DUST Search - How I would balance the myofibril situation

TheD1CK wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

I think something else that might also help curtail the "panic jumping" and at the same time force more skill into the use of myos would be to make it where your jump height is affected by how long you press X.

A short press results in a smaller jump while a longer press gives you full jump height.

This would add an element of control to jumping while at the same time adding an interval delay to several high jumps making several quick high jumps impossible.

This would be great, and your stamina depletes, depending how long you held x to increase jump height
so a jump fitting can choose between low and high jumps and the high jumps tire you out faster so it can't be spammed

so quickly tapping x, low jump , low staminas usage
then holding x, vaulting 30m into the air, uses a greater chunk of stamina

I'm not thrilled by the update, but it adds some sorely needed fun to Dust gameplay
- my main concern is CCP going back undercover and leaving a month of HaloFish514..
this mechanic change could work out well, but Dust combat has gotten stale and repetitive during hotfixes

adding super jumps does not change that, we need more content and more modes to use it in.

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Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5316	Posted - 2015.03.14 11:04:00 - [1] - Quote No stacking penalty, no nerfing of jump height, but larger jumps require more stamina. If you don't have enough stamina for the increased jump, you don't reach your maximum height as per normal. For a super high jump, you may require a cardiac regulator -- this effects your low slot modules so it forces you to make difficult choices to reach that kind of jump height. This solution prevents repeated bunny hopping, and makes super high jumpers (4-5 myro's) a bit more glassy. But it retains freedom for extreme jumping when the map might call for it. Both parties walk away with a decent compromise. Is it a "realistic" solution? No, not really. But it is a good balance solution. Usually banned for being too awesome.
xavier zor 0uter.Heaven 834	Posted - 2015.03.14 11:10:00 - [2] - Quote This idea seems plausable When i logged in to use them, i was always dying to my own falling damage so i don't think they will be a problem for much longer....people will get over them retired stabbed musturd, duna, radar, tibs replying -í° -£-û -í°
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 277	Posted - 2015.03.14 11:17:00 - [3] - Quote I would be ok with increasing the percentage that stamina depletes when jumping with jump mods, but I dont support making stamina jump depletion a flat number. I would suggest 3 jump mods have no penalty to stamina cost, but 4-5 increase stamina jump depletion from 33% to roughly 66%.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5317	Posted - 2015.03.14 11:18:00 - [4] - Quote I personally don't have a problem with them the way they are and I don't want to see my 4-myro min assault be crippled to some nerf. I love the extreme jump range he has. But I also don't want to see bunny hopping mass driver abuse ruin it for the rest of us. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9892	Posted - 2015.03.14 12:54:00 - [5] - Quote I think it makes sense. At least in EVE terms of realism, we both know how far fetched the logic of EVEs warpdrives are. Stamina Regulators could easily be said to increase your endurance allowing you for the repeated strain of using your Muscles constantly. *As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 659	Posted - 2015.03.14 13:06:00 - [6] - Quote Nice idea.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4748	Posted - 2015.03.14 13:13:00 - [7] - Quote I think something else that might also help curtail the "panic jumping" and at the same time force more skill into the use of myos would be to make it where your jump height is affected by how long you press X. A short press results in a smaller jump while a longer press gives you full jump height. This would add an element of control to jumping while at the same time adding an interval delay to several high jumps making several quick high jumps impossible. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 1230	Posted - 2015.03.14 13:42:00 - [8] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No stacking penalty, no nerfing of jump height, but larger jumps require more stamina. If you don't have enough stamina for the increased jump, you don't reach your maximum height as per normal. For a super high jump, you may require a cardiac regulator -- this effects your low slot modules so it forces you to make difficult choices to reach that kind of jump height. This solution prevents repeated bunny hopping, and makes super high jumpers (4-5 myro's) a bit more glassy. But it retains freedom for extreme jumping when the map might call for it. Both parties walk away with a decent compromise. Is it a "realistic" solution? No, not really. But it is a good balance solution. I agree with you on the most part, as far as it being a good compromise and balance solution. However... No stacking penalty is something I have a bit of an issue with. Assuming the myofibs are a percentage increase on a base value (which they should be, according to the information we were given), why would they be the only such module (afaik) to avoid stacking penalties? Diminishing returns has been the name of the game in Eve AND Dust, so why would this one module be exempt from the rule that applies to other modules of this nature? Increased mobility is definitely good, don't get me wrong. Heavies having a way to jump over those tiny little curbs, to scouts being able to jump over medium sized obstacles for a surprise attack, all good. But I don't see anything particularly good about this constant hopping all over the place we have now (which your stamina solution helps with). Or encouraging people to go for ridiculous fits of stacking 5 myos so they can fly either. I mean, seriously, poor dropship pilots, aren't their lives hard enough as it is without having to dodge flying scouts now, too? ;) Rattati has already stated he's considering capping the number of myos that can be equipped at 3. While that would be a simpler solution than implementing the stacking penalty they surely were meant to have in the first place, it is also less elegant, and more restrictive, no? Stacking penalties don't stop everyone from stacking on 3rd, 4th, even 5th damage mods, as it is, even though for many situations, such builds are far from optimal too. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1852	Posted - 2015.03.14 13:52:00 - [9] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I think something else that might also help curtail the "panic jumping" and at the same time force more skill into the use of myos would be to make it where your jump height is affected by how long you press X. A short press results in a smaller jump while a longer press gives you full jump height. This would add an element of control to jumping while at the same time adding an interval delay to several high jumps making several quick high jumps impossible. This would be great, and your stamina depletes, depending how long you held x to increase jump height so a jump fitting can choose between low and high jumps and the high jumps tire you out faster so it can't be spammed so quickly tapping x, low jump , low staminas usage then holding x, vaulting 30m into the air, uses a greater chunk of stamina I'm not thrilled by the update, but it adds some sorely needed fun to Dust gameplay - my main concern is CCP going back undercover and leaving a month of HaloFish514.. this mechanic change could work out well, but Dust combat has gotten stale and repetitive during hotfixes adding super jumps does not change that, we need more content and more modes to use it in.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5322	Posted - 2015.03.14 13:56:00 - [10] - Quote In my mind 3 isn't always good enough. It will get you on top of large crates if you have a sprint going. But 4 is what gets you onto the second story of buildings and creates an alternative solution to constant ADS spam for uplink removal. 4 is what makes the myo's so damn fun. If he kills the viability of 4, he kills most of the fun. After 4, everything is overkill. Usually banned for being too awesome.

