18 16:26:00 - [11] - Quote Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs.
Outlaw OneZero Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1597	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:10:00 - [12] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? Hello, is this thing on?
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2161	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:37:00 - [13] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? LP gear is significantly cheaper in ISK than regular gear. If you run a mix of FW & pubs and don't end up on the side that gets stomped too often you can do alright. However when I boot up dust I want to play it, not spend 5 - 20 minutes waiting to just find the match and then another 5 minutes waiting to deploy and then however long is left in the warbarge just for 1 FW match; man, fck that noise with a barbed rod. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
Outlaw OneZero Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1598	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:55:00 - [14] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? LP gear is significantly cheaper in ISK than regular gear. If you run a mix of FW & pubs and don't end up on the side that gets stomped too often you can do alright. However when I boot up dust I want to play it, not spend 5 - 20 minutes waiting to just find the match and then another 5 minutes waiting to deploy and then however long is left in the warbarge just for 1 FW match; man, fck that noise with a barbed rod. Still don't think it adds up. Play FW and lose ISK on suits to earn LP to buy discounted equipment to play pubs... I don't think this works unless you're using all BPOs in FW. Hello, is this thing on?
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 168	Posted - 2015.03.18 20:13:00 - [15] - Quote I can get anywhere between 400-3k WP a match depending on my role. I got 410 WP yesterday though, and made a grand total of 31k ISK. Thank goodness I didn't lose any suits! I think the lower payments are far, far too low. I'm fine getting 200k ISK a match if I only lose 2-3 suits though. Even in first place, I rarely get more than 350k ISK.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3406	Posted - 2015.03.18 20:21:00 - [16] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: I wonder what impact this would have on NPE. Would they be able to compete in an environment where all of the vets can run proto all the time? Would this help balance the teams better overall and therefore help the newberries? Sounds like an opportunity for an event, increase the baseline ISK payout for all pub modes and see what happens. To be fair, most of the true protostomping is done via Squads and these are people that can run for a long, long time before going bankrupt. If everyone is given an ISK increase, it likely just means that people that are playing solo will still lose to the full on team. I don't know how to feel about this. My new suit is about 112k a pop and it dies very easily. I will generally lose about 3 or more a match because I am playing alone, I don't really care too much about the isk, and because I am consistently trying to push my team toward the map with Uplinks. However, should Prototype be something that people run all the time? Here are the records of the full games I had yesterday: 253,086 / 10,738 SP / 1,563 WP (4) - Win - 267,371 / 7,064 SP / 1,025 WP (1) - Lose 425,111 / 21,699 SP / 3,635 WP (1) - Lose - 434,063 / 13,446 SP / 2,076 WP (2) - Win 268,728 / 12,927 SP / 2,020 WP (3) - Win - 303,726 / 13,653 SP / 2,150 WP (2) - Win 318,868 / 8,061 SP / 1,148 WP (1) - Win - 240,777 / 8,614 SP / 1,268 WP (5) - Win 284,997 / 7,876 SP / 1,015 WP (5) - Win - 362,776 / 11,331 SP / 1,790 WP (1) - Win "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 290	Posted - 2015.03.18 20:41:00 - [17] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. That is only going to work if you actually win the FW matches. Also, I am limited to what I can buy with LP since I am committed to playing Gallente FW only; I played a few Minmatar FW matches before because I read the Gallente helps the Minmatar not get enslaved or something...something about the Amarr being an *******...anyways. I also don't like the waiting game that comes with FW. It sucks when you wait 10 minutes to join a FW match just to be assigned to a losing team in a match that is over halfway done.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2166	Posted - 2015.03.18 21:06:00 - [18] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: To be fair, most of the true protostomping is done via Squads and these are people that can run for a long, long time before going bankrupt. If everyone is given an ISK increase, it likely just means that people that are playing solo will still lose to the full on team. Yeah well you know, teamwork is OP and a higher payout will never change that. What it does change is their ability to make a profit of more than a few ten thousand without having to run gimped fits. Which in turn allows them to put up more of a fight. Sure chances are they'll still get their asses handed to them however losing while still putting up a good fight and making a profit feels 100 times better than melting in the blink of an eye in a BPO or gimped fit; it doesn't matter if you make a profit, that sh!t just ain't fun. Joseph Ridgeson wrote: However, should Prototype be something that people run all the time? Perhaps the better question is: Should prototype be something that only the "elite" can afford to run more than 1-3 fits of in every match without going broke within a week? Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3407	Posted - 2015.03.18 21:19:00 - [19] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: However, should Prototype be something that people run all the time? Perhaps the better question is: Should prototype be something that only the "elite" can afford to run more than 1-3 fits of in every match without going broke within a week? I am not sure if that is the better question to ask. I had about 40 million from running basic suits until about 3 months ago. Basic Caldari Suit (BPO Raven) with complex Modules where I could fit an an Assault Rail Rifle. Was about 11k or so. Once I got to that much and realized that I had 40 million SP, I might as well run Prototype suits. In a month, I was still isk positive. Suit ran slightly less than 100k so I could lose two a match and still break even. Even if I lost 4 a match, that amounts to 200 matches before I go bankrupt. When I didn't lose two, used a different suit, or got more money for doing exceptionally well I extended that bankruptcy point. I am in no way elite. I am mediocre usually, 'decent' when doing well. Suits, especially if you opt not to use a prototype weapon, don't have to cost more than 100k when Prototype. It isn't like they are well out of reach of the average player out there. Of course, it is the greatest feat ever accomplished by the upper 1% to get the 15% to lobby for them. Payouts could be increased; it certainly doesn't hurt me as I already use mostly Prototype. However, pay outs were increased via vendor trash salvage which is what many people are forgetting. If payouts were to be increased, what are some ways of going about it? I don't mean to put anyone of the spot with "you can't think of something, well it shouldn't happen!" but I am curious what would be a good place to put isk amounts so competent players can run prototype without having to have an excessive nest egg to begin with. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Edau Skir2 Corrosive Synergy 811	Posted - 2015.03.18 21:22:00 - [20] - Quote I approve of all the replies here that state Proto shouldn't be run in pubs. Mainly because I am "That Guy" who you damn sure hop on a Large Rail Turret and insta-blap anyone thinking they're god because they run full proto. I run nothing higher than ADV in Pubs. 20K a fit? I never, NEVER, die enough in those fits to lose isk. Plus, the alternative....STD 10k isk fits or MLT 3k isk fits. It's called the grind for a reason, run cheap, run often and watch the iskicles flow like the Caldari's tears. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0 Scout gk.0/ Scotsman's Modified Scout gk.0 Commando gk.0

Vyzion Eyri WarRavens 2567	Posted - 2015.03.18 21:58:00 - [21] - Quote I find daily missions and the loot crates provide me with gear that saves a whole ton of ISK which makes public matches surprisingly profitable. Yesterday I put 30 prototype combat rifles on my commando, 30 rifles I never purchased, which should last at least 6 games knowing how much I die. My ADS is stocked up also with around 30 prototype launchers, not purchased by me either. I go to fit up suits, and there are tons of salvaged mods and equipment that end up saving me a few games worth of ISK. Then there's also raw salvage to sell which usually covers a game's losses. And now the warbarge dropping 60k ISK a day, that's another game covered. Give the protobears any more ISK from pubs and they won't have to run PC to stomp all day. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Otoky Dead Man's Game RUST415 178	Posted - 2015.03.19 00:15:00 - [22] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? Lets say you have lojality rank5 with a faction You win the battle so you recieve 1390LP (or 1370). One proto dropsuit in the lojality store is 150LP and 10k ISK. In the ISK store the same dropsuit is 57k ISK so the 150LP = 47k ISK. 1390LP = 435k ISK (if you spend to proto dropsuits). And you dont have to be the most high WP player, you dont have to run in proto or ADV gear, just be in the winning team.
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy 748	Posted - 2015.03.19 00:24:00 - [23] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: 200,000 is all you need in pubs. Proto shouldn't be regularly run there TBH. 200,000 is enough for some decent advanced fittings. The average decent advanced fit is 40-50k with nothing proto on it. That leaves for 4 deaths until you start going negative. Increased payout will balance itself out because everyone will be able to run their best and afford to push objectives and play aggressively while making a profit. i think matches would be alot better like this. Gassault Galogi Galsent `Open Beta Vet - 39 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 291	Posted - 2015.03.19 00:26:00 - [24] - Quote Otoky wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? Lets say you have lojality rank5 with a faction You win the battle so you recieve 1390LP (or 1370). One proto dropsuit in the lojality store is 150LP and 10k ISK. In the ISK store the same dropsuit is 57k ISK so the 150LP = 47k ISK. 1390LP = 435k ISK (if you spend to proto dropsuits). And you dont have to be the most high WP player, you dont have to run in proto or ADV gear, just be in the winning team. Thats it? All I have to do is wait a half hour to get into a FW match, pray my team isn't complete garbage so that we can win that match, and then hope the stuff I want to buy in the loyalty store is available under the faction associated with the match I just played? This seems reasonable to you?
Otoky Dead Man's Game RUST415 178	Posted - 2015.03.19 00:32:00 - [25] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Otoky wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Funny thing is if you run a few FW matches you can generally fund yourself very well in pubs. I must be stupid, but I fail to see how running in a game mode that doesn't pay ISK at all helps fund anything. Care to explain? Lets say you have lojality rank5 with a faction You win the battle so you recieve 1390LP (or 1370). One proto dropsuit in the lojality store is 150LP and 10k ISK. In the ISK store the same dropsuit is 57k ISK so the 150LP = 47k ISK. 1390LP = 435k ISK (if you spend to proto dropsuits). And you dont have to be the most high WP player, you dont have to run in proto or ADV gear, just be in the winning team. Thats it? All I have to do is wait a half hour to get into a FW match, pray my team isn't complete garbage so that we can win that match, and then hope the stuff I want to buy in the loyalty store is available under the faction associated with the match I just played? This seems reasonable to you? I play FW at the weekend when the queu time is about 1-2 min. I love FW games because the winner takes it all so it is MATTER who wins (not like in pub games). I dont wait for my team to win me the battle and 90% of the time I run in ADV gear. So yes, thats all. If you can find the joy in FW than it will pretty much fund your pub games.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 790	Posted - 2015.03.19 00:47:00 - [26] - Quote [quote=Joseph Ridgeson If payouts were to be increased, what are some ways of going about it? I don't mean to put anyone of the spot with "you can't think of something, well it shouldn't happen!" but I am curious what would be a good place to put isk amounts so competent players can run prototype without having to have an excessive nest egg to begin with.[/quote] This is a post I wrote up a while back in a different thread. I figured it is worth another look/different eyes on it. I just hate when I'm getting spawn camped and trying the entire match, but go like 4-12 with 300 WP, and get 45k ISK as a payout (I never said I was great at this game). THE NUMBERS ARE JUST OUT THERE FOR DISCUSSION'S SAKE. Feel free to offer alternatives. Here is something I've been kicking around for a while. Set it so each "position" on the end of match killboard has a set ISK amount of 120K. Then use a multiplier with WP to come to a total figure. As long as one of the 2 parameters are met (a total of 4 kill/death (any combination) or 250 WP), you get paid. If none of those are met, then the person is obviously AFKing and deserves no payout. Then take the individual's WP's and multiply them by "x" and then multiply that with the total payout. For example, for an Ambush match, I'll use .0025. I am on top of the board after the match and I get 1500 WP. We take 1500 WP X .0025 = 3.75. 3.75 X my first place baseline payout of 120k = 450000 Anyone who has less than 400 WP would go into the negative, so their payout would be less than their basepay. So we set it so basepay is the MINIMUM anyone will be paid as long as the parameters are met. If the top player goes apeshit and puts up 4000 WP or more, that is where we have some issues that need to be worked out. We have 4000 x .0025 for 10 X 120k is 1.2 Million ISK. However, we are not seeing 4000 WP put up in Ambush (Normally). So what I would do is adjust the multiplier on the type of match. Ambush are the quickest so they will not have as high WP totals as a Dom or skirmish. So for Dom and Skirm, we change the multiplier to say .0015. 4000 WP * .0015 is 6 x 120k is a 720,000 ISK payout. Right in what I believe is a sweet spot. Not too ridiculous but enough to make it worth the person's while. Those matches where you have one person putting up 6000 WP is cracking a million at 1,080,000 At 8th place for 875 WP (in Domination or Skirmish), we are talking 157,500 payout at a 120k baseline. In Ambush that is a 262,500. Again, those are just #'s I threw out as a conversation starter. If we want to adjust the baseline up or down, or the multiplier scores, we can. If we want to lower it down and then add in something for time in match, I'm up for that, too. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2168	Posted - 2015.03.19 01:16:00 - [27] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I am not sure if that is the better question to ask. I had about 40 million from running basic suits until about 3 months ago. Basic Caldari Suit (BPO Raven) with complex Modules where I could fit an an Assault Rail Rifle. Was about 11k or so. Once I got to that much and realized that I had 40 million SP, I might as well run Prototype suits. In a month, I was still isk positive. Suit ran slightly less than 100k so I could lose two a match and still break even. *Even if I lost 4 a match, that amounts to 200 matches 1 before I go bankrupt. When I didn't lose two, used a different suit, or got more money for doing exceptionally well I extended that bankruptcy point. I am in no way elite. I am mediocre usually, 'decent' when doing well 2. Suits, especially if you opt not to use a prototype weapon, don't have to cost more than 100k when Prototype. It isn't like they are well out of reach of the average player out there 3. *Of course, it is the greatest feat ever accomplished by the upper 1% to get the 15% to lobby for them 4. Payouts could be increased; it certainly doesn't hurt me as I already use mostly Prototype. However, pay outs were increased via vendor trash salvage which is what many people are forgetting. 5* If payouts were to be increased, what are some ways of going about it? I don't mean to put anyone of the spot with "you can't think of something, well it shouldn't happen!" but I am curious what would be a good place to put isk amounts so competent players can run prototype without having to have an excessive nest egg to begin with. *6 1: 200 matches for you and as low as 1 for others. 2: I put elite in quotation marks for a reason. I didn't mean actual elite players, I meant those that are a part of the rich groups. 3: You sure about that? From what I can tell the average player dies 3-5 times a match so that's 300-500k a match at that cost and that's when they're not trying; when they actually do try against the stompers it isn't uncommon to see several people go double digits in deaths 4: Just because it would also benefit the 1% it doesn't mean the rest are lobbying for them. Sure they'll benefit from it but they've already got a shitton of ISK, it doesn't make a difference to them. The rest though, it would make a difference to 5: When you're selling it to the NPC vendor it's just that. trash. Even with the market hooker's extra 15% it still doesn't get you much ISK unless you horde it for a while. Hell, I just sold off several hundreds of items that I've gathered in the past month or so and only got ~3.5 mil. 6: Currently I'm only arguing that there shouldn't be any payout less than 200k. Average payouts I'd put at 300k and then from there it can range depending on performance as it does now. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
Outlaw OneZero Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1601	Posted - 2015.03.19 12:51:00 - [28] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: 1. Of course, it is the greatest feat ever accomplished by the upper 1% to get the 15% to lobby for them. 2. If payouts were to be increased, what are some ways of going about it? 1. You're making the same mistake people make in the real world, the 1% income is in no way influenced or similar to everyone else's. The money they make or lose on Pubs is irrelevant. Sure they would gain from an overall increase in pub payouts, but that money is meaningless to them to begin with. Increased payouts, like increasing the minimum wage, puts more money in the hands of many more people. The great thing about a video game economy is that increasing the pay for 85% of the population doesn't have to affect the prices of goods (inflation). The rich get richer, but so does everyone else and that helps to level the playing field. 2. Corporations are hiring mercenaries to battle for them. They are theoretically paying for the clone biomass, warbarges, MCCs, installations, etc, to make the attacks, they should also pay to equip their mercenaries to whatever level they can afford. This pay should be agreed upon upfront so that mercs can plan their equipment usage accordingly. They should then pay for our time fighting for their cause (base salary). Victory should earn a fixed bonus for the whole team. Outstanding performance on either side should earn a bonus payment that scales according to contribution as determined by both WP earned and total value of ISK destroyed. Maximum total pay for each team should be capped to prevent farming and stay in line with the value of the service we are providing. Mercs that do not participate in a meaningful way should be excluded from all payments. Hello, is this thing on?
Vyzion Eyri WarRavens 2569	Posted - 2015.03.19 13:33:00 - [29] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: LUGMOS wrote: 200,000 is all you need in pubs. Proto shouldn't be regularly run there TBH. 200,000 is enough for some decent advanced fittings. The average decent advanced fit is 40-50k with nothing proto on it. That leaves for 4 deaths until you start going negative. Increased payout will balance itself out because everyone will be able to run their best and afford to push objectives and play aggressively while making a profit. i think matches would be alot better like this. Initially this makes sense, but then again, it should to us sitting here talking about increasing ISK payouts with 30m+ SP under our belts, minimum. Now, we flood newbies with more ISK, maybe they can afford skill books faster. Forgotten what it's like to buy your skillbooks with no ISK, getting protostomped every match along the way? So they get skill books. Then there's still the grind to get SP for all the "best gear" that ya'll vets assume everyone already has unlocked. That'll take dozens more matches getting protostomped by us. THEN they spec into something decent. A solid ADV fit, assuming they're the rare newbie who actually doesn't mind getting his/her face ground into the dirt over and over and makes it to that point. They have some ISK, they can start running those fits, they can start killing protobears! "Surely killing them 1-2 times will force them to give up prototype gear for that match and start running ADV gear.", so they think. But no, they now can AFFORD to keep protostomping, and will gladly do so, because I haven't seen much selflessness anywhere in New Eden and I doubt there's going to be a miraculous exception now. Sorry gents but all I have is the game's future in mind, and that means new players wanting to play. My logic is above, if I'm wrong feel free to shut me down, a good debate keeps my mind sharp. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Outlaw OneZero Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1601	Posted - 2015.03.19 15:24:00 - [30] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Now, we flood newbies with more ISK, maybe they can afford skill books faster. Forgotten what it's like to buy your skillbooks with no ISK, getting protostomped every match along the way? They have some ISK, they can start running those fits, they can start killing protobears! "Surely killing them 1-2 times will force them to give up prototype gear for that match and start running ADV gear.", so they think. But no, they now can AFFORD to keep protostomping, and will gladly do so, because I haven't seen much selflessness anywhere in New Eden and I doubt there's going to be a miraculous exception now. Not quite sure where you stand here, do you support or oppose higher payouts? I assume oppose on the grounds that it will let the protostompers continue without thinking about ISK efficiency. I suggest to you that's already how it works. Getting killed 1-2 times or many more a match, simply has no impact on the people that are regularly running full proto. They have enough money to continue doing so nearly indefinitely, no matter the losses. What it does do, is allow people who are trying to be ISK efficient to run a higher quality of gear for longer to put up better resistance without worrying about losing ISK or going broke. Some of the best fights I've ever seen were right before resets during beta and that one time when payouts were bugged and giving out way too much ISK. Everyone ran the best equipment they could field and fights frequently went right down to the last few clones or tick of armor on both MCCs. Why should we keep theorizing though? CCP can just run an event where they increase base payouts on all contracts by 200k ISK to all mercs(exclude AFKers) and see how it goes. Hello, is this thing on?



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