Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2990
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 16:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:You know why this is happening right?
When Tanks actually worked on the field : AV maniacs demand more damage, because tanks could actually get kills.
Now that Tanks don't work on the field: AV maniacs demand the tanks be forced from the redline because they want to blow them up, calling them lazy and cowardly.
When tanks didn't appear on the field at all: AV maniacs cried that there was nothing to shoot, since they've specialized in AV.
The above is just historical tidbits. The crazed AV users can be relied upon again and again to just whine out their ass stating "OP" whenever they see a tank getting more than 5 kills in a match, but they will ignore any dropsuit that can get 20+ kills a match.
There are very few decent AV players who know balance. All of them happen to also drive Tanks or Dropships. :/
You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be? But it's just fine when infantry go 30-2, right?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2990
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 16:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Not sure why you're surprised, it's common knowledge that most Pilots aren't that good anyways. Says the guy that thinks because he has SP in vehicles, that makes him a competent pilot. Says the guy who with nearly all his SP in vehicles, is still not a competent pilot. I have over 77mil SP. More than half of it is in infantry, because there isn't any variety in vehicles. Why are you assuming I'm a bad pilot?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Mary Sedillo
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
397
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 18:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lupus Wolf wrote:Not even joking. Three Sicas with Particle Accelerators and damage mods sitting at different spots in the back of the redline. Whenever I got close and attacked one, the other two came over and they all fired at me. When I backed off, they all went back to their campy campy spots.
Are you being serious right now? You give the rest of us vehicle users a bad name (not just tankers, because when people see this, they hate vehicles in general). If the redline and those mountains weren't there, they'd be toast. Can't this be fixed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it won't. Lots of things need fixing. Chop chop, CCP!
Maybe AV was keeping them back there. Its all about rethinking the problem as well. Did you have AV in your squad? Did you bring other tankers?
Shouldn't fault them if they were playing defensively.
I roam all the time out of the line, engaging infantry, but won't put my ass on the line if the blueberries are not, and if their is epic AV or I am outnumber tank wise, I chill in a safe place. |
Mary Sedillo
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
398
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 18:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:IMO, there should be a friendly redline timer that's set at 1 min when you spawn in redline, and 20 seconds if you are re-entering it.
No. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1788
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 20:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lupus Wolf wrote:Not even joking. Three Sicas with Particle Accelerators and damage mods sitting at different spots in the back of the redline. Whenever I got close and attacked one, the other two came over and they all fired at me. When I backed off, they all went back to their campy campy spots.
Are you being serious right now? You give the rest of us vehicle users a bad name (not just tankers, because when people see this, they hate vehicles in general). If the redline and those mountains weren't there, they'd be toast. Can't this be fixed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it won't. Lots of things need fixing. Chop chop, CCP!
The lack of depth between opposing redlines causes this.
To fix, make the map not wide but deep enough so that from you own redline you can not affect the objective.
The answer
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17242
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 20:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Not sure why you're surprised, it's common knowledge that most Pilots aren't that good anyways. Says the guy that thinks because he has SP in vehicles, that makes him a competent pilot. Says the guy who with nearly all his SP in vehicles, is still not a competent pilot. I have over 77mil SP. More than half of it is in infantry, because there isn't any variety in vehicles. Why are you assuming I'm a bad pilot?
Oh...... this is beautiful.
Two bitter rivals arguing over the sematics of what is and isn't good/relevant/skilled. Neither is right, or even has a point for that matter, even after all this time and the build up of tears from either side.
Well done gentlemen. You have made many people's days with the continued bitching and asshattery.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
|
CLONE117
True Pros Forever
892
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:You know why this is happening right?
When Tanks actually worked on the field : AV maniacs demand more damage, because tanks could actually get kills.
Now that Tanks don't work on the field: AV maniacs demand the tanks be forced from the redline because they want to blow them up, calling them lazy and cowardly.
When tanks didn't appear on the field at all: AV maniacs cried that there was nothing to shoot, since they've specialized in AV.
The above is just historical tidbits. The crazed AV users can be relied upon again and again to just whine out their ass stating "OP" whenever they see a tank getting more than 5 kills in a match, but they will ignore any dropsuit that can get 20+ kills a match.
There are very few decent AV players who know balance. All of them happen to also drive Tanks or Dropships. :/
You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be?
oh look! a large group of stupid clustered up red dots. im just going to fire in their general direction with my large blaster turret.
