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Best way to balance the AR (and you're gonna hate it)

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Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8685	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:29:00 - [1] - Quote No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. For the AR only. Sounds profound doesn't it? Until you consider that it's a CQC weapon, where mobility matters a hell of a lot more than with weapons designed for longer ranges. You consider it's competition: The Shotgun which has high enough Alpha that it doesn't matter anyway, and the HMG which has a high enough DPS that it doesn't matter. So who really gets hurt by an Assault Rifle which does exactly what it did before everyone wigged out about it a few builds ago? The people it's designed to hurt: Anyone within Optimal Range. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5316	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:31:00 - [2] - Quote Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 919	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:35:00 - [3] - Quote No, wait yes that sounds like a good idea it'll finally give a good counter to people who exacerbate hit detection. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8685	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:37:00 - [4] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Nice feedback, want to explain your position? =P Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5316	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:47:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Nice feedback, want to explain your position? =P The slow down effect is like the time on beta LRs and dumb fire swarms, fun for awhile but just plain annoying. Trust me 1 week into it you'll have a backlash that rivals the Reformation Movement. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8685	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:52:00 - [6] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Nice feedback, want to explain your position? =P The slow down effect is like the time on beta LRs and dumb fire swarms, fun for awhile but just plain annoying. Trust me 1 week into it you'll have a backlash that rivals the Reformation Movement. How do you figure? Because then you'd actually be able to hit what you're aiming at when it's strafing back and forth faster than Usain Bolt? Legs clipping through one another? Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7451	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:53:00 - [7] - Quote That would be annoying for everyone involved. I'd rather have damage jacked up by 2x within 5m,1.5x within 5-10m and 1.2x within 10-15m. The AR should rule CQC with an iron fist. Maybe reduce range as well. Range on the AR is pretty poor already and most people only engage at that distance because of how mediocre the AR is in CQC. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6654	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:53:00 - [8] - Quote -1 If we're going to group the Shotgun together with the HMG and Assault Rifle, we'd better give it a 30m - 50m range. "CQC" LOL Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5320	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:59:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Nice feedback, want to explain your position? =P The slow down effect is like the time on beta LRs and dumb fire swarms, fun for awhile but just plain annoying. Trust me 1 week into it you'll have a backlash that rivals the Reformation Movement. How do you figure? Because then you'd actually be able to hit what you're aiming at when it's strafing back and forth faster than Usain Bolt? Legs clipping through one another? Aeon, there's a reason for everything & the reason for the B.S.D.E removal was because it provided an unfair advantage to automatic weapons. CCP added a strafe penalty to plates to calm the crowd so just because the meta shifted to ferro's and reactives doesn't mean your gun is broken. P.s. it's your suit bonus (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 629	Posted - 2015.02.13 05:00:00 - [10] - Quote dag i was thinking the ar was near perfect

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7451	Posted - 2015.02.13 05:03:00 - [11] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: P.s. it's your suit bonus The problem isn't the bonus. The problem is that the bonus works against you when you have a bad connection by making it harder to hit your target since you have to be more accurate to hit your target. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8686	Posted - 2015.02.13 05:19:00 - [12] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Nice feedback, want to explain your position? =P The slow down effect is like the time on beta LRs and dumb fire swarms, fun for awhile but just plain annoying. Trust me 1 week into it you'll have a backlash that rivals the Reformation Movement. How do you figure? Because then you'd actually be able to hit what you're aiming at when it's strafing back and forth faster than Usain Bolt? Legs clipping through one another? Aeon, there's a reason for everything & the reason for the B.S.D.E removal was because it provided an unfair advantage to automatic weapons. CCP added a strafe penalty to plates to calm the crowd so just because the meta shifted to ferro's and reactives doesn't mean your gun is broken. P.s. it's your suit bonus Lol, the hilarity in that statement. What would adding a strafe penalty to plates do, eh? The AR is designed against Shields, so if you're having trouble hitting armor plated targets you've probably got bigger issues than that. The B.S.D.E helped prevent hit detection exploitation and yes, it worked amazing for automatic weapons because -YOU CAN'T DODGE BULLETS-. I'm sorry, but you can't. The only reason speed tanking works in that sense is because you're just exploiting the shoddy hit detection not being able to account for the fact that they bullets would normally be hitting you. Removing the BSDE was a huge buff for anyone involved in CQC fighting and despite DeadlyAztec's stupid idea of what CQC is (seriously? What, you think that the AR is a long range weapon? It's got the same freaggin range as an HMG) it doesn't have the perks it needs to actually be competitive in a CQC fight. S'why everyone uses the ARR and ACR, you get roughly the same DPS with way better range capabilities. If you're going to miss, you might as well miss with a weapon that doesn't do shite damage at 70m. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2386	Posted - 2015.02.13 07:03:00 - [13] - Quote What makes you think the AR needs another buff? Not easy mode enough for you yet Aeon? They are already the easiest to use rifles in this entire game, and you want them to slow down your enemies so you can hit them better? Get real. The AR is fine. Go cry somewhere else. Home at Last <3
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8697	Posted - 2015.02.13 07:09:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: What makes you think the AR needs another buff? Not easy mode enough for you yet Aeon? They are already the easiest to use rifles in this entire game, and you want them to slow down your enemies so you can hit them better? Get real. The AR is fine. Go cry somewhere else. Ah, Fizzer. Always commenting about how something is easy mode. Unless it's Amarr tech, then it's hardest stuff in the world to use and perpetually be the most underpowered weaponry in the game. Give me a real reason why it -shouldn't- slow down the target instead of this "hurrrr someone said somethin' I don't like, better cry about how they're crying". It's a CQC weapon. You going to sit here and tell me that things are not relatively (the physics term, in case you didn't know) faster based on proximity? Are you seriously going to try and convince me that it's harder to hit something 70m away as opposed to 10m away? That close quarters combat is "easy mode"? EDIT: You wanna troll, I'll troll too. Get on my level, don't start shooting until you're within 30m. THEN you can come in here and spout some BS about how things are easy mode. In fact, the next time I see you in battle, I'm going to record our fights and I do sincerely hope you use the AR just to prove - not just to me - to the entire community just how "easy mode" the AR really is. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7829	Posted - 2015.02.13 07:16:00 - [15] - Quote I am never a fan of "fixing" something broken by adding something broken. Its not a good template for balance. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2386	Posted - 2015.02.13 07:26:00 - [16] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: What makes you think the AR needs another buff? Not easy mode enough for you yet Aeon? They are already the easiest to use rifles in this entire game, and you want them to slow down your enemies so you can hit them better? Get real. The AR is fine. Go cry somewhere else. Ah, Fizzer. Always commenting about how something is easy mode. Unless it's Amarr tech, then it's hardest stuff in the world to use and perpetually be the most underpowered weaponry in the game. Give me a real reason why it -shouldn't- slow down the target instead of this "hurrrr someone said somethin' I don't like, better cry about how they're crying". It's a CQC weapon. You going to sit here and tell me that things are not relatively (the physics term, in case you didn't know) faster based on proximity? Are you seriously going to try and convince me that it's harder to hit something 70m away as opposed to 10m away? That close quarters combat is "easy mode"? EDIT: You wanna troll, I'll troll too. Get on my level, don't start shooting until you're within 30m. THEN you can come in here and spout some BS about how things are easy mode. In fact, the next time I see you in battle, I'm going to record our fights and I do sincerely hope you use the AR just to prove - not just to me - to the entire community just how "easy mode" the AR really is. If CQC wasn't easy mode, why does the majority of the community (and the majority of communities for that matter) tend to flock to CQC combat? Hipfire twitchy twitchy has always been the unskilled players domain, in most every game. CQC is easy mode, as it is in most shooters. Dust is no different in this regard. Home at Last <3
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 1232	Posted - 2015.02.13 08:38:00 - [17] - Quote While it is rather annoying to have someone strafe between my shots and watch them shield flash because the engine can't keep up.. I'm not sure slowdown is the answer. I don't have a backup answer but I'm on the fence as to how helpful this would be overall. Sorry to interrupt keep pissin. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8700	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:25:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: What makes you think the AR needs another buff? Not easy mode enough for you yet Aeon? They are already the easiest to use rifles in this entire game, and you want them to slow down your enemies so you can hit them better? Get real. The AR is fine. Go cry somewhere else. Ah, Fizzer. Always commenting about how something is easy mode. Unless it's Amarr tech, then it's hardest stuff in the world to use and perpetually be the most underpowered weaponry in the game. Give me a real reason why it -shouldn't- slow down the target instead of this "hurrrr someone said somethin' I don't like, better cry about how they're crying". It's a CQC weapon. You going to sit here and tell me that things are not relatively (the physics term, in case you didn't know) faster based on proximity? Are you seriously going to try and convince me that it's harder to hit something 70m away as opposed to 10m away? That close quarters combat is "easy mode"? EDIT: You wanna troll, I'll troll too. Get on my level, don't start shooting until you're within 30m. THEN you can come in here and spout some BS about how things are easy mode. In fact, the next time I see you in battle, I'm going to record our fights and I do sincerely hope you use the AR just to prove - not just to me - to the entire community just how "easy mode" the AR really is. If CQC wasn't easy mode, why does the majority of the community (and the majority of communities for that matter) tend to flock to CQC combat? Hipfire twitchy twitchy has always been the unskilled players domain, in most every game. CQC is easy mode, as it is in most shooters. Dust is no different in this regard. And yet, you seem averse to actually showing us just how easy mode it is despite the fact you keep saying it. I've already offered to video you showing us all just how easy it is. Another thing, why not answer my question? Why -not- have a slow down effect? You keep deflecting and saying it's easy mode but you don't actually give any justifiable reason why. In fact, no-one in this thread has, it's just the same "herp derp broken mechanic is broken". That's not feedback, it's just you disagreeing because... I dunno. You don't like the prospect of losing to an AR? Reign Omega wrote: While it is rather annoying to have someone strafe between my shots and watch them shield flash because the engine can't keep up.. I'm not sure slowdown is the answer. I don't have a backup answer but I'm on the fence as to how helpful this would be overall. Sorry to interrupt keep pissin. Thing is, we had it a while back. Everyone talked about how awesome Chromosome was but they fail to mention two very important things: 1) It was before movement speed/strafe speed was dramatically increased because of a bug that everyone liked. The community loved that bug so much, that it became "by design". Prior to Uprising 1.5, everyone moved a lot slower and generally armor tankers lamented at this fact. Talk to Arkena Wyrnspire, he's one player I know for a fact remembers this because he had a crusade going for armor balance at the time. 2) We had the slow down effect for a good long while. I think it was removed in Uprising 1.8 because everyone was complaining about the Sprint Bug (which was a largely separate issue). Once that got removed, CQC changed. A lot. To say that it would "break everything" now is contrary to what made the game functional prior. As stated previously, there is no justifiable reason given in "because it will break stuff", "git gud", and "CQC is easy mode". Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1897	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:37:00 - [19] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: That would be annoying for everyone involved. I'd rather have damage jacked up by 2x within 5m,1.5x within 5-10m and 1.2x within 10-15m. The AR should rule CQC with an iron fist. Maybe reduce range as well. Range on the AR is pretty poor already and most people only engage at that distance because of how mediocre the AR is in CQC. :V Someone give DeadlyAztec a Blue Tag. Cheese-and-rice, this is a good idea. CRs shouldn't be better than ARs in CQC. It's a burst weapon. Not that burst weapons should suck in CQC, just that AUTOMATIC WEAPONS SHOULD RULE CQC. Minmatar's already have the best speed which'll allow them to escape from the range of fire as fast as they got into it. This is proper. Let this happen and ARs will be back to gold instead of the crappy bronze they are. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1897	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:39:00 - [20] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: What makes you think the AR needs another buff? Not easy mode enough for you yet Aeon? They are already the easiest to use rifles in this entire game, and you want them to slow down your enemies so you can hit them better? Get real. The AR is fine. Go cry somewhere else. Ