DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Normalization of AV Damage Profiles

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

Greiv Rabbah wrote:

This is a frightening statement.
I've seen several times over the past couple years the mmo players that were brought here from other games get left in the lurch in favor of appeasing fps players that will either complain every time anything changes, or else will just move on to the next big thing whenever destiny/the new cod/bf/whatever the hot shooter is.
You've done some nice things to help with that, like missions and market, but it seems only if both the fps and the mmo groups are in agreement about needing it. Otherwise the fps group has more say by default, and if something needs to get cut its mmo bits.

Why? mmo players are long term players, and have a track record of long term players.
We also dont take issue with throwing some cash in regularly/somewhat regularly.
New players coming from fps's are more likely to leave when another shinier fps comes out, and are harder to sell the idea of a long term game.
Mmo players find an mmo they love and play it for several years or until theyve done "everything".
We are an easy sell for the long term game, but not when we watch you brush us aside so many times.
Especially for a crowd that's notorious for a short attention span.
This got a little long-winded sry about that.

I appreciate your opinion but these comments are wrong on so many levels , # PCMASTERRACE ... that type of thinking is bias and so outdated , it's like those who claim that they were quitting EVE because Dust 514 went to the console instead of the PC first , yes ... that was their major player base but it's always good for a business to branch out and make their presence known in different areas as to attract more attention , more revenue and help others understand who's developing quality games .

This type of thinking is so counterproductive , if you people get mad about such business decisions then it's clear that your not so committed to begin with if one or two changes that will benefit marketing and the company in the long run , is implemented and you suddenly jump ship .

I for one being on a console would have never known anything about CCP if it wasn't for that chance that they took working with Sony and for that I am thankful . EVE has been out for years and I have a nephew who plays it but it's just not interesting to me . I know this isn't about Console v.s. PC but the wording in your comment can't help me but to feel it's along the same lines of foolishness .


