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Clone D
Solo Zen
1603
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Posted - 2015.03.13 14:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
State your position and why you think so. |
7 Djin
The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION
52
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
One scout vs a team in cover: No cover is not dead in this case, the scout has his work cut out for him he will have to be very cunning and lucky to scrape all 5-6 of you off the covered lab.
Two scouts: watch all doors and roof enterences good luck not being the first one in your group to get ganked. A tiny bit of teamwork and your survival in cover drops.
Four prototype scouts: just bend over and touch your toes. Unless you have a means to keep moving and gun for noobs. |
Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
691
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alas, I have yet to play the new patch.
I am curious as to whether the maps are playing differently because of jumping. There used to be tons of places you couldn't access without a DS.
Are people taking advantage of splash weapons?
It doesn't sound like the same strafe to win crap as it has always been, that's a plus.
World of hurt
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thomas mak
The Nether Dragon
97
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
First I must state that I am a tanker I agree with this player because after seeing those people on the top of some shorter building( or items), I know I (and my tank)can't hide behind buildings(or items), it is annoying that people can simply jump though those buildings( or items) onto the top of my tank, in the past I can hide behind something and only pop half of my tank or LAV to shoot people, now there are no people to shoot at because they are all on top of my tank/ had blow up my lovly LAV.
I am a tanker and a pilot
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7 Djin
The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION
52
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Proto Annihilator wrote:Alas, I have yet to play the new patch.
I am curious as to whether the maps are playing differently because of jumping. There used to be tons of places you couldn't access without a DS.
Are people taking advantage of splash weapons?
It doesn't sound like the same strafe to win crap as it has always been, that's a plus.
It's strafing strafing everywhere! Almost all my engagements begin and end with strafing in this meta, plasma cannon and shotty are the rare exceptions now, jump fly pop. |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
933
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Whats the point in taking cover when the enemy can leap over your cover.
The maps where it hasn't been screwed over by the blue moon frogs are the one's with either lots of enclosed spaces, or some wide open spaces where you can see them a mile away.
I will admit though, wiped a bunny hopping scout off the nose of my dropship. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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7 Djin
The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION
52
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:
I will admit though, wiped a bunny hopping scout off the nose of my dropship. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
The first time I chased someone behind a container, only to find that they had jumped over said container and run round and shotgunned me in the back I thought, cool. Makes a change to falling for the ol scout RE trick.... every darn time.
Problem is when they can jump high enough to rain splash damage down behind cover. In this case yes cover has become obsolete as a leaping red basically has the permanent high ground.
I think it's interesting some of the new routes into/out of objectives that have been opened up but at present they have basically negated all of the map design by being able to leap all the walls, structures, obstacles.
It's probably a little broken at the moment but there is also probably some good here. It needs longer to play out before anything definite can be concluded.... It does at present however, I think, make the game much harder for noobs such as myself as vets now have another massive advantage over us.
Maybe I've just not adjusted yet..... |
LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION
2742
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maybe, have yet to play, but I could see the tanker's argument. Tracking in am tank turret must be hell from how slow it is.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2356
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Let's look at a video done by jolly roger.
In his video there's a great number of circumstances starting at around 1minute in that demonstrate that he is able to use cover to shield himself from his opponents, but then jump above cover to attack them in a manner that they don't expect without them being able to retaliate in a similar manner.
He is able to do this for 51cpu and 3pg. Myo's provide considerably more movement options and situational advantages than kincats do, for a LOT lower pg costs and ~ double the cpu.
In addition some of us are still trying to figure out if this module is working correctly, and based on evaluation of foot height when a jump is made for complex modules, it seems like the complex myo might be giving the same bonus to jump height as it does to melee which would make it about 2x as good as intended, though the data isn't entirely clear currently.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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7 Djin
The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION
54
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Maybe, have yet to play, but I could see the tanker's argument. Tracking in am tank turret must be hell from how slow it is.
Plus good luck finding cover from the jumping plasma cannon av nade scouts. |
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8454
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
No...
I used cover very effectively yesterday.
People can't jump an infinite amount of times, they are vulnerable mid air, and they have to stack a pretty good amount of Myos to be able to jump over cover, thus sacrificing shield HP.
People were using PLCs, MDs, and Flaylocks to take others out around corners forever. I think it does change the dynamics, and that you have more strategic options and strategic strengths/weaknesses, but it doesn't completely negate cover or make it even close to useless.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION
2743
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
7 Djin wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Maybe, have yet to play, but I could see the tanker's argument. Tracking in am tank turret must be hell from how slow it is. Plus good luck finding cover from the jumping plasma cannon av nade scouts. 'Tis what I said. It is going to be hell.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4736
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Clone D wrote:State your position and why you think so.
Yes, the key now is that you cover is a momentary part of the combat flow. Remaining stationary behind a piece of cover for a long period of time will end with your enemy countering your position.
Basically Dust has put a real emphasis on the philosophy of bounding overwatch.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4450
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Maybe, have yet to play, but I could see the tanker's argument. Tracking in am tank turret must be hell from how slow it is. only if you're noob and haven't invested in proficiency yet. Prof three and blasters track fine. Jumpers, especially the ones with lots of myofibs, are really easy to track and hit.
Other turrets... well, you couldn't really hit infantry consistently with them anyway, so nothing's changed.
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6242
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Maybe, have yet to play, but I could see the tanker's argument. Tracking in am tank turret must be hell from how slow it is. only if you're noob and haven't invested in proficiency yet. Prof three and blasters track fine. Jumpers, especially the ones with lots of myofibs, are really easy to track and hit. Other turrets... well, you couldn't really hit infantry consistently with them anyway, so nothing's changed.
The jump really slows down at the top, if you wait for them to reach their apex you can many times make them kill themselves even if you don't finish them off. |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1407
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It completely removed a lot of the map design that seemed to funnel people due to the terrain.
Tactical gameplay now dead. MARIO514.
Please support fair play!
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Crusty Clown
Calmacht
7
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Another thing to think about now that we have the Barnum and Bailey's jumping circus every match is dropships. What is its role other than being a glass cannon in the sky? Gone are the days of placing uplinks on elevated grounds. I jumped to ridiculous heights and popped links with ease. Honestly feels like im playing a Halo wanna be. |
Everything Dies
Not Another Dust Corporation
1278
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
As others have stated, jumping + splash damage = paper-thin cover. We'll see how things work after CCP tweaks the effectiveness of jumping, but as of right now the main strategy seems to be to get high and rain down death from above. Roof camping hasn't gone away...it's only become more effective.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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DUST Fiend
16008
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jumping and throwing REs is hilariously broken.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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DUST Fiend
16008
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Crusty Clown wrote:Another thing to think about now that we have the Barnum and Bailey's jumping circus every match is dropships. What is its role other than being a glass cannon in the sky? Gone are the days of placing uplinks on elevated grounds. I jumped to ridiculous heights and popped links with ease. Honestly feels like im playing a Halo wanna be. In this patch in particular dropships have essentially no role at all. Even more AV on the field now in general, plasma cannon + super jump is actually really ******* scary if you're trying to do anything at all near the ground.
And now proto tanks are littering every match along with swarms of ADV and below, while you're still in your grandpa's fit.
It's a mess. Don't fly solo unless you're ready to lose lots of ISK. You can make it work with a good squad that has a couple tankers in it, if you fly smart and they keep **** off your back.
Our once glorious title of "Uplink Sweeper" has been generally ripped from us, now we're just back to floating coffins again.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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Boot Booter
Titans of Phoenix
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Let's look at a video done by jolly roger. In his video there's a great number of circumstances starting at around 1minute in that demonstrate that he is able to use cover to shield himself from his opponents, but then jump above cover to attack them in a manner that they don't expect without them being able to retaliate in a similar manner. He is able to do this for 51cpu and 3pg. Myo's provide considerably more movement options and situational advantages than kincats do, for a LOT lower pg costs and ~ double the cpu. In addition some of us are still trying to figure out if this module is working correctly, and based on evaluation of foot height when a jump is made for complex modules, it seems like the complex myo might be giving the same bonus to jump height as it does to melee which would make it about 2x as good as intended, though the data isn't entirely clear currently.
No he mostly likely has 3 myos and a green bottle, so you are looking at about 165 CPU and 17 PG. Just saying.
I think people just need to get used to it. Many people in that video were clueless as to what was happening. Check videos of people using the cloak the first day...
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Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
701
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Crusty Clown wrote:Another thing to think about now that we have the Barnum and Bailey's jumping circus every match is dropships. What is its role other than being a glass cannon in the sky? Gone are the days of placing uplinks on elevated grounds. I jumped to ridiculous heights and popped links with ease. Honestly feels like im playing a Halo wanna be. In this patch in particular dropships have essentially no role at all. Even more AV on the field now in general, plasma cannon + super jump is actually really ******* scary if you're trying to do anything at all near the ground. And now proto tanks are littering every match along with swarms of ADV and below, while you're still in your grandpa's fit. It's a mess. Don't fly solo unless you're ready to lose lots of ISK. You can make it work with a good squad that has a couple tankers in it, if you fly smart and they keep **** off your back. Our once glorious title of "Uplink Sweeper" has been generally ripped from us, now we're just back to floating coffins again. Good. I thought ADS were a ridiculous addition to the game anyways.
World of hurt
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DUST Fiend
16009
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Proto Annihilator wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crusty Clown wrote:Another thing to think about now that we have the Barnum and Bailey's jumping circus every match is dropships. What is its role other than being a glass cannon in the sky? Gone are the days of placing uplinks on elevated grounds. I jumped to ridiculous heights and popped links with ease. Honestly feels like im playing a Halo wanna be. In this patch in particular dropships have essentially no role at all. Even more AV on the field now in general, plasma cannon + super jump is actually really ******* scary if you're trying to do anything at all near the ground. And now proto tanks are littering every match along with swarms of ADV and below, while you're still in your grandpa's fit. It's a mess. Don't fly solo unless you're ready to lose lots of ISK. You can make it work with a good squad that has a couple tankers in it, if you fly smart and they keep **** off your back. Our once glorious title of "Uplink Sweeper" has been generally ripped from us, now we're just back to floating coffins again. Good. I thought ADS were a ridiculous addition to the game anyways. As I thought cloaks, jump packs, and nova knives that damage vehicles.