+50+50+50+50+50+50+50+50 ect.
if only we could pilot the mcc.
id end the matches real quick.
|
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:maybe we would not "camp" if the stupid ass swarms did not make us redlined. Therefor your ******* yourselves commandos with swarms. SO STOP WHINING YOU BIT#HES To armour, swarms on a minmando with proficiency 5 does a little over 2k. 2 hardeners will lower it by 46% so it goes down to around 1100 damage per volley, maybe a bit more. It barely hurts a gunnlogi with one hardener. If armour tanks had better fitting you could fit a good rep and have enough HP to drive off. Swarms aren't the problem for armour tanks. Its just the fact that they can't fit a decent defence. Both are the problem. We can't enough reps, a plate slows us down, and a hardener costs too much to fit. Swarms do far too ,uh damage for how ridiculously easy they are to use. I have them, and Minmando to 5. I recent wasted a Soma in 4 volleys. That's far too powerful. Swarms arent the problem, if AV is hurting your tank it is working properly. However due to the fact that 2/3s of all AV is armour based it causes a huge problem for armour based vehicles. This is exacerbated by the fact that fitting room on the maddy is terrible, you can't fit tank and rep well and the turn speed is so bad you might as well just use a gunnlogi for everything. Buff the amour vehicles and see how AV is then. Stop calling for a nerf just because it works. Also you know that minmando bonus only gives you 200 extra damage right? |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17243
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 22:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:You know why this is happening right?
When Tanks actually worked on the field : AV maniacs demand more damage, because tanks could actually get kills.
Now that Tanks don't work on the field: AV maniacs demand the tanks be forced from the redline because they want to blow them up, calling them lazy and cowardly.
When tanks didn't appear on the field at all: AV maniacs cried that there was nothing to shoot, since they've specialized in AV.
The above is just historical tidbits. The crazed AV users can be relied upon again and again to just whine out their ass stating "OP" whenever they see a tank getting more than 5 kills in a match, but they will ignore any dropsuit that can get 20+ kills a match.
There are very few decent AV players who know balance. All of them happen to also drive Tanks or Dropships. :/
You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be? oh look! a large group of stupid clustered up red dots. im just going to fire in their general direction with my large blaster turret. +50+50+50+50+50+50+50+50 ect. all of those tank kills could have easily been prevented. by finding some cover. its not that hard to avoid a tank. especially when all of those tank cannons have no splash damage. can you get pinned down by one? sure. but you can wait for some1 to organise some av and obliterate said tank. or let it get bored and see it move somewhere else.
Yes and no....
Yes in the sense that infantry do some pretty silly thing like not using cover or terrain to their advantage and would likely have been mown down for their mistakes....and no at the same time because we were essentially using really really powerful Assault Rifles while remaining invulnerable to small arms fire.
The latter was totally unfair and inappropriate for the main gun of an HAV.
Being pin point accurate was an issue that led to our current....worsened issue. This being that previously we could snipe out to say 200m or so.... this I actually had no problem with as a tank without the ability to apply damage out to meaningful range again enemies would could accurately and effectively engage from those distances was IMO balanced and fair.
However I do have to admit specific tanks like the Marauder and Enforcers (with high EHP or damage stats) pushed the paradigm to exploitable limits. Both tanks had damage bonus skills and when coupled with any number of damage modules of any sort (remember that old damage modules affected multiple stats including damage AND rate of fire) could theoretically have pushed damage out to in excess of 200 damage per round.
Consequently it could almost be considered fair due to ISK investment, SP investment, and sheer ire it drew on the field. Issue was back then AV was not so accessible and players not so proficient in it as they were then.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
|
Lupus Wolf
Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Lupus Wolf wrote:Not even joking. Three Sicas with Particle Accelerators and damage mods sitting at different spots in the back of the redline. Whenever I got close and attacked one, the other two came over and they all fired at me. When I backed off, they all went back to their campy campy spots.
Are you being serious right now? You give the rest of us vehicle users a bad name (not just tankers, because when people see this, they hate vehicles in general). If the redline and those mountains weren't there, they'd be toast. Can't this be fixed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it won't. Lots of things need fixing. Chop chop, CCP! Maybe AV was keeping them back there. Its all about rethinking the problem as well. Did you have AV in your squad? Did you bring other tankers? Shouldn't fault them if they were playing defensively. I roam all the time out of the line, engaging infantry, but won't put my ass on the line if the blueberries are not, and if their is epic AV or I am outnumber tank wise, I chill in a safe place. They stayed in the redline since the start of the match. Not because of AV, or because I was pushing them back, but because it was Ashland and the redline for that map is too close. The map's too small in general.
Redundant usernames FTW
Quafe, you lied to me...
30% Logi, 25% Tanker, 40% Dropship Pilot, 5% Drunk LAV Driver
|
|
Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
383
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lupus Wolf wrote:Not even joking. Three Sicas with Particle Accelerators and damage mods sitting at different spots in the back of the redline. Whenever I got close and attacked one, the other two came over and they all fired at me. When I backed off, they all went back to their campy campy spots.
Are you being serious right now? You give the rest of us vehicle users a bad name (not just tankers, because when people see this, they hate vehicles in general). If the redline and those mountains weren't there, they'd be toast. Can't this be fixed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it won't. Lots of things need fixing. Chop chop, CCP!
With 4 they could have just pushed the line up, inch by inch if need be. You'd better hope they don't learn that. They could have a couple blasters in back to rotate reps with. They could murder and focus on av while they tank damage. It's sad that it takes two blasters to kill a swarmer. Who cares if you lose some somas?
Then you will truly hate vehicles. You know you will run out of ammo. Who's going to keep you and the logis alive against ten guys with armor support. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1105
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 03:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be?