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 145	Posted - 2015.03.05 09:59:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, after a lot of thought on this issue, I want to get your feedback. Those I have asked, have unanimously supported the idea. I started thinking about the complexity of adding shield swarm missiles, plus the negative effect on new player understanding of the damage profile mechanics leading me to the concept of: The total normalization of AV profiles. I.E. Weapons just apply an X% damage against vehicles. This was done for the first time for Nova Knives with no real issues. I.E. Assault Rifles = zero % Forgegun = 100% Possibly in near future Breach Mass Driver = 75% Flaylock Pistol = 50% Nova Knifes = 50% (this is the current case) Pros Veteran Experience improved, no need to swap between shield AV and Armor AV Theoretical balancing of AV becomes much easier Authoring on CCP side becomes easier, allowing more rapid iteration on AV-V balance New Player Experience massively improved Eliminates the current imbalance due to faction AV parity Cons Lore Complexity I believe that an FPS in New Eden should not import overly burdensome game design philosophies, at the cost of enjoyable gameplay, and I think this is one of those cases. Keep it constructive and civil, just say yeah/nay and why Difficult to just yea/nay this. I'd say yea to shield swarms I.e. separate the rockets and the launcher. Kinetic/explosive/plasma/em warheads to give a racial variety on rockets. But nay to making swarms a flat damage to vehicles. This works for the can opener, sure, because its always been even damage to shields/armor, but I think av is advanced enough gameplay that you should understand damage profiles before you start piloting or fighting vehicles. Yea to making mass drivers FINALLY av again, nay to leaving out almost every mass driver when you do it(reason: lore) Yea to flaylock finally becomingban av sidearm, please also add lock-on flaylock for av cqc(reason:also lore) I think oversimplifying av will be detrimental to gameplay in the same way oversimplifying vehicles was. There was all this talk about new vehicles, and then most of our vehicles got taken away instead to oversimplify in the name of balance. Now you've been talking bringing vehicles back and adding (at least heavy)av weapons, but then backpedal into the realm of oversimplifying av. Dangerous territory I think. Hopefully you can pick some good stuff from this post but however you decide to handle it, please remember that cutting av to bare essentials like CCP cut vehicles down to bare essentials will hurt a lot of people Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 169	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:12:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Not really a fan. I think it waters down the New Eden feel too much in exchange for easier to balance mechanics. Just my personal opinion. That's not the primary reason, as stated. It's user experience and completely new concepts for players coming from other fps's. This is a frightening statement. I've seen several times over the past couple years the mmo players that were brought here from other games get left in the lurch in favor of appeasing fps players that will either complain every time anything changes, or else will just move on to the next big thing whenever destiny/the new cod/bf/whatever the hot shooter is. You've done some nice things to help with that, like missions and market, but it seems only if both the fps and the mmo groups are in agreement about needing it. Otherwise the fps group has more say by default, and if something needs to get cut its mmo bits. Why? mmo players are long term players, and have a track record of long term players. We also dont take issue with throwing some cash in regularly/somewhat regularly. New players coming from fps's are more likely to leave when another shinier fps comes out, and are harder to sell the idea of a long term game. Mmo players find an mmo they love and play it for several years or until theyve done "everything". We are an easy sell for the long term game, but not when we watch you brush us aside so many times. Especially for a crowd that's notorious for a short attention span. This got a little long-winded sry about that. Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 170	Posted - 2015.03.07 16:30:00 - [3] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Greiv Rabbah wrote: This is a frightening statement. I've seen several times over the past couple years the mmo players that were brought here from other games get left in the lurch in favor of appeasing fps players that will either complain every time anything changes, or else will just move on to the next big thing whenever destiny/the new cod/bf/whatever the hot shooter is. You've done some nice things to help with that, like missions and market, but it seems only if both the fps and the mmo groups are in agreement about needing it. Otherwise the fps group has more say by default, and if something needs to get cut its mmo bits. Why? mmo players are long term players, and have a track record of long term players. We also dont take issue with throwing some cash in regularly/somewhat regularly. New players coming from fps's are more likely to leave when another shinier fps comes out, and are harder to sell the idea of a long term game. Mmo players find an mmo they love and play it for several years or until theyve done "everything". We are an easy sell for the long term game, but not when we watch you brush us aside so many times. Especially for a crowd that's notorious for a short attention span. This got a little long-winded sry about that. I appreciate your opinion but these comments are wrong on so many levels , # PCMASTERRACE ... that type of thinking is bias and so outdated , it's like those who claim that they were quitting EVE because Dust 514 went to the console instead of the PC first , yes ... that was their major player base but it's always good for a business to branch out and make their presence known in different areas as to attract more attention , more revenue and help others understand who's developing quality games . This type of thinking is so counterproductive , if you people get mad about such business decisions then it's clear that your not so committed to begin with if one or two changes that will benefit marketing and the company in the long run , is implemented and you suddenly jump ship . I for one being on a console would have never known anything about CCP if it wasn't for that chance that they took working with Sony and for that I am thankful . EVE has been out for years and I have a nephew who plays it but it's just not interesting to me . I know this isn't about Console v.s. PC but the wording in your comment can't help me but to feel it's along the same lines of foolishness . Chill just a lil pleeze. I'm not saying anything about PC master race whatever. I'm saying Iddon't like the "favor one side forget the other" mentality there sometimes seems to be, and the mmo crowd doesn't speak up much we sort of roll with the punches so I'm speaking up just to remind rattati there's a balance to maintain not just in the game but among the player base too. Sorry if it didn't come across like that to you, but with a long-term game like this there are a lot of factors to consider. I for one contribute a bit of time and money to try and help this project grow and I know a lot of fps players that for over a year haven't contributed a cent and jump ship when it looks like the games going to change in any way they don't like. I do feel like mmo players are more long term players because of this and I use myself as an example because I've been playing and lurking since as close to the beginning as I could get in(no I'm not a closed beta vet, but I'm not much younger than that) and I still intend to keep playing this for as long as its out, I just don't want to see the game deteriorate into something thats unplayable for either side and the more "pure fps" and the less mmo the game gets, the harder it is to justify continued play or investment in this game Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 170	Posted - 2015.03.07 16:50:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think rather than making it PC versus console or MMO versus FPS the people who stay with DUST long term are the ones who enjoy the idea that you have to THINK to succeed Fair enough, and I really like that. I don't want fps versus mmo, though. I want a balance. I dont want this to be just a pure mmo, that was never the idea behind this game, but a lot of people call out to make it a pure fps and that was never the concept either. Have you ever heard of the game blazing star? It was an awesome space shooter on arcade with cool ships, great art, fun gameplay and some pretty huge levels. I used to think "wow, I can't see a space shooter get better than this!" And then eve happened and CCP's all like "well we have an even more epic space shooter in a massive galaxy that youll practically never be able to completely explore with stunningly beautiful art and so many more ships and weapons to choose from and enormous battles that make your little arcade space shooter look like childs play AND just to blow your mind its not just a space shooter its also an mmorpg!" And good job CCP, mind=blown. So when they come out and are like "if you loved eve, youll love dust! Its an mmo set in the same galaxy where your actions affect the balance of power in new eden the galaxy youve grown to love but get this: the battle system is fps style, and everything will be able to be owned and traded by players and its going to be a free to play console game!" and im like "holy cow CCP yall just blew my mind all over again! I suck at fps games but i cant pass up this innovative crazy fps/mmo hybrid on the ps3, which has so few top quality exclusive games. Sorry ps3 game library, but yall are gonna be collecting... Dust(see what i did there? )for awhile cause i gotta see this through!" And im serious, im in it for the long haul where this game is concerned. For all the hate it gets, this is my favorite game out and conceptually i think its fantastic although in many ways it doesnt live up to the dream we all had for dust which i secretly still hold close to my heart. But I don't want to keep chatting on on this thread, rattati asked for a yea or nay and I threw my 2 bits in already so I don't want to spend too long on here getting things off topic Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command 289	Posted - 2015.03.26 21:03:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: So you would want to swap to a shield swarm and back to an armor swarm as AV infantry? Example: A corp mate of mine, who is very good and very intelligent in this game didn't know that the weakspot of the dropship is the thrusters on the side until very recently. A lot of Casual DUST players don't even know that vehicles have a weakspot. For those wondering, that was me I couldn't figure out where the tank weakspot was till about three months ago. I don't really ever see the BACK of a tank running in a fatsuit lolol the delicate flowers of the battlefield know, you gotta shove the bomb right up its a** to be effective lol. we werent tryyyying to keep it a secret, scouts honor! Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face