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 4905	Posted - 2015.03.14 17:23:00 - [11] - Quote Everything gets out of this fine except caldari.. I know you're looking for balance but once can caldari have something nice other that that hit detection scout? It gimps the cal even more but gal can still have nearly 600 armor no penalties, min dual tanks so it's fine, Amarr's fat. Everything in this game that gives you an advantage goes in high's allowing every suit but cal to play the way they normally do without gimping it. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8481	Posted - 2015.03.14 17:26:00 - [12] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I think something else that might also help curtail the "panic jumping" and at the same time force more skill into the use of myos would be to make it where your jump height is affected by how long you press X. A short press results in a smaller jump while a longer press gives you full jump height. This would add an element of control to jumping while at the same time adding an interval delay to several high jumps making several quick high jumps impossible. Yeah. There is that little container above the Hanger A objective that you would swear you could just step over, but now if you fit Myos you either choose to try and run around, or jump over the container... Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
m621 zma 325	Posted - 2015.03.14 18:03:00 - [13] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I think something else that might also help curtail the "panic jumping" and at the same time force more skill into the use of myos would be to make it where your jump height is affected by how long you press X. A short press results in a smaller jump while a longer press gives you full jump height. This would add an element of control to jumping while at the same time adding an interval delay to several high jumps making several quick high jumps impossible. This would be great, and your stamina depletes, depending how long you held x to increase jump height so a jump fitting can choose between low and high jumps and the high jumps tire you out faster so it can't be spammed so quickly tapping x, low jump , low staminas usage then holding x, vaulting 30m into the air, uses a greater chunk of stamina I'm not thrilled by the update, but it adds some sorely needed fun to Dust gameplay - my main concern is CCP going back undercover and leaving a month of HaloFish514.. this mechanic change could work out well, but Dust combat has gotten stale and repetitive during hotfixes adding super jumps does not change that, we need more content and more modes to use it in. Probably the only thing Kain has ever said that I agree with. Super jumps are fine, but the mechanic is lacking in finesse and control. Only downside to giving more control is well... All the QQ there will be.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3527	Posted - 2015.03.14 19:30:00 - [14] - Quote Seems like a fair proposal. I'd probably enable their stacking penalty first, though. I also disagree strongly about adding the ability to vary your jump height -- that's one of the few disadvantages of them as it sits now and changing that would make them ever more OP. GGs last night, by the way.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4753	Posted - 2015.03.14 22:54:00 - [15] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Seems like a fair proposal. I'd probably enable their stacking penalty first, though. I also disagree strongly about adding the ability to vary your jump height -- that's one of the few disadvantages of them as it sits now and changing that would make them ever more OP. GGs last night, by the way. The control would come at a cost. If you end up with Y amount of time to "charge" your jump then you can't instantly jump high to get out of danger. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 436	Posted - 2015.03.14 23:07:00 - [16] - Quote Humans have always been intrigued with the possibility of flight. CCP just gave us drugs, of course those using it are addicted. No surprises here RATATATAGäó CCP WhoeverGäó Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6685	Posted - 2015.03.14 23:40:00 - [17] - Quote That's... Actually a good idea. What if there was a mechanic to using these super jumps, though, similar to the movement speed and sprint speed? As you know, there is only one type of jump. You press X and you jump. What if there was a Long Jump? In real life, you have to bend your knees and a few other things (get closer to the ground) to have a greater time building up strength to jump upwards, resulting in a jump with greater height. In this game, you just hop (and stand in mid-air lol). What if, to do a Long Jump, you had to crouch first? By crouching, you could get your character closer to the ground and repel off with greater force resulting in the current height. The regular hop would be increased by a lower multiplier,so that heavies can at least take some advantage off of it and it would kind of make sense. I don't know. It would stop the current super jumps being viable in combat, while leaving them available for navigation purposes.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 2549	Posted - 2015.03.15 00:24:00 - [18] - Quote +1 to mercs having to look all constipated a few seconds before leaping 15m into the air. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Kierkegaard Soren Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 728	Posted - 2015.03.15 00:27:00 - [19] - Quote Good solution. I support it. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 9101	Posted - 2015.03.15 00:34:00 - [20] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No stacking penalty, no nerfing of jump height, but larger jumps require more stamina. If you don't have enough stamina for the increased jump, you don't reach your maximum height as per normal. For a super high jump, you may require a cardiac regulator -- this effects your low slot modules so it forces you to make difficult choices to reach that kind of jump height. This solution prevents repeated bunny hopping, and makes super high jumpers (4-5 myro's) a bit more glassy. But it retains freedom for extreme jumping when the map might call for it. Both parties walk away with a decent compromise. Is it a "realistic" solution? No, not really. But it is a good balance solution. Himiko Kuronaga dropping logic that I actually agree with. Hell must have frozen over and Dust 514 must really be dying. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*

