DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] HAV and SHAV Progression

CCP Rattati wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Doc DDD wrote:

Thank you for the Eve lesson, but it really shows how different the games operate. Short of both games having 'shields and armor' we should really work on making what we have now fair on both sides.

ie, armor always has the advantage of a shield buffer, if shields tanks get down to its armor buffer it's game over with these new numbers.

Well let me lay out a general sense of what I would like to see overall given some of the design points Rattati has laid out

Shields Recharge Slowly, but naturally with recharge delay
Armor Recharge even slower (not a huge fan of this but Rattati seems set on on it)
Shield Recharge on Armor HAVs should be equally as low as armor repair on Shield HAVs
Shield Boosters Boost for 5 seconds, High HP/s (Primary means of HP regeneration for most fits)
Armor Repairers Repair for 15 seconds, Moderate HP/s (Primary means of HP regeneration for most fits)
Shield Hardeners 40%, slightly better duration/cooldown than current
Armor Hardeners 30%, same duration/cooldown as current
Shield Rechargers, increase Natural shield recharge (High Slot)
Shield Regulators, decrease shield recharge delay (Low Slot)
Stable Armor Repairer, Low armor HP/s, constant recharge

EDIT: And honestly the point I was trying to get across is that many elements pre 1.7 behaved more like EVE than they do now, a time in Dust's history that many vehicle pilots often references as being a better system.

This is basically it as you describe.

Active = High volume
Passive = Low volume

players should be progressing towards active as it rewards skill, but passive is easier to cope with as a new pilot.

Shouldn't be forced to fit armor reps to be able to recuperate, so native reps, very low.

An offensive action, should be countered with another action (hardening, boosting, active repping) and that in turn should be countered by maneuevering into the back (fuel injector or weak spot), or active dmg modding.

This is both directed towards rattati and Pokey, where do the Assault dropships fit into this? Are they going to have the same modifications as tanks, in regards to shield/armor reps?

Could we see dropships being given the same treatment as tanks? the ADS is listed as advanced, perhaps we can have pro dropships as well with an slightly improved slot layout? Perhaps 5-1 version of the Python and a 2-3 version of the incubus
3-2 Minmatar and a 1-5 Amarr? Paint over the skins, use the tank fitting template downgraded for dropships?

On shields: Pythons that don't use a shield booster rely on high regen to get them back into the action.

Incubi could use high burst regen sure, yet after giving it some though i'm not sure that only a 5% increase to armor hardeners may be suffecient. Moslty because minandos have 10+ prof 5 15% damage bonus before damage mods, I have some doubts that a 5% damage resistance really going to be enough as a defensive measure. I know its not meant to completley nullify incoming damage, but since fitting a hardener means droping hp, its a question of can i tank shots better with a brick or better with a hardener? Can that 5% make hardners a better fitting option? Or will the 30% + Active high regen make incubus balanced?

If making a HAV progression works, and it seems it's working overall, even with some slight issues that can be fixed, nothing is stopping us from doing more later. ADS's need to be able to kill these new ADV and PRO MBT's, so keep chiming in with what's necessary.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15788	Posted - 2015.02.17 19:56:00 - [1] - Quote Please make sure blaster optimal isnt too great. They have excellent elevation and tracking so if the range is too high, the added damage could make them too efficient vs dropships that try to anything anywhere near the ground. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15789	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:19:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Exept the gunlogi got a rep nerf and the maddy a rep buff. Oh no! Now trending at #itsunfairthatamaddygetsbetterrepsbysacrificing25%ofitstankslots! It gets damage mods with high tank... sure. exclusively in knife fighting (for tanks) range. Hit and run isnt exactly hard though, and we're supposed to be getting HAVs specifically made for hit and run. Just saying, its not so black and white as "tanks never get close to each other" My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15789	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:28:00 - [3] - Quote I'll hold my excitement for when ALL vehicles receive this sort of treatment, and unfortunately not a second before. Overall it seeems a step in the right direction though. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15790	Posted - 2015.02.17 21:02:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Look at my horse/pony, my horse/pony is amazing~ 1/10 your sarcasm is obvious. Besides, my pony had a minigun harness, and is awesome beyond the boundaries of amazing. http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130202081345/falloutequestria/images/6/6a/War_Machine.png I raise you one Brotherhood of steel powered armor pony. Back to the other issue. Elevation on all HAVs needs to go. Needs to move to the turret base instead. Blasters should have the widest range until other rapid firing weapons make it in that are more suitable for AA work. Missiles and rails should have the slowest elevation gains and lowest limits as missiles as are mostly useless against air targets to begin with and rails are simply too powerful against most dropships in a manner most similar to a large rail vs any lav. Missiles are actually the most threatening AA in most cases, so long as the HAV knows when to strike. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15793	Posted - 2015.02.18 14:12:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Thank you for the Eve lesson, but it really shows how different the games operate. Short of both games having 'shields and armor' we should really work on making what we have now fair on both sides. ie, armor always has the advantage of a shield buffer, if shields tanks get down to its armor buffer it's game over with these new numbers. Well let me lay out a general sense of what I would like to see overall given some of the design points Rattati has laid out Shields Recharge Slowly, but naturally with recharge delay Armor Recharge even slower (not a huge fan of this but Rattati seems set on on it) Shield Recharge on Armor HAVs should be equally as low as armor repair on Shield HAVs Shield Boosters Boost for 5 seconds, High HP/s (Primary means of HP regeneration for most fits) Armor Repairers Repair for 15 seconds, Moderate HP/s (Primary means of HP regeneration for most fits) Shield Hardeners 40%, slightly better duration/cooldown than current Armor Hardeners 30%, same duration/cooldown as current Shield Rechargers, increase Natural shield recharge (High Slot) Shield Regulators, decrease shield recharge delay (Low Slot) Stable Armor Repairer, Low armor HP/s, constant recharge EDIT: And honestly the point I was trying to get across is that many elements pre 1.7 behaved more like EVE than they do now, a time in Dust's history that many vehicle pilots often references as being a better system. This is basically it as you describe. Active = High volume Passive = Low volume players should be progressing towards active as it rewards skill, but passive is easier to cope with as a new pilot. Shouldn't be forced to fit armor reps to be able to recuperate, so native reps, very low. An offensive action, should be countered with another action (hardening, boosting, active repping) and that in turn should be countered by maneuevering into the back (fuel injector or weak spot), or active dmg modding. This is both directed towards rattati and Pokey, where do the Assault dropships fit into this? Are they going to have the same modifications as tanks, in regards to shield/armor reps? Could we see dropships being given the same treatment as tanks? the ADS is listed as advanced, perhaps we can have pro dropships as well with an slightly improved slot layout? Perhaps 5-1 version of the Python and a 2-3 version of the incubus 3-2 Minmatar and a 1-5 Amarr? Paint over the skins, use the tank fitting template downgraded for dropships? On shields: Pythons that don't use a shield booster rely on high regen to get them back into the action. Incubi could use high burst regen sure, yet after giving it some though i'm not sure that only a 5% increase to armor hardeners may be suffecient. Moslty because minandos have 10+ prof 5 15% damage bonus before damage mods, I have some doubts that a 5% damage resistance really going to be enough as a defensive measure. I know its not meant to completley nullify incoming damage, but since fitting a hardener means droping hp, its a question of can i tank shots better with a brick or better with a hardener? Can that 5% make hardners a better fitting option? Or will the 30% + Active high regen make incubus balanced? If making a HAV progression works, and it seems it's working overall, even with some slight issues that can be fixed, nothing is stopping us from doing more later. ADS's need to be able to kill these new ADV and PRO MBT's, so keep chiming in with what's necessary. Sooo...does that mean you're buffing AV to handle tanks, effectively killing dropships, or leaving AV as is, effectively killing AV vs tanks? My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"