DUST Search - A ramble about Shield Boosters

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never *ever* see a tank with 'half' hp.

You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second.

I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again).

I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card.

Trust me I totally agree. I would much prefer a higher HP, lower regen system than we currently have with active modules for those very rough times. I suppose at the very least with this idea I was trying to do SOMETHING to bring a more active element to the current tanking with minimal effort on CCP's part....but yes I totally agree with you.

I disagree with both of you , land craft have the biggest deterrent of vehicles in-game and air craft don't have to deal with half the things that LAV's and HAV's deal with . Most vehicle users complain that their vehicles are not viable because the fact that more people use AV now a days . I have PLC , Swarms and AV Grenades and can kill a tank with ease and all while not using a Min Commando or a Sentinel . Now I just don't think that you can punish the smart drivers by trying to kill the current structure and to be honest , HAV's need better survivability and this is coming from a AV user . Bad drivers die and good ones survive and their SP's are just as important then those who dedicate themselves to AV and with the upcoming instalment one can only wait to see but that in it's self will garner more buff posts from AV users because they will find it harder to kill them and that's fine with me because their upper tier , people complain about heavies ... see them , kill them and used them . There not that hard to kill but they should be because that's suppose to be their role and frankly scouts are harder to kill .

People complain about HAV's but they should not be solo'd , people get mad when they can't ... I can murder them and do so I guess it goes with the skill set like most roles in game , these next tier should be harder but people will push to nerf them or buff AV which will make the lesser tiered less desirable which the dedicated won't use to much anyway . I guess I would like every role to be viable and things to have a attack and counter attack effect but I find a lot of people that just do not care about balance but would like their style favored and that just need to stop .

You don't see many HAV users because of threads like this one where their singled out and bashed and to me that's a shame . You can't shame someone to not play the role they desired just because you can't best them but it happens on a daily . HAVs are bland and underpowered , people cry spam and complain about whatever they can't kill or have a hard time doing so .

If that's your liking then you should play BF or COD because Dust 514 isn't a easy kill and that's what keep a lot of players playing this game instead of instagank secessions from most on the market .