John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1422	Posted - 2015.03.15 00:34:00 - [21] - Quote No, no, no and NO. Jumps ruined map design. Jumps ruined infantry vs tanks. Jumps ruined infantry vs dropships. Jumps ruined infantry vs infantry. Jumps must be REMOVED. Please support fair play!
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5334	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:02:00 - [22] - Quote Jumps enhanced map design. Jumps did nothing to infantry vs tanks. To hell with dropships. Infantry vs Infantry has never been better. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 1231	Posted - 2015.03.15 06:33:00 - [23] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Jumps enhanced map design. Jumps did nothing to infantry vs tanks. To hell with dropships. Infantry vs Infantry has never been better. Jumps absolutely made the maps more accessible; whether the extent of it is all pure improvement is a matter of opinion. From what I keep hearing about PLC fire from above for one thing, I'm pretty sure saying jumps had no effect on infantry vs tanks is incorrect. Not a bad thing for the infantry, less great for the tanks. Infantry vs dropships was affected in the sense that once again, the role of dropships (which was slim enough to begin with) was diminished. But, sure, to hell with dropships. Infantry vs infantry being better than ever is most certainly a matter of opinion, as well. "Fun" is not something you can measure or determine objectively. Is this better than pure brick tank meta? Quite probably. I think quite a few players would agree that anything is better than brick tank meta. But I see this as flirting dangerously close to being a case of another module you have to stack on to be able to compete. I would love to see other modules (and new modules), for instance other biotics modules made as appealing (super effective, with a double effect, combined with relatively easy to fit), so we'd see actual variety as the norm as opposed to just going from brick tank meta to frogger meta. Maybe CCP needs to go this route with all modules. Remove all stacking penalties. Buff damage mods, kincats, ewar mods (particularly range amps which are a joke atm) etc. Reward all specialization in one aspect as much as they reward stacking on myofibs. Sounds fair to me. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5335	Posted - 2015.03.15 06:49:00 - [24] - Quote Thor Odinson and a ton of mexican AV'rs spent the better part of a pub attempting to bullrush my lone madrugar, and several of them were using plasma cannons in the manner you just described. Went 22/0, no tank deaths. Slam the fuel injector, back up, and they are dead. Tanks are strong right now. Any buff that jumping ability might have given infantry against tanks was immediately dwarfed by their own buffs. The real infantry buff against tanks were increasing AV grenades held, and you don't need jumpers to get that close. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 441	Posted - 2015.03.15 06:50:00 - [25] - Quote I don't see how infantry vs vehicles has been ruined considering that damage mods and myos are both in the high slots. 3 myos is not a ridiculous jump height. If the hancocks are stacking 4 or 5 they are at base HP with poor regen, why not let them. Sure I think with 4 or 5 it's a crazy jump height but it only takes a little bit of damage to be dealt to the stuck-in-1-motion target for them to die to fall damage. My assumption is that people are not used to it and are overwhelmed by the arbitrary actions now. The explosive weapons are complimented hugely by myos though.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5335	Posted - 2015.03.15 06:56:00 - [26] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Infantry vs dropships was affected in the sense that once again, the role of dropships (which was slim enough to begin with) was diminished. But, sure, to hell with dropships. That's right. To hell with dropships! Tired of that meta. They set up AV nets, shut down AV nets, place force projection, remove force projection, hunt infantry, hunt tanks, and run away like little sissies the moment anyone looks at them with ill intent. To hell with dropships! Being able to jump up and high five the low flying bastards with a Lai Dai is the best thing to happen to this game. I only wish I could've seen Parth0k's face when half our team jumped up and tackled him out of the air the other day :D Usually banned for being too awesome.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 441	Posted - 2015.03.15 07:01:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Being able to jump up and high five the low flying bastards with a Lai Dai is the best thing to happen to this game. I only wish I could've seen Parth0k's face when half our team jumped up and tackled him out of the air the other day :D LoOLOlollolL I saw THUNDERGOOVE and some others not sure who do it, priceless sights in Dust 514.


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