So, how long ago was this? Never recall seeing such a thing. I've been here about... 3? years now, and I've never had a time where I couldn't destroy a tank with an AV suit.
I remember there was a time when tanks had moderate defense, but no one really had Proto AV yet. Lots of people were complaining about tanks because NOBODY would try to fight the tanks. I had basic Swarms and had no problems (that's right, not even ADV rank). After that time happened, the tanks were swapped out and given the current name sets we use here. The developers knew what kind of thing they were doing, because this psychological renaming trickery worked, and worked well.
It's basically like a toddler looking up at a teenager and thinking how "op" the teenager seems, but then later after they've grown up, they keep expressing fears of that person relative to their toddler years, even though they've gone off to an office job and the "op" individual is still working at a gas station...
It's the same things with tanks, that I've seen quite often here. People were unprepared, there were hardly anyone with AV skill sets back then. Of course there were all kinds of exaggerations that they would pull from this "legacy" era. Now, there are a lot more people with skills in AV, that a tank can be downed within 5 minutes of it being spotted on the field.
Back then, you had to plan an attack on a tank. Get it when it rounded a certain corner etc, and you could solo them. Now.... well you can solo one by standing in the middle of a field and spamming your attack, while running straight at them, and this is known to have a reasonable chance of destroying them.
Thinking back... the only time that tanks were absurd was when triple rep systems were clearly in need of reduction. In that instance, I could not kill a tank with my own AV setup (well, aside from remotes, but I mean handhelds like swarm and forge).
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
|
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2514
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 12:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:You know why this is happening right?
When Tanks actually worked on the field : AV maniacs demand more damage, because tanks could actually get kills.
Now that Tanks don't work on the field: AV maniacs demand the tanks be forced from the redline because they want to blow them up, calling them lazy and cowardly.
When tanks didn't appear on the field at all: AV maniacs cried that there was nothing to shoot, since they've specialized in AV.
The above is just historical tidbits. The crazed AV users can be relied upon again and again to just whine out their ass stating "OP" whenever they see a tank getting more than 5 kills in a match, but they will ignore any dropsuit that can get 20+ kills a match.
There are very few decent AV players who know balance. All of them happen to also drive Tanks or Dropships. :/
You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be? But it's just fine when infantry go 30-2, right? Absolutely fine because they're killing other infantry, who have equal opportunity to kill them.
But thanks for the red herring, i'll trade it to Cat Merc for a favor. Would you like to try again and sling your next cheap rhetorical device at me?
PSN: RationalSpark
|
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2514
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 12:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Vrain Matari wrote: You left out one little piece of history: tanks were going 30/0 every freakin' match. Or maybe you just assume that's the way things should be?
So, how long ago was this? Never recall seeing such a thing. I've been here about... 3? years now, and I've never had a time where I couldn't destroy a tank with an AV suit. I remember there was a time when tanks had moderate defense, but no one really had Proto AV yet. Lots of people were complaining about tanks because NOBODY would try to fight the tanks. I had basic Swarms and had no problems (that's right, not even ADV rank). After that time happened, the tanks were swapped out and given the current name sets we use here. The developers knew what kind of thing they were doing, because this psychological renaming trickery worked, and worked well. It's basically like a toddler looking up at a teenager and thinking how "op" the teenager seems, but then later after they've grown up, they keep expressing fears of that person relative to their toddler years, even though they've gone off to an office job and the "op" individual is still working at a gas station... It's the same things with tanks, that I've seen quite often here. People were unprepared, there were hardly anyone with AV skill sets back then. Of course there were all kinds of exaggerations that they would pull from this "legacy" era. Now, there are a lot more people with skills in AV, that a tank can be downed within 5 minutes of it being spotted on the field. Back then, you had to plan an attack on a tank. Get it when it rounded a certain corner etc, and you could solo them. Now.... well you can solo one by standing in the middle of a field and spamming your attack, while running straight at them, and this is known to have a reasonable chance of destroying them. Thinking back... the only time that tanks were absurd was when triple rep systems were clearly in need of reduction. In that instance, I could not kill a tank with my own AV setup (well, aside from remotes, but I mean handhelds like swarm and forge). Calling BS. Not even going to bother, tbh. There's enough vets around who remember what tanks were, and enough vets who have been running proto AV since closed beta.
PSN: RationalSpark
|
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2514
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 12:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
We'll go round and round on this issue until Rat gives AV infantry tools to address the right variables: the dynamic waves-of-opportunity variables. That means ways to affect vehicle velocity, acceleration, regen cycles, regen amount, regen time.
If peeps want stronger tanks that won't destroy the game then infantry needs the tools to deal with them. More DPS/more EHP is an almost pointless argument at this point. Establish an infantry toolset to address the dynamic vehicle/AV model we have and then make the vehicles as strong as they should be.
My candidates for the right way to do this is web grenades and some kind of aimed DOT light/heavy weapons.
Failing that, prepare for another few hundred vehicle/AV threads where we pointlessly chase our DPS/EHP tails, barking out the same tired arguments again and again.
PSN: RationalSpark
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |