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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17436
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Posted - 2015.03.03 22:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Big miku wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:what I want is irrelevant.
the weapons do not actually succeed at DOING the function they are DESCRIBED as HAVING.
they do something entirely different from the fluff. they do not perform their stated mission in said fluff very well at all. So you're saying tha Mass Driver is not good at Area Denial and the HMG is not good at man murder? Because they are. oh for... DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ??? Start here.
I'M READING!
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17436
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Posted - 2015.03.03 22:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Big miku wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:laser rifles are area denial.
Mass drivers and PLCs are breach tools. they suck at suppressing enemies. You seem to misunderstand what Are denial Weapons are. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_denial_weapon You also need to reread the Mass Driver Weapon description. You want the Heavy, to be shoe horned into a role you think it is meant to be. You should also reread the Sentinel description.
Neither do you apparently or you'd know the Laser Rifle can and have done since Chromosome lock down entire sections of certain maps and kill anything that moves through it.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17442
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Posted - 2015.03.04 01:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:So I have a serious question, and this is not intended to come off in a snide tone.
But in over six months, there have been no less than five serious, well thought threads on addressing HMG dominance in CQC. There has not been a single dev response, nor any indication that these threads have even been reviewed.
In fact there has never been a non-trolling dev response in any similar thread in two years that I have read.
Why?
Further, Sentinels/heavies have been proven more problematic than worthwhile in a balance perspective, so the answer has been "make them even MORE CQC. More of the same thing that has never worked should work now, right?"
Why are Heavies not being repurposed to dedicated AV and area denial?
Area denial is not room by room brawling. Area denial is what you post at the door/gate to keep people OUT of the rooms in the first place.
Sentinel suit's advantages and disatvantages are TEXTBOOK examples of open-ground, area suppression parameters. But they are being crammed into close quarters.
Why?
The only answer anyone has EVER provided is "heavies are cqc." This is a non-answer that holds as much validity as when I say "because :reasons:"
There is no vision for the heavy suit. They were originally billed as the go-to suits for AV and area denial. What we have is a CQC brawler that performs poorly in an AV capacity compared to lighter, more agile AV options (swarms).
So instead of doing more of the same thing, why do we not separate the role of the heavy, which should be a support platform that assists an assault squad, from the assault, which should be the go-to suit for attacking in CQC?
A question I also want answered. Historically and at the same time logically you don't create a heavily armoured unit with massive ordinance and force it into confined conditions.
Units like this typically excel as Breaking has said in open field positions, or in defensible position in overwatch.
An overwatching unit is one that has taken a position where it can clearly see the terrain ahead and around it to provide clear lines of fire.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17447
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Posted - 2015.03.04 03:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Big miku wrote:True Adamance wrote:A question I also want answered. Historically and at the same time logically you don't create a heavily armoured unit with massive ordinance and force it into confined conditions.
Units like this typically excel as Breaking has said in open field positions, or in defensible position in overwatch. Actually Historically speaking Heavy Armored Soldiers Trump Lightly armored Soldiers in CQC, but lighter armored people can skirmish harder. Heavy Personal Armor came about due to close quarters combat after all.
I'm thinking more modern military....y'know guns and the like. You don't put massive fire power in the hands of a slow moving unit then force said unit into urban warfare.
What you did do was put that unit in the best available cover and have them rake enemy advances with gunfire. Machine-guns are most effective in areas where there is little or no cover for an enemy force to exploit whereas smaller and more compact weapons are useful in urban combat zones.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17449
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Posted - 2015.03.04 04:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Big miku wrote:True Adamance wrote:I'm thinking more modern military....y'know guns and the like. You don't put massive fire power in the hands of a slow moving unit then force said unit into urban warfare.
What you did do was put that unit in the best available cover and have them rake enemy advances with gunfire. Machine-guns are most effective in areas where there is little or no cover for an enemy force to exploit whereas smaller and more compact weapons are useful in urban combat zones. That is what we did, During Vitamin the US would use M48s and M60s in urban environments, these tanks were small compared to the MBT of today but we would trounce them in hot urban environments with infantry support to provide Firepower and wall busting to take out entrenched snipers and machine guns nest. You telling me if we had a man sized heavily armored suit of Powered Armour armed with a LMG we'd not use it for Urban Fighting in buildings and out of? A Man Sized Tank that can move faster than normal men while holding normal weaponry would not be used for breach and clear? The US Navy and Marines think otherwise. Whoops not the M60 but the M103, I can't recall if any M60s were fielded in Vietnam other than bridgers and recavs.
It comes down to the simple ideal that when you put a great deal of armour plating and a powerful large calibre weapon on a frame that frame slows down.
Knight's invading castles would find it difficult to fight adequately in narrow corridors.
Calvary would suffer when funnelled into streets to be surrounded by more agile infantry.
Tanks suffer in urban environments as well vulnerable when unable to turn its main gun on enemies, from alley ways, from above.
I'd suggest that it's equally likely when you stack very dense armour plating (25mm thickness) and an under slung machine gun that functions in the manner it does, with the design that it has mobility would be impaired especially when entering into tight urban environments.
Consequently the benefit of that lessened mobility is that you gain that protection and capacity to carry more potent weaponry.
Also to note of the M103 bears many hall mark traits of an open country tank.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17461
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Posted - 2015.03.04 21:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:IMHO, I think the focus on the HMG rebalance needs to be its range. I think any PC player (or any seasoned vet) understands that if you run at a heavy full-frontal, you will lose. However, on numerous occasions I have have placed myself at reasonable distance and still I have been shredded down. The HMG's reach is just too much for the sockets we're playing in.
As for the Heavies role, I am pretty sure it has been established that they're PtD (Point Defence).
I've heard that too. However point defence does not infer a close quarters focus. Would not it simply make more sense to defend the point and prevent anyone getting to it as opposed to shooing them off it once they are already in there.
A Machine-gun as compared to a rifle is an unwieldy thing. Typically have longer barrels, heavier magazines and rounds (of larger calibre) and difficult to control recoil which is why you might typically see them with bipod attachments or mounted on vehicles.
More importantly the rounds can be fired as far if not further than those of a standard rifle. Strikes me that a better defined role for a sentinel would be one in which they can leverage their superior RoF and range to keep enemies away from the point they are defending or supporting at long range faster moving allies attacking another another point but suffer in close quarters where faster suits can strafe passed them.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17461
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Posted - 2015.03.04 22:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Big miku wrote:Dust 514 is a Class Based shooter with all 4 of the Traditional Classes with some mix and matching, the reason the Sentinel is a High Damage Bullet Sponges is because that is what the Role is traditionally, High DPS, High Health, Slow mover. Class Based Shooter Concept RundownIt is just a design choice on CCPs.
"Heavy Infantry
Focuses on heavy weapons such as the light-machine gun to defend objectives from a distance. Slower than the light infantry class, but compensates for higher range and firepower."
Taken from the article.....
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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