DUST Search - Scouts need more scan range..

Logi Bro wrote:

Sir Dukey wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone.

I disagree, scouts should have the greatest passives in the game. Imagine if Assault suits have more equipment slots than Logistics. You'd be pretty mad. That is exactly how I feel, why is my suit which is designed for something getting out played by something else. No way in hell should a logistics suit have more scan range than a scout without using modules.

Anyway, the problem will continue to exist if you buffed range amps. A logistics suit with a range amp will continue to have more range than a scout with a range amp.

That's a horrible comparison. Equipment slots are the most important staple of logistics suits, are you seriously trying to imply that scan range is the one and most important staple of the scout suit?

Scout suits have the most speed, lowest scan profile, lowest scan precision, a massive fitting reduction to cloaks, and skill bonuses that further improve EWAR, and you want to complain about how the logi is stealing your role just because it has more scan range.

A range amp buff would benefit everyone, which makes sense, because passive EWAR shouldn't be exclusive to the scout. It needs to be viable for other suits, hence the fact the logi's are better at long range, despite the fact that they have to sacrifice more slots to get their horrible precision to an acceptable level.

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Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1861	Posted - 2015.03.07 22:43:00 - [1] - Quote Amarr Scout is so crappy just because it has 30m range with max skills and 35m with like a complex range amp. A freking logistics suits has a base 37.5 just base with skills. All scouts scan range should be changed to 25m base or 30m base. A Caldari scout (supposely the KING of long range scans) at proto level has 7.5m more scan range than a basic logistics suit. 2.5 million sp worth scout suit has only 7.5m more scan range than a logistics suit. Great, that makes perfect sense. I would totally spec into a Caldari Scout for that extra 7.5m scan range. (sarcasm) Make Scouts Scouts!!! It's the most frustrating thing in the entire game to not be able to pick up anybody 31m out with my 18 db precision where as my Standard logistics suits could pick him up from even farther. Scouts have great Scan DB and Dampening but we are missing our scan range. We have the same scan range as Assault suits. At this point, it would probably be more beneficial to run a active scanner on a Amarr scout and tank the highs with Shield Extenders than run two complex precision mods. Literally I can make a better scout suit out of an Assault suit than most scouts. The only thing scouts have over scouts is the CPU/PG reduction to cloak. TL;DR buff scout scan range by 5-10m. Scouts should not have the same scan range as assaults. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
BLOOD Ruler Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1120	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:14:00 - [2] - Quote Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. Feel The Burning Pain Of My Knives While Your Skull And Mind Is Wrecked By My Pistol. I am the Assassin.
Diablo Gamekeeper Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:24:00 - [3] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. The new signature
Funky Pshyco 1.U.P 39	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:45:00 - [4] - Quote I think the same thing.. CCP Just remove that short range scan. When you are not cloaked.
Raven Harkonen Prima Gallicus 23	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:45:00 - [5] - Quote + 1 ~Un membre rond n'est pas fait pour un trou ovale!~ ~A round member is not made for an oval hole!~ Marquis de Sade
thehellisgoingon MONSTER SYNERGY 318	Posted - 2015.03.08 03:28:00 - [6] - Quote Yea why would a logistics have more range then a low hp "recon" suit. It's called a scout. You know, to scout an area out. Anyway my templar logi w 37m range, 2 complex precision get me scanning down to 27dB I think. Maybe scout range with logistics?
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 578	Posted - 2015.03.08 03:31:00 - [7] - Quote Nmmmmmdukey ~(._.~) The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, I'm that Heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1865	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:17:00 - [8] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Yeah because right now scouts stack range extenders and precision enhancers right? False, they stack plates and extenders anyway and run active scanners instead. Maybe giving more range would give them reason to run precision enhancers. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1865	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:19:00 - [9] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: Yea why would a logistics have more range then a low hp "recon" suit. It's called a scout. You know, to scout an area out. Anyway my templar logi w 37m range, 2 complex precision get me scanning down to 27dB I think. Maybe scout range with logistics? Yeah, it's completely bull crap. Imagine a scout suit having more slots than a logistics suits. Seems wrong right? But why is it ok for logistics to have more scan range which is a scout "thing". Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3479	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:20:00 - [10] - Quote I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone. SP Sinks? Fixed.

Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1865	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:24:00 - [11] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone. I disagree, scouts should have the greatest passives in the game. Imagine if Assault suits have more equipment slots than Logistics. You'd be pretty mad. That is exactly how I feel, why is my suit which is designed for something getting out played by something else. No way in hell should a logistics suit have more scan range than a scout without using modules. Anyway, the problem will continue to exist if you buffed range amps. A logistics suit with a range amp will continue to have more range than a scout with a range amp. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 437	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:46:00 - [12] - Quote This is a good topicGÇª It's nice to see players who are actually DEFINING the jobs that a True "Scout" merc would have. ( Too many players only want to "milk" the Scout-suits to provide them with inviso-powers while they do non-Scout activities). I tend to agree with Logi Bro's hinted point of view. In the game "Scanning" for enemies seems to be detached from the Scout's duties, and (unofficially) incorporated into the list of duties a Logistical player (or even a fellow Assault player) will do for the group of soldiers she is directly travelling with. In Dust, (contrary to what we would tend to think of as part of "reconnaissance" work), Scout suits are fine tuned mostly for quietness against enemy scanners, and for detecting anything that comes in close-threat range of the wearer, but intentionally NOT for detecting things that are OUTSIDE of close-threat range to the wearer. In short, "Recon Scanning" for her group is NOT considered officially the Dust-scout suit's job. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3479	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:49:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone. I disagree, scouts should have the greatest passives in the game. Imagine if Assault suits have more equipment slots than Logistics. You'd be pretty mad. That is exactly how I feel, why is my suit which is designed for something getting out played by something else. No way in hell should a logistics suit have more scan range than a scout without using modules. Anyway, the problem will continue to exist if you buffed range amps. A logistics suit with a range amp will continue to have more range than a scout with a range amp. That's a horrible comparison. Equipment slots are the most important staple of logistics suits, are you seriously trying to imply that scan range is the one and most important staple of the scout suit? Scout suits have the most speed, lowest scan profile, lowest scan precision, a massive fitting reduction to cloaks, and skill bonuses that further improve EWAR, and you want to complain about how the logi is stealing your role just because it has more scan range. A range amp buff would benefit everyone, which makes sense, because passive EWAR shouldn't be exclusive to the scout. It needs to be viable for other suits, hence the fact the logi's are better at long range, despite the fact that they have to sacrifice more slots to get their horrible precision to an acceptable level. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1135	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:20:00 - [14] - Quote If Scouts are going to get anything, it will be bonus to the modules installed. A scout that stacks nothing but armor/ plating should be about the same as a regular suit in detection etc. If they put on a precision enhancer, or range booster, the effect should be greater for scouts. That way, you have the option to choose your loadout. Of course some suits should have higher equipping bonuses, to keep them in line with goals etc. You want extra detection, or extra range, that's gonna cost you a module slot, but it's going to be more effective per slot etc. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Diablo Gamekeeper Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:28:00 - [15] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone. I disagree, scouts should have the greatest passives in the game. Imagine if Assault suits have more equipment slots than Logistics. You'd be pretty mad. That is exactly how I feel, why is my suit which is designed for something getting out played by something else. No way in hell should a logistics suit have more scan range than a scout without using modules. Anyway, the problem will continue to exist if you buffed range amps. A logistics suit with a range amp will continue to have more range than a scout with a range amp. That's a horrible comparison. Equipment slots are the most important staple of logistics suits, are you seriously trying to imply that scan range is the one and most important staple of the scout suit? Scout suits have the most speed, lowest scan profile, lowest scan precision, a massive fitting reduction to cloaks, and skill bonuses that further improve EWAR, and you want to complain about how the logi is stealing your role just because it has more scan range. A range amp buff would benefit everyone, which makes sense, because passive EWAR shouldn't be exclusive to the scout. It needs to be viable for other suits, hence the fact the logi's are better at long range, despite the fact that they have to sacrifice more slots to get their horrible precision to an acceptable level. Scan range IS the most important part of the scout The new signature
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 2025	Posted - 2015.03.08 06:50:00 - [16] - Quote The cal scouts base range us 20m now with max cal scout and range amplification skills it has a base range of 45m throw on a complex range amp and it's range increases to 51m chuck on another and it rises to 58.5m . The range isn't the problem with cal scouts it's how tac net bow functions. Just saying Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3100	Posted - 2015.03.08 07:06:00 - [17] - Quote Buff base range to 25m. Buff proto range amps to 1.2x (or heck, just make them flat meters with stacking penalties). Change the scan falloffs to 20%/75%/100%. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3100	Posted - 2015.03.08 07:08:00 - [18] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: The cal scouts base range us 20m now with max cal scout and range amplification skills it has a base range of 45m throw on a complex range amp and it's range increases to 51m chuck on another and it rises to 58.5m . The range isn't the problem with cal scouts it's how tac net bow functions. Just saying Except that any Logi can easily match that as well as have just as effective precision (both can scan med suits and heavies just a well, both can't hope to scan scouts). Not to mention that you lose half your range because of falloff and that <30m is just within just about every weapon's optimal range so there's no "recon" until you're getting fired at. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15425	Posted - 2015.03.08 07:29:00 - [19] - Quote You have the highest speed and unmatched stealth. Scanning is just the cherry at the top. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 2026	Posted - 2015.03.08 09:41:00 - [20] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: pegasis prime wrote: The cal scouts base range us 20m now with max cal scout and range amplification skills it has a base range of 45m throw on a complex range amp and it's range increases to 51m chuck on another and it rises to 58.5m . The range isn't the problem with cal scouts it's how tac net bow functions. Just saying Except that any Logi can easily match that as well as have just as effective precision (both can scan med suits and heavies just a well, both can't hope to scan scouts). Not to mention that you lose half your range because of falloff and that <30m is just within just about every weapon's optimal range so there's no "recon" until you're getting fired at. Your making my point for me again the range isn't the problem it's the way the tac bet now functions giving precision fall off at regular intervals . If the precision fall off was returned to how it was before (non existant) then the range wouldent be a problem. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 653	Posted - 2015.03.08 10:05:00 - [21] - Quote The name "Scout" refers to movement capabilities not scanning. Scans are just part of what makes a scout useful, not the defining aspect of the role. Also, precision and range are now closely linked. Logis have superior range, but scouts have superior precision. The overall scanning capabilities of both, before modules, are quite similar. The real problem are range amps, which have been nerfed severely and are now not really worth fitting. They should regain their previous values. However, improved range amps must not affect the precise inner scan circle. To do so would render stealth extinct from competitive play and have the knock-on effect of permascan for everyone (worse than it is now).
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:13:00 - [22] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I think the better way to fix this is to buff range amplifiers rather than just the passives of the scout. Scouts shouldn't just be the best through passives alone. I disagree, scouts should have the greatest passives in the game. Imagine if Assault suits have more equipment slots than Logistics. You'd be pretty mad. That is exactly how I feel, why is my suit which is designed for something getting out played by something else. No way in hell should a logistics suit have more scan range than a scout without using modules. Anyway, the problem will continue to exist if you buffed range amps. A logistics suit with a range amp will continue to have more range than a scout with a range amp. That's a horrible comparison. Equipment slots are the most important staple of logistics suits, are you seriously trying to imply that scan range is the one and most important staple of the scout suit? Scout suits have the most speed, lowest scan profile, lowest scan precision, a massive fitting reduction to cloaks, and skill bonuses that further improve EWAR, and you want to complain about how the logi is stealing your role just because it has more scan range. A range amp buff would benefit everyone, which makes sense, because passive EWAR shouldn't be exclusive to the scout. It needs to be viable for other suits, hence the fact the logi's are better at long range, despite the fact that they have to sacrifice more slots to get their horrible precision to an acceptable level. What good does having precision enhancers do you when you have no range. I can have 1 db precision but it wouldn't matter if you only had say 5m scan range. A scout is for ewar as an Assault is for Assaulting. Also yes, scouts have better base precision and dampeneing but in the Minmatar Scouts case, the Minmatar Assault is much better at ewar than the scout. It has an extra high and an extra low, a when you put a complex precision engancer and a dampener, you have 3 highs and 3 lows left, and it has better ewar stats than the Minmatar Scout- not to mention a whole lot more HP. Now if you stack highs and lows of min scout and assault with precision and dampeners. The Minmatar Assault will still have lower DB and lower scan DB while maintaining 2x-3x the HP. This is bullsh*t. A Caldari Scout will untimely have less scan precision than a Caldari Assault. A gallante Assault will have lower scan precision than a Gallante scout. A Amarr Assault will have lower DB than a Amarr Scout. They will all have the same scan range- minus the Caldari Scout vs Cal Assault. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:14:00 - [23] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: The name "Scout" refers to movement capabilities not scanning. Scans are just part of what makes a scout useful, not the defining aspect of the role. Also, precision and range are now closely linked. Logis have superior range, but scouts have superior precision. The overall scanning capabilities of both, before modules, are quite similar. The real problem are range amps, which have been nerfed severely and are now not really worth fitting. They should regain their previous values. However, improved range amps must not affect the precise inner scan circle. To do so would render stealth extinct from competitive play and have the knock-on effect of permascan for everyone (worse than it is now). Yes, but who has more slots? Yep, the logi which gives it the ability to use more Ewar slots while then allow it to have better precision than the scouts -excluding the Amarr Scout. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:16:00 - [24] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: The name "Scout" refers to movement capabilities not scanning. Scans are just part of what makes a scout useful, not the defining aspect of the role. Also, precision and range are now closely linked. Logis have superior range, but scouts have superior precision. The overall scanning capabilities of both, before modules, are quite similar. The real problem are range amps, which have been nerfed severely and are now not really worth fitting. They should regain their previous values. However, improved range amps must not affect the precise inner scan circle. To do so would render stealth extinct from competitive play and have the knock-on effect of permascan for everyone (worse than it is now). Also, Caldari scout has 7.5m more scan range than a standard Cal Logi. The Callogi also has 2 extra lows, 1 extra high which when stacked with ewar modules will give you a better scout than the Cal Scout. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:17:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You have the highest speed and unmatched stealth. Scanning is just the cherry at the top. The only thing we have is stealth via cloak, the assault can out do us in our ewar capabilities and definitely the Logi's can. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Ghost Kaisar Negative-Feedback 10401	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:18:00 - [26] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Then make the freaking scan range modules WORTH SOMETHING. EVEN AT PROTO THEY'RE WORTHLESS Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:36:00 - [27] - Quote Assault vs Scout precision-dampening-range- HP Cal Assault- 21.9-20.38-30-537.5 Cal Scout- 20-16-40-250 (less than half the HP and barley and better EWAR stats) Gal Assault- 23.71-18.44-30-537.5 Gal Scout- 21.41-12.8-30-250 (Less than half the HP and barely and better ewar stats except the dampening Min Assault- 22.37-20.38-30-500 Min Scout- 23.79-15.85-30-212.5 (less than half the HP of Min Assault and higher scan precision and same range) Amarr Assault- 23.71-18.44-30-575 Amarr Scout- 15.85-17.85-30-287.5 (less than half the HP of Amarr Assault with barley and better EWAR) Overall- all the scouts and the Assault have same scan range- except for Caldari. They also have less than half the HP and barley any better ewar stats. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
D4GG3R KILL-EM-QUICK 832	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:40:00 - [28] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Then there will be a bunch of shitty scouts running around, should be easier for all you other suit users. Speed is a scout's greatest weapon. I'm pretty plain. I watch anime for the boobs
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:40:00 - [29] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Then there will be a bunch of shitty scouts running around, should be easier for all you other suit users. Speed is a scout's greatest weapon. Yeah, speed is great because 99% of dust have Auto-Assist off right? Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Louis Domi Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 914	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:48:00 - [30] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Yeah because right now scouts stack range extenders and precision enhancers right? False, they stack plates and extenders anyway and run active scanners instead. Maybe giving more range would give them reason to run precision enhancers. Don't know about others, but on my scouts i stack precision enhancers

Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1877	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:50:00 - [31] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: Agree, if you don't want us to be assault then stop making us force ourselves into being assault. You know what happens if scouts get scan range buff? they are going to stack armor plates. Yeah because right now scouts stack range extenders and precision enhancers right? False, they stack plates and extenders anyway and run active scanners instead. Maybe giving more range would give them reason to run precision enhancers. Don't know about others, but on my scouts i stack precision enhancers What scout? Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 886	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:58:00 - [32] - Quote Why should a scout (something designed to get close without being detected) get range bonuses so they can scan from a distance? Why don't you just... Get closer? Seems like there isn't an issue here, you want range with less precision you Logi. You want precision but have to get close, you scout. You want to avoid the whole EWAR mess, use your eyes.
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1881	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:00:00 - [33] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Why should a scout (something designed to get close without being detected) get range bonuses so they can scan from a distance? Why don't you just... Get closer? Seems like there isn't an issue here, you want range with less precision you Logi. You want precision but have to get close, you scout. You want to avoid the whole EWAR mess, use your eyes. Why use a scout when assaults can do it and better? Also- In scout description- it says heightened awareness and counter-espionage- I don't see that in a scout. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
gekko k Grundstein Automation Property of Negative-Impact 77	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:03:00 - [34] - Quote Agreed. Give scouts more range. The close/med/far bs reduce the usefulness of TACNET by 50% for scouts.
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 230	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:09:00 - [35] - Quote LolGÇªslayer scout qq. I heard there used to be slayer logi's as well. Assaults are actually becoming relevantGÇªsee how this works? Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop


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