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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Doing mostly public battles, I run standard suit and weapon almost 100% of the time. This gives noobs the chance to compete on the battle field, yields me tougher engagements and satisfying kills, knowing I play and contribute to the game's health.
Seeing so many protos stomping the sheat out of noobs and killing player retention this way made me wonder: GåÆ How can we put a stop to this w/o blocking mechanisms via suit/weapon meta? GåÆ How can we encourage short minded players out for quick satisfaction to make game-heathy decisions? GåÆ how can we achieve this w/o patronising?
The answer came easy: Make them want it. Via rewarding systems.
STEP 1: Each EOM screen displays your most used suit and weapon, so this information can be used to reward match performance.
GåÆ make Ambush, Domination and Skirmish matches pay out pretty better for mostly MLT, STD and ADV users than Protos:
MLT>STD>ADV>PRO
Why should the corporations issuing the contracts award the win only? Have them award the economically viable use of resources (suit, weapon) towards an end significantly more: after all one loss today is not a loss in the war between the corporations. Achieving the most with the least efford should be rewarded the most.
This way economically wise/thoughtful battle decisions will be encouraged, not mindlessly throwing all you have at thine enemy for a small win at the cost of newer players. In the end your contractors are to evaluate your performance.
STEP 2: In addition, encourage proto use in FW and PC: the latter will barely need one, but rewarding it nevertheless is good to strengthen the overall approach: GåÆ give FW and PC a significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY higher drop chance of hacking cards if your EOM screen lists you as having used proto gear most of the time.
This will give players incentive to strive for FW and PC as well as Proto use there. Those new players having acquired their APEX suits with AUR will have much better than MLT/STD/ADV hacking card drop chances as well, but never as good as real protos. After all they have fielded a proto suit, but a STD weapon. Weigh it 1/4 to 1/3 for APEX vs. 2/3 to 3/4 for real Protos.
Giving your best for your faction or your corporation/alliance should have the goddess of luck shine her light on you.
Please discuss... |
Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
I should have rather posted this in Features and Ideas, sorry.
I now have...
Any which way: Please promote, fellow mercenaries. |
SILENT GIANT
FATHERS-AND-SONS
253
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Posted - 2015.03.06 18:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kinda Ps2ish. How you use up resources during battle. Except its puts the Eve economy into play and penalizes the people who are resource hogs.
I dig all the ideas really. It would prob refresh the concept of really being a mercenary in this game. It would cause you to be cautious of the gear you use. At the moment the economy might as well be taken out of the game completely. I've got more isk than I know what to do with, and even if somehow I lost it all, **** on it, I'll use a bpo.
Why does this game seem like its going in the direction of space cod. If Legion ever comes I hope its not like this. I really want to feel like my decisions matter. I want it to be difficult to succeed. I can understand the things being the way they are now, to be there in attempts to not lose anymore and help gain new players. I just hope that when the successor of this game comes out CCP turns the difficulty back up and puts it back into perspective that your a mercenary, money is tight, and you might not be able to run too many op fit cause your gonna end up broke. |
Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 19:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
SILENT GIANT wrote:Kinda Ps2ish. How you use up resources during battle. Except its puts the Eve economy into play and penalizes the people who are resource hogs.
I dig all the ideas really. It would prob refresh the concept of really being a mercenary in this game. It would cause you to be cautious of the gear you use. At the moment the economy might as well be taken out of the game completely. I've got more isk than I know what to do with, and even if somehow I lost it all, **** on it, I'll use a bpo.
Why does this game seem like its going in the direction of space cod. If Legion ever comes I hope its not like this. I really want to feel like my decisions matter. I want it to be difficult to succeed. I can understand the things being the way they are now, to be there in attempts to not lose anymore and help gain new players. I just hope that when the successor of this game comes out CCP turns the difficulty back up and puts it back into perspective that your a mercenary, money is tight, and you might not be able to run too many op fit cause your gonna end up broke.
I could not agree more. CCP should really make this a thinking man's shooter again. "Use your ISK and let it shine where it matters most: with your corporation's PC battles and for your people (Faction Warfare)."
For a mercenary, war should never be about having fun over-killing people, but feeling content and satisfaction with your performance in achieving a set goal, putting your contractor's resources to best use in the single engagement, saving him money in the long run this war is, and making a nice extra bonus for himself that way. CCP seems to have forgotten that.
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 01:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bump, keeping it on the radar... |
Union118
Heaven's Lost Property
456
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 01:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Doing mostly public battles, I run standard suit and weapon almost 100% of the time. This gives noobs the chance to compete on the battle field, yields me tougher engagements and satisfying kills, knowing I play and contribute to the game's health.
Seeing so many protos stomping the sheat out of noobs and killing player retention this way made me wonder: GåÆ How can we put a stop to this w/o blocking mechanisms via suit/weapon meta? GåÆ How can we encourage short minded players out for quick satisfaction to make game-healthy decisions? GåÆ how can we achieve this w/o patronising?
The answer came easy: Make them want it. Via rewarding systems.
STEP 1: Each EOM screen displays your most used suit and weapon, so this information can be used to reward match performance.
GåÆ make Ambush, Domination and Skirmish matches pay out pretty better for mostly MLT, STD and ADV users than Protos:
MLT>STD>ADV>PRO
Why should the corporations issuing the contracts award the win only? Have them award the economically viable use of resources (suit, weapon) towards an end significantly more: after all one loss today is not a loss in the war between the corporations. Achieving the most with the least efford should be rewarded the most.
This way economically wise/thoughtful battle decisions will be encouraged, not mindlessly throwing all you have at thine enemy for a small win at the cost of newer players. In the end your contractors are to evaluate your performance.
LORE-WISE: The corporations will pay you a standard fee for completing the battle and restocking basic equipment, a bonus for winning and destroying their competitorGÇÖs assets and an extra big bonus (the lionGÇÖs share) for not having risked or wasted their provided resources (base fee / expenses).
STEP 2: In addition, encourage proto use in FW and PC: the latter will barely need one, but rewarding it nevertheless is good to strengthen the overall approach: GåÆ give FW and PC a significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY higher drop chance of hacking cards if your EOM screen lists you as having used proto gear most of the time.
This will give players incentive to strive for FW and PC as well as Proto use there. Those new players having acquired their APEX suits with AUR will have much better than MLT/STD/ADV hacking card drop chances as well, but never as good as real protos. After all they have fielded a proto suit, but a STD weapon. Weigh it 1/4 to 1/3 for APEX vs. 2/3 to 3/4 for real Protos.
Giving your best for your faction or your corporation/alliance should have the goddess of luck shine her light on you.
Please discuss... I play starter, basic, sometimes advanced and rarely proto. I mostly play basic these days cuz I want the other team to have a fair chance at beating me.
Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2776
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 02:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Having an ISK efficiency stat would help a lot and is very low-hanging fruit. I'm baffled why this hasn't been a priority.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bump, keeping it on the radar...
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DarK KNigHT007
Corrosive Synergy
15
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
you said u run std 100% of the time Then why u need more isk as payout as u dont need much isk to run STD or MLT
The MosT ImportanT ThinG U
NeeD IS
LUCK
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11167
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Math seems a little confusing at first until people run the numbers, but so far this is looking like a solid idea. We are mercenaries after all which means we are guns for hire which means we are a business which means we have to be most efficient with our resources to maximize our profits.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Timtron Victory
Horizons' Edge
441
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Very nice read and definitely an easier fix than meta locking or doing something else that is rather complicated or forces players to field specific gear.
Godspeed
RATATATAGäó
CCP WhoeverGäó
Proud Christian
Jesus Loves You
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jane stalin
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
233
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 04:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't mind the occasional game where the blues are driven back into their initial deployment zone I don't mind the occasional game where the reds are driven back into their initial deployment zone However they happen way too often
I support anything that directly makes the game more balances or encourages players to make the game more balances. |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
388
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 05:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
OR CCP could have continued to market their game so that the influx of new players offsets the proto squads. All the more reason for this to be moved to the ps4. PS4 f2p seems to be accepted whereas PS3 f2p is shunned
One cannot carry hatred without having once loved. NKing the forums one thread at a time
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Assert Dominance
Negative-Feedback
1049
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 05:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
pls keep running all standard gear and make it easier for me to take your soul
blue dot, shoot him!!!!!!!!
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 05:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:pls keep running all standard gear and make it easier for me to take your soul
Maybe not constructive, but entertaining: +1 |
nelo kazuma
Da Short Buss Driving School
44
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 07:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Like the idea but needs a lil tweaking people would still rather proto stomp lose no suits n gain rewards anyway most em em have more money than they will ever need so their mentality is sp grind untill their capped or run bpos in which case it matters little on pay out perhaps something other than suit or vehichle use for is like if instead of insta boost for aura make it for isk (a large amount of course) to make people iffy on using it constantly and only one use per day aur after that so ccp can still make profit |
xavier zor
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
950
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 08:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
What a good idea
Just terrible numbers!!!
retired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGOuOaObVA<---KingThunderBolt fail montage
meh
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Gemini Cuspid
136
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
nelo kazuma wrote:Like the idea but needs a lil tweaking people would still rather proto stomp lose no suits n gain rewards anyway most em em have more money than they will ever need so their mentality is sp grind untill their capped or run bpos in which case it matters little on pay out perhaps something other than suit or vehichle use for is like if instead of insta boost for aura make it for isk (a large amount of course) to make people iffy on using it constantly and only one use per day aur after that so ccp can still make profit Pretty much the answer. Whole corps will proto stomp in a pub match just because they can; they'll die less and win easily. Even when winning is not feasible they'll just want to run up the kdr to their favor even if it means loosing a match rather than charge in. The basic fact is that winning a battle doesn't have tied to it any significant reward that makes players risk more in it
If I use a dragonfly scout suit with meta lvl 4 or less gear it's 2 shots lucky that kill me with a viziam scrambler and it's not like it's a rarity weapon to see. Oddly enough I think the only proto wpns I don't see myself getting killed seldom with are proto snipers.
The other factor is that skill pts do change game dynamics; if your running 60M sp's you have a pretty good array of fits and weapon choices as well as your core upgrades nicely maxed. Your running half of that you'll get your core upgrades to a good lvl where it counts but you're still playing selectively with wpns, suits or even vehicles. If your using half of that amount and sitting under 10M then you're kind of stuck with being the target most of the times.
There have been well over dozens of ideas on proto stomping: regulate SP builds, meta lvls, cost of items equipped, tiered battles, etc. Frankly I don't see anyone ever really making this happen because it's pretty damn impossible to do so and you typically need to have a set number of veterans in each battle; it does impact learning experience sometimes. But with nearly every game I play being hugely lopsided in the past week, it feels like things are turning a bit worse than usual. |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
998
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 08:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Having an ISK efficiency stat would help a lot and is very low-hanging fruit. I'm baffled why this hasn't been a priority.
I remember this being asked for in open beta and then a thousand times since then... even a "profit" metric at the EOM screen. It's just one of those billion little things they'll never get to... |
Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 09:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
xavier zor wrote:What a good idea
Just terrible numbers!!! Damn what's your people's issue with my numbers, they are flawless!
Just kidding, I simply pulled them out my arse on a sunny day to provide something to hold on to. They are meant to exemplify, are very simplistic. Damn the whole formula is simple as dosshid, so please don't nail me down on it. |
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 10:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gemini Cuspid wrote:nelo kazuma wrote: Comment... Much text, a nice read, won't go into details though I too have the impression of the situation turning a bit for the worse for our newbros.
I took the time and created a new alt with barely topping 600k SP, stepped out of academy and got stomped into oblivion....until I changed my suit and tactic: No more running into engagements head on, first in line, playing more defensive and supportive instead, and dang! K/D went positive, profit was made.
I think many a newbro could have that if the playing field was modified to provide a little bit of more breathing space. And that's what I was headed at: a little more breathing space to enhance player retention. Low budget, quick to implement solutions.
Barking up the tree of academy time prolonging, doing the same for better, not only race conform starter fits, but fits that work and are competitive, and give a good outlook at how to best enhance them in higher tiers. I do not claim to have the one solves all answer. It is merely one of many ways to maybe, hopefully turn the game growth into a more healthy direction. I don't even nearly have the numbers to derive good formulas from it, so please bear with me using overly simplified examples. If they so much as help make the direction a bit clearer, Iam happy. And seeing CCP already modifying the starter fits in hotfix echo more into the direction I and others asked for a long time makes me hope, that we can, together achieve even more for the game we love to play, for all who play it.
If you have any ideas on how to grow player numbers and keep them steadily and healthily growing with ideas that do not divert too many resources from CCP Shanghai's dev team, please, please please share them, and I shall promote them as best as I can.
Respectful
Templar XIII
*Please excuse my english, Iam no native.* |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
670
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 12:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bring back Skirmish 1.0 and FW/PC might be fun.
The current state of the reward system is something along the line of, kill 69 guys and get 2 decryption keys. No distinction is made between MLT or PRO guys.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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jordy mack
WarRavens
373
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 12:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
nice
Less QQ more PewPew
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
670
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'll also add that the gameplay is all wrong when you run cheap/free fits. When you have risked some ISK, strategy matters, death hurts, and mercs get serious. When I'm committed to my APEX loadouts, I actually have more fun, but my K/D and W/L has steadily declined. But since it is cleat that those things don't matter, I'm basically just playing an arcade game. In the original game design, Eve players were supposed to sponsor merc contracts, and supposed to offer premium rates based on performance. Now you could have payouts automatically generated based on efficiency, but who would care if you're just going to play free fits anyway?
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Medical Crash
RED 0MEN. Ashtar Federation
365
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
I've been able to mitigate some of the Proto stomping matches so far. What I've been doing is using my Gal Logis as a Scan mule. Use an ADV suit with all Dampners and sit in a corner using nothing but proto Flux (200M) Scanners. And if the clowns want to counter scan me I'll roll 5 Dampners on a Proto suit for 20 db profile (enemy lv5 bonus Proto Flux scan will not work on me.
Want to find me? Better use a highly precisioned scout with a lot of dampners or my squad will crush you.
Funny when people try to counter scan, I know the 24/7 scans are driving people nutz. Hahaha, I hide in the sneakiest places. See that suspicous rock? Yeah? Well I'm not behind that cause that's stupid. |
Dreis Shadowweaver
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
2228
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 17:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
This wouldn't stop anyone running Proto, because most people have so much ISK that they could run it till the servers are shut off. The only viable solution is to meta-lock pubs.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Dreis(Ishukone Nova Knives)saxonmish
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