DUST Search - (Idea) Charge Heavy Machine Gun: Good or Bad???

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun"

It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare:

Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range.

This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range.

Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk?

The description of a short range weapon with a 2 second charge time is amazingly terribad in concept. It serves no useful purpose save getting the operator killed.

Although the guy above the post I'm quoting was even worse. Pretty sure he was trolling.

No trolll. It is a serious question for you. Normally I like your insight but in this I am pointing out the flaw in your argument. An HMG is not a forge gun. This concept HMG is not a forge gun. If you would have said "we have an HMG and this should be a variant" it would be ok. But saying it is the same thing as a forge gun is illogical. Last year I posted an idea for a heavy rail rifle and you said almost verbatim the same thing "we have it already. It's a forge gun" Explain how a heavy rail rifle or a charge HMG are the same thing as a forge gun. I just don't understand how you are making that correlation. It doesn't make sense.

because the mechanic is functionally the same. And putting a long charge on a short range weapon is pretty much a guaranteed dead operator. also your heavy rail rifle as described was a forge gun with a zoom function, and pretty much filled the same purpose. It's doubling up where we need diversity, not redundancy.

the reason I say a charged HMG is bad is because by the time you charge it, most rifles (and every other heavy weapon in the game) have already killed you.

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Sennina Sovereign Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 0	Posted - 2015.03.07 04:04:00 - [1] - Quote Hello Everyone, I would like to hear you opinion on this idea i've had for quite some time. As most of you know, there are 3 variants of the HMG: Normal, Burst, and Assault. I would like to propose a new kind HMG, The Charge HMG. I think this would be a good weapon if you have some skill with the HMG as it would (as the name implies) have to charge up before firing.The following is an example on how the weapon could work: Charge HMG: Charge-Up Time: 2.00 seconds Rate of Fire: 6000 Rounds per minute Magazine: 600 rounds Damage per bullet: 11.00 hp This weapon has no overheating due to it having to charge for 2 seconds before it can fire. Depending on the situation, this can be a pro or con. Also while it is charging up, the crosshairs on the HMG gets significantly smaller. I believe this would be a good weapon to add in Dust or in Legion when it comes out. What do you guys think on this idea? this is my first time posting on the forums so i would like your opinion on this.
Raven Harkonen Prima Gallicus 18	Posted - 2015.03.07 04:10:00 - [2] - Quote I could be a good idea for a new Heavy weapon!! Like an Amarr scrambler hmg or plasma for Gallente!! ~Un membre rond n'est pas fait pour un trou ovale!~ ~A round member is not made for an oval hole~ Marquis de Sade
DRT 99 Commando Perkone Caldari State 200	Posted - 2015.03.07 05:05:00 - [3] - Quote once spun up, this think would have 10 seconds of 1100 DPS before reload with no overheat. This is before damage mods and skills. And im assuming this is the basic variant?
Sennina Sovereign Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.03.07 06:54:00 - [4] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: once spun up, this think would have 10 seconds of 1100 DPS before reload with no overheat. This is before damage mods and skills. And im assuming this is the basic variant? Yes this is the basic variant, also it would more likely be 6 seconds of 1100 DPS and this would be before mods and skills
Sennina Sovereign ROGUE RELICS 88	Posted - 2015.06.03 01:32:00 - [5] - Quote Harmless bump
Terry Webber Molon Labe. RUST415 717	Posted - 2015.06.03 04:01:00 - [6] - Quote This weapon concept would be good for a Caldari anti-infantry heavy weapon.
Lenz Hong THE ANGELS CALL 25	Posted - 2015.06.03 04:07:00 - [7] - Quote Hm.. why not change the values a little bit? :S Since the biggest drawback will be the chargeup time (which can be, probably, managed with a minmatar-very-fast sentinel to strafe...) why not have a 700DPS?
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 278	Posted - 2015.06.03 08:35:00 - [8] - Quote I like the new gun idea. I do not know HMGs so, I won't put my input there. Still like the idea of a new HMG. x Starlight Burner CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.03 11:02:00 - [9] - Quote we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 421	Posted - 2015.06.03 13:06:00 - [10] - Quote This concept would be very good as a caldari anti infantry ( AI ) long range HMG. The forge gun is AV, it is not meant to be a 100% reliable AI weapon. Changing the values a bit, I would suggest a charge up time of approx 4.5 seconds and a clip size of approx 600 but the HMG would overheat at approx. 400 rounds. (this reduces the effect of feathering the trigger to reduce charge up time) Over heat seize duration should be longer than normal (approx. 150% )but have 90% reload speed compared to other HMGs. I would change the ROF to roughly 1900 and the damage per bullet would go up a lot so the DPS is approx. 90% (do not include charge up time in DPS calculations) compared to the DPS stat of the regular HMG (100% DPS comparison). The inverse dispersion should be adjusted so it is still be very strong and thus makes the Charge HMG have a much better max accuracy stat compared to the current AHMG. This would increase its usual attack range naturally but make it harder to hit targets up close because the ROF would be lower and the bullet dispersion is lower. (less dispersion = less user friendly in CQC 5-10m ranges ) The CPU and PG cost would probably be most appropriate at being between the regular HMG and AHMG. Having a slightly higher than normal PG cost would probably be beneficial to caldari sentinels because they need a lot of spare CPU for all those CPU intensive mods. The damage profile would be +10% armor/ -10% shields of course if it was caldari The inverse dispersion could occur at the start of charging up and reach max accuracy at 4.7 seconds (just after a full charge) to assist in hitting targets in the initial burst of bullets. The charge HMG could have a optimal range of approx. 54 meters. (65meters effective). This could be justified by the excessive charge up time (and seize duration, lower default DPS compared to other HMGs) which reduces its DPS in surprise firefights where the weapon is not precharged.

Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 873	Posted - 2015.06.03 20:19:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare: Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range. This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range. Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk? Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.03 20:34:00 - [12] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare: Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range. This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range. Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk? The description of a short range weapon with a 2 second charge time is amazingly terribad in concept. It serves no useful purpose save getting the operator killed. Although the guy above the post I'm quoting was even worse. Pretty sure he was trolling. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 873	Posted - 2015.06.03 23:24:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare: Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range. This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range. Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk? The description of a short range weapon with a 2 second charge time is amazingly terribad in concept. It serves no useful purpose save getting the operator killed. Although the guy above the post I'm quoting was even worse. Pretty sure he was trolling. No trolll. It is a serious question for you. Normally I like your insight but in this I am pointing out the flaw in your argument. An HMG is not a forge gun. This concept HMG is not a forge gun. If you would have said "we have an HMG and this should be a variant" it would be ok. But saying it is the same thing as a forge gun is illogical. Last year I posted an idea for a heavy rail rifle and you said almost verbatim the same thing "we have it already. It's a forge gun" Explain how a heavy rail rifle or a charge HMG are the same thing as a forge gun. I just don't understand how you are making that correlation. It doesn't make sense. edit I just reread the statement and realized you didn't mean I was trolling. You said trolling and quoted me so I put 2 &2 together to get 5. Sorry. I am still intrigued with your comment and would like to understsnd where you are coming from. I agree this isn't a very logical weapon. By the time it spools up the user will be dead. Heck, with a rail rifle that charge up time is brutal in even semi close quarters. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.03 23:28:00 - [14] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare: Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range. This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range. Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk? The description of a short range weapon with a 2 second charge time is amazingly terribad in concept. It serves no useful purpose save getting the operator killed. Although the guy above the post I'm quoting was even worse. Pretty sure he was trolling. No trolll. It is a serious question for you. Normally I like your insight but in this I am pointing out the flaw in your argument. An HMG is not a forge gun. This concept HMG is not a forge gun. If you would have said "we have an HMG and this should be a variant" it would be ok. But saying it is the same thing as a forge gun is illogical. Last year I posted an idea for a heavy rail rifle and you said almost verbatim the same thing "we have it already. It's a forge gun" Explain how a heavy rail rifle or a charge HMG are the same thing as a forge gun. I just don't understand how you are making that correlation. It doesn't make sense. because the mechanic is functionally the same. And putting a long charge on a short range weapon is pretty much a guaranteed dead operator. also your heavy rail rifle as described was a forge gun with a zoom function, and pretty much filled the same purpose. It's doubling up where we need diversity, not redundancy. the reason I say a charged HMG is bad is because by the time you charge it, most rifles (and every other heavy weapon in the game) have already killed you. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 873	Posted - 2015.06.03 23:36:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: we basically have this weapon already. We call it the "Forge Gun" It's not even close to the same thing. Lets compare: Forge: single shot, 1200 damage per shot ish, low rate of fire, long range. This: machine gun, 11 damage per shot, high rate of fire, short range. Why do you do this on so many heavy wrapon threads. The comparison is 1: horrible 2: does nothing to assist the conversation. Are you anti- new heavy weapon or just trying to be a jerk? The description of a short range weapon with a 2 second charge time is amazingly terribad in concept. It serves no useful purpose save getting the operator killed. Although the guy above the post I'm quoting was even worse. Pretty sure he was trolling. No trolll. It is a serious question for you. Normally I like your insight but in this I am pointing out the flaw in your argument. An HMG is not a forge gun. This concept HMG is not a forge gun. If you would have said "we have an HMG and this should be a variant" it would be ok. But saying it is the same thing as a forge gun is illogical. Last year I posted an idea for a heavy rail rifle and you said almost verbatim the same thing "we have it already. It's a forge gun" Explain how a heavy rail rifle or a charge HMG are the same thing as a forge gun. I just don't understand how you are making that correlation. It doesn't make sense. because the mechanic is functionally the same. And putting a long charge on a short range weapon is pretty much a guaranteed dead operator. also your heavy rail rifle as described was a forge gun with a zoom function, and pretty much filled the same purpose. It's doubling up where we need diversity, not redundancy. the reason I say a charged HMG is bad is because by the time you charge it, most rifles (and every other heavy weapon in the game) have already killed you. I don't necessarily agree with you the mechanics are the same but maybe I'm looking at alpha damage / range/ rate of fire whereas you are looking at battlefield purpose. So that part does make sense. I also feel they serve different niches but I will respect your opinion. Thanks for the explanation. I also edited my old post. I agree this concept doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Even the short spool time on a rail rifle can mean death in an engagement so 2 seconds on a short range weapon is impractical. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1	Posted - 2015.06.03 23:44:00 - [16] - Quote 2 second charge up time means you have no shields, and maybe 10% armor left. Just as those first round leave the barrel you will be leaving your dead clone in the dust. The silly things take nearly 1 second to be accurate enough to do any damage now. Add two seconds in front of that and scouts will absolutely love this gun. Heavies, not so much. If you charge a weapon it must do 200-300% more damage than if you just fire the silly thing. Otherwise it isn't worth using it, they are slow to start and expensive but to be worthwhile they must deliver a punch. Now, how is the weapon going to physically work? Charge weapons charge on HOLD, fire on RELEASE. HMGs spin up while firing on HOLD. They stop on RELEASE. Maybe using two buttons? L1 can do the Charge as HMG don't really zoom, L2 fires. L2 alone fires with no charge. That assumes the code can handle such a different trigger solution. So a new user will fire the weapon and maybe they will still survive, until they remember to hit L1 first. However, if you can walk around with L1 HELD and the gun will be charged and spinning (loud as all get out). L2 HOLD releases charged rounds. Continuos charged firing will overheat very fast. All of which is fine, except CCP hates Heavies being effective in battle. My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
Sennina Sovereign ROGUE RELICS 94	Posted - 2015.06.04 03:21:00 - [17] - Quote To improve this idea a bit, make its effective range be around 65-70 meters and its optimal range be around 150 meters. I was thinking of the Charge HMG to be a long range AI heavy weapon that is devasting in mid-far range while being difficult to use in short range.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.04 11:57:00 - [18] - Quote Sennina Sovereign wrote: To improve this idea a bit, make its effective range be around 65-70 meters and its optimal range be around 150 meters. I was thinking of the Charge HMG to be a long range AI heavy weapon that is devasting in mid-far range while being difficult to use in short range. There are much better weapon platforms In the game for a charge mechanic. When you stick it on a machinegun it comes off wrong, like it was added "just because." Lasers? Sure. Railguns? I'll buy it. Plasma? Why not? Bullets from a mechanical, gas-operated self-resetting, continuously moving bullet hose? Not only does it make no sense, the concept wouldn't serve any useful purpose. There's a certain amount of suspension of disbelief that is required to justify how the tech works. We don't really have common use weapon analogues of the laser, plasma and rail tech. But we do have lots of bullets. And I've yet to see one that has to be charged. Not even current miniguns have a percievable spool time. Pull trigger and begin killing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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