And here they are. Sorry that the game isn't CoD, it must be hard for you.
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Fly Safe
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3161
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 17:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
John Psi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It completely removed a lot of the map design that seemed to funnel people due to the terrain. Tactical gameplay now dead. MARIO514. Boing boing boing boing...
KDR matchmaking fixes everything but the stupid purple Quafe stuff.
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3161
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
John Psi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It completely removed a lot of the map design that seemed to funnel people due to the terrain. Tactical gameplay now dead. MARIO514. Boing boing boing boing...
KDR matchmaking fixes everything but the stupid purple Quafe stuff.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3517
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Obsolete? No.
Less effective? Absolutely
The ADS pilot and overwatch role have also taken a hit.
Mass drivers, flaylocks, and PLCs have become much more powerful.
Gameplay has changed as significantly as when cloaks and EWAR was introduced, IMO.
It will take some time for the community to react and align with the changes, as we are still in the infancy/experimental stage.
It will be interesting to see it play out. |
J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
2289
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Let's look at a video done by jolly roger. In his video there's a great number of circumstances starting at around 1minute in that demonstrate that he is able to use cover to shield himself from his opponents, but then jump above cover to attack them in a manner that they don't expect without them being able to retaliate in a similar manner. He is able to do this for 51cpu and 3pg. Myo's provide considerably more movement options and situational advantages than kincats do, for a LOT lower pg costs and ~ double the cpu. In addition some of us are still trying to figure out if this module is working correctly, and based on evaluation of foot height when a jump is made for complex modules, it seems like the complex myo might be giving the same bonus to jump height as it does to melee which would make it about 2x as good as intended, though the data isn't entirely clear currently.
Suit/Fit Stats http://imgur.com/ZXLz0vB Shield : 200 Armor: 175 Melee: 454 Stamina: 441 Stamina Recovery Rate: 110.25 Those are the important ones really you can look at the link for any others Medium Frame M/1-Series 3 highs: 3 Complex Myofibril Stimulant : cpu: 51 pg: 3 each 2 lows: 1 Complex Kinetic Catalyzer : cpu : 27 pg : 14 1 Complex Cardiac Regulator : cpu : 12 pg : 8 Allotec Plasma Cannon prof 5 Core Flaylock prof 5 Basic Remote Explosive Packed AV grenade
To me : is cover obsolete? no lol. Are you safe as you once were? Nope, now there is a whole new area the enemy can come from. Cover is still there though. Just now you have to watch up some too XD The fibs open up sooo much that was once closed off. There are soo many new routes to take. There is a new way of playing the game. If they aren't operating correctly I do hope they are corrected but I am soo hoping it isn't far off from where it is currently.
I played 5 or 6 games last night, these clips were from them. I'm not putting the players down but you will notice an abundance of the MLT suits. Not saying every one in them is bad or anything like that but most the people who have played this game awhile move out of them into better things. People will catch on to this and they will adapt (and I do think the fibs changes are a lot easier to counter/adapt to than they changes that came with the introduction of the cloak). Or they will make a thread or 2 about it. Ether way those who adapt will always be having the laughs XD.
No Safety Net.
TLDR : XD
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
9879
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Obsolete? No.
Less effective? Absolutely
The ADS pilot and overwatch role have also taken a hit.
Mass drivers, flaylocks, and PLCs have become much more powerful.
Gameplay has changed as significantly as when cloaks and EWAR was introduced, IMO.
It will take some time for the community to react and align with the changes, as we are still in the infancy/experimental stage.
It will be interesting to see it play out. I personally think the ADS is an abomination that should have never existed.
Flaylocks have become especially powerful....damn things are pissing me off.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
725
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crusty Clown wrote:Another thing to think about now that we have the Barnum and Bailey's jumping circus every match is dropships. What is its role other than being a glass cannon in the sky? Gone are the days of placing uplinks on elevated grounds. I jumped to ridiculous heights and popped links with ease. Honestly feels like im playing a Halo wanna be. In this patch in particular dropships have essentially no role at all. Even more AV on the field now in general, plasma cannon + super jump is actually really ******* scary if you're trying to do anything at all near the ground. And now proto tanks are littering every match along with swarms of ADV and below, while you're still in your grandpa's fit. It's a mess. Don't fly solo unless you're ready to lose lots of ISK. You can make it work with a good squad that has a couple tankers in it, if you fly smart and they keep **** off your back. Our once glorious title of "Uplink Sweeper" has been generally ripped from us, now we're just back to floating coffins again. Good. I thought ADS were a ridiculous addition to the game anyways. As I thought cloaks, jump packs, and nova knives that damage vehicles. And here they are. Sorry that the game isn't CoD, it must be hard for you. I don't even like fish.
You look like a blueberry
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