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5139	Posted - 2015.03.03 08:16:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so its late, and I may have recently discovered how awesome hard cider is. So forgive me if I'm totally blowing smoke out my ass. So I've been derping around with Protofits a bit, specifically looking at the Gunnlogi as of late and I've noticed a couple things, but specifically wanted to talk about Shield Boosters. Now the typical Gunnlogi fit with the new hulls is basically "Put your hardener on and then stack and many shield extenders as you can" which is....kinda crappy, since stacking HP is boring. I figured this was kinda lame and probably due to the fact that passive regen is basically most of what we have and really the only viable means of regen available to vehicles, at least HAVs. This kinda sucks. So not knowing what Rattati's plans are (if he has any) about introducing proper Active Shield Boosters/Armor Repairers, I turned to examine the only 'active' regen module we have, which is the Shield Booster. So, I know it has issues with it being interrupted and not working quite right....assume that'll be fixed so I don't have to hear about in your response. Everything here is under the assumption that the booster gets fixed into working properly, keep that in mind. For one, these things are stupid hard to fit, like nearly double the PG cost...that needs to be reduced to something more reasonable, like along the lines of a Shield Extender. Secondly, these things cool down way too slow to be considered a valid means of active regeneration. So a Complex Booster cools down in 40 seconds, 30 after skills if memory serves. I was thinking of reducing that down to something like 20 seconds after skills. That being said a Heavy Complex Booster would boost 1950HP every 20 seconds, which works out to be about 97.5 HP/s. Stack that with the proposed reduction to a passive 126HP/s and you end up with an effective recharge rate of 223HP/s. Additionally if you wanted to sacrifice a second slot for another booster, you could alternate boosters every 10 seconds for an even higher regen rate. For reference, a single Complex Armor Repairer on a Madrugar yields a total regen rate of 167HP/s. The obvious difference being that the Shield Booster has a higher effective recharge rate, and gets its HP nearly all at once, but natural shield recharge can be interrupted after the boost happens. Armor is a lower regen, but is more reliable. Obviously these values are just what I initially thought up, so dont focus too much on them...honestly I might even say make it 25s cooldown which after skills would put it at 18.75s which would push the effective regen a little over 100HP/s....but regardless, gimme your thoughts on the general idea. tl;dr -Make Boosters much easier to fit (Similar to equivalent shield hardener) -Drastically Decrease Cooldown of Shield Boosters (18-20 seconds after skills, currently ~30s) -Keep Current Shield Recharge Rate "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1010	Posted - 2015.03.03 09:57:00 - [2] - Quote Assuming that shield boosters get fixed: I agree that heavy shield booster's fitting resource consumption, specifically PG, is prohibitively large. The small boosters are in a sweet spot compared to the shield extenders. Less fitting requirements, larger effect, long enough cooldown to force a retreat afterwards. That's also why I disagree with reducing cooldown on boosters. The long cooldown is the downside to having a lot of hp for a short amount of time. Fit them if you like that sort of thing. If you want more of a stand-and-deliver sort of gameplay, make some suggestions towards fixing the Madrugar. In general however I strongly support helping large shield boosters be more common. This will increase fitting variety and help gameplay, as active modules are just more interesting than passive ones.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2267	Posted - 2015.03.03 12:10:00 - [3] - Quote I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never ever see a tank with 'half' hp. You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second. I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again). I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5151	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:20:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never ever see a tank with 'half' hp. You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second. I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again). I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card. Trust me I totally agree. I would much prefer a higher HP, lower regen system than we currently have with active modules for those very rough times. I suppose at the very least with this idea I was trying to do SOMETHING to bring a more active element to the current tanking with minimal effort on CCP's part....but yes I totally agree with you. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1813	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:24:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never ever see a tank with 'half' hp. You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second. I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again). I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card. Trust me I totally agree. I would much prefer a higher HP, lower regen system than we currently have with active modules for those very rough times. I suppose at the very least with this idea I was trying to do SOMETHING to bring a more active element to the current tanking with minimal effort on CCP's part....but yes I totally agree with you. I disagree with both of you , land craft have the biggest deterrent of vehicles in-game and air craft don't have to deal with half the things that LAV's and HAV's deal with . Most vehicle users complain that their vehicles are not viable because the fact that more people use AV now a days . I have PLC , Swarms and AV Grenades and can kill a tank with ease and all while not using a Min Commando or a Sentinel . Now I just don't think that you can punish the smart drivers by trying to kill the current structure and to be honest , HAV's need better survivability and this is coming from a AV user . Bad drivers die and good ones survive and their SP's are just as important then those who dedicate themselves to AV and with the upcoming instalment one can only wait to see but that in it's self will garner more buff posts from AV users because they will find it harder to kill them and that's fine with me because their upper tier , people complain about heavies ... see them , kill them and used them . There not that hard to kill but they should be because that's suppose to be their role and frankly scouts are harder to kill . People complain about HAV's but they should not be solo'd , people get mad when they can't ... I can murder them and do so I guess it goes with the skill set like most roles in game , these next tier should be harder but people will push to nerf them or buff AV which will make the lesser tiered less desirable which the dedicated won't use to much anyway . I guess I would like every role to be viable and things to have a attack and counter attack effect but I find a lot of people that just do not care about balance but would like their style favored and that just need to stop . You don't see many HAV users because of threads like this one where their singled out and bashed and to me that's a shame . You can't shame someone to not play the role they desired just because you can't best them but it happens on a daily . HAVs are bland and underpowered , people cry spam and complain about whatever they can't kill or have a hard time doing so . If that's your liking then you should play BF or COD because Dust 514 isn't a easy kill and that's what keep a lot of players playing this game instead of instagank secessions from most on the market . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5155	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:30:00 - [6] - Quote Wow good for you for acting like an ass for no good reason. The reason I would prefer the higher HP, lower regen is because its frustrating for AV users when a tank runs away and comes back at full health 30 seconds later. Additionally as a tank pilot I dont like feeling like I pretty much have to run once I start taking AV damage, because I'm more reliant on reps than I am on a more sizable buffer. I think a model like that would make it more enjoyable for both me an a pilot as well as an AV user. This thread was asking for a freaking buff to Shield Boosters and you come flying in complaining like I just killed your dog. Like seriously, did you even read what I said? At all? I'm literally saying "MAKE THIS ELEMENT OF VEHICLES BETTER!" and you reach the conclusion that I'm some AV nut that's trying to nerf them? Are you even in the right thread? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7471	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:36:00 - [7] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never ever see a tank with 'half' hp. You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second. I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again). I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card. Trust me I totally agree. I would much prefer a higher HP, lower regen system than we currently have with active modules for those very rough times. I suppose at the very least with this idea I was trying to do SOMETHING to bring a more active element to the current tanking with minimal effort on CCP's part....but yes I totally agree with you. I disagree with both of you , land craft have the biggest deterrent of vehicles in-game and air craft don't have to deal with half the things that LAV's and HAV's deal with . Most vehicle users complain that their vehicles are not viable because the fact that more people use AV now a days . I have PLC , Swarms and AV Grenades and can kill a tank with ease and all while not using a Min Commando or a Sentinel . Now I just don't think that you can punish the smart drivers by trying to kill the current structure and to be honest , HAV's need better survivability and this is coming from a AV user . Bad drivers die and good ones survive and their SP's are just as important then those who dedicate themselves to AV and with the upcoming instalment one can only wait to see but that in it's self will garner more buff posts from AV users because they will find it harder to kill them and that's fine with me because their upper tier , people complain about heavies ... see them , kill them and used them . There not that hard to kill but they should be because that's suppose to be their role and frankly scouts are harder to kill . People complain about HAV's but they should not be solo'd , people get mad when they can't ... I can murder them and do so I guess it goes with the skill set like most roles in game , these next tier should be harder but people will push to nerf them or buff AV which will make the lesser tiered less desirable which the dedicated won't use to much anyway . I guess I would like every role to be viable and things to have a attack and counter attack effect but I find a lot of people that just do not care about balance but would like their style favored and that just need to stop . You don't see many HAV users because of threads like this one where their singled out and bashed and to me that's a shame . You can't shame someone to not play the role they desired just because you can't best them but it happens on a daily . HAVs are bland and underpowered , people cry spam and complain about whatever they can't kill or have a hard time doing so . If that's your liking then you should play BF or COD because Dust 514 isn't a easy kill and that's what keep a lot of players playing this game instead of instagank secessions from most on the market . this post is textbook badposting. it has no relevance to any of the topics at hand. AV
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17434	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:48:00 - [8] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I have large frustrations with vehicles currently, and it has a lot to do with the fact that you never ever see a tank with 'half' hp. You either see a tank that's alive and fine, or a tank that is probably about to be dead in the next half second. I feel that the current repair styles promote pilot 'laziness' or playstyles that can only be described as incredibly risk averse (oh no I got shot once, time to drive back to my red line and wait for all of my cooldowns to come back up so I can feel 'safe' poking my tank 10 meters out of it again). I'm all in favor of much slower passive reps on both shield and armor (to the tune of say, 80-100s to rep up passively, but with a decent pool of hp so one was unlikely to feel immediately at threat of death unless their hp was full) so that pilots had to gauge situations and leave the field somewhat pre-emptively. This would of course also mean that tanks would have to be slightly slower so that someone who 'overestimated it' might be able to hit their hardeners and stuff but wouldn't have an immediate get out of jail free card. This is how I often feel. As a dedicated tanker there is no middle ground for me. I am either at full HP doing strafing runs or I am retreating with low HP to preserve the tank. Unlike, as you know, EVE styled mechanics I am not actually tanking anything, not repping through it, or trying to manage my modules in any real manner like I used to have to because the only duration based module I have to care about is the Hardener. I certainly don't want to see passive rep modules anywhere in Dust vehicle combat. I'd rather be looking at powerful active rep modules in a similar manner to what we once had so that if I want to have meaningful vehicle repairs I have to fit my tank for it, use it actively and careful, and not rely on my hull to carry me without any of my own imputs. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3091	Posted - 2015.03.03 22:33:00 - [9] - Quote Shields are meant to be burst tankers, meaning that they have a lot of hp and a lot of reps for a very short time. Boosters are fine as is for this purpose, though I maintain that there is still a glitch where the booster does nothing if taking more damage than the regen threshold. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 22:53:00 - [10] - Quote Fix boosters so they repair 500 per second over 5 seconds. Keep downtime the same, or like you said, the tank will have full hp every 30 seconds. The fittings need to be vastly reduced.. extenders make much more sense to fit.

Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 22:56:00 - [11] - Quote As far as I know the new hulls all get passive armor reps.. are you adding these passive reps to the armor tanks reps per second with one module?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5157	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:08:00 - [12] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: As far as I know the new hulls all get passive armor reps.. are you adding these passive reps to the armor tanks reps per second with one module? yes. Complex Armor Repper after skills is 137.5 HP/s, Madrugar has base 30 for a total of 167.5HP/s And if we can get a proper 5 second booster like we USED to, I'd prefer that over this. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17440	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:10:00 - [13] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Shields are meant to be burst tankers, meaning that they have a lot of hp and a lot of reps for a very short time. Boosters are fine as is for this purpose, though I maintain that there is still a glitch where the booster does nothing if taking more damage than the regen threshold. In some respects I can agree in others I'd like to see them changed. You could still achieve burst tanking but having shield booster operate for a lesser duration than armour repairers with more repairs per pulse and buy longer pulse cycles. E.g- A Shield Booster cycles three times over twelve seconds [once every four seconds] for 650 shield. An Armour Repairer cycles five times over fifteen seconds [once every three seconds] 430 armour. Shield is still burst repairing and armour still repairing over a duration with the armour comparatively repairing more over the total duration. [1950 shields vs 2150 armour over the course of 12-15 seconds] Shield Regenerated per second = 162.5 which is pretty fair consider that is in addition to a much smaller passive regneration (as I've been suggesting for god only knows how long) Armour regenerated per second = 143.33 again pretty fair considering armour regenerates more raw HP but does not (or should not ideally) have native repairs. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 375	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:15:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: As far as I know the new hulls all get passive armor reps.. are you adding these passive reps to the armor tanks reps per second with one module? yes. Complex Armor Repper after skills is 137.5 HP/s, Madrugar has base 30 for a total of 167.5HP/s And if we can get a proper 5 second booster like we USED to, I'd prefer that over this. Yeah both classes should have active reps.. shield= higher for shorter duration armor = lower for longer durarion
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7476	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:26:00 - [15] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: As far as I know the new hulls all get passive armor reps.. are you adding these passive reps to the armor tanks reps per second with one module? yes. Complex Armor Repper after skills is 137.5 HP/s, Madrugar has base 30 for a total of 167.5HP/s And if we can get a proper 5 second booster like we USED to, I'd prefer that over this. Pretty much. Yeah both classes should have active reps.. shield= higher for shorter duration armor = lower for longer durarion AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5157	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:51:00 - [16] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: As far as I know the new hulls all get passive armor reps.. are you adding these passive reps to the armor tanks reps per second with one module? yes. Complex Armor Repper after skills is 137.5 HP/s, Madrugar has base 30 for a total of 167.5HP/s And if we can get a proper 5 second booster like we USED to, I'd prefer that over this. Yeah both classes should have active reps.. shield= higher for shorter duration armor = lower for longer durarion Yep that would be ideal, assuming Rattati isn't married to the idea of maintaining the same sort of passive reps we have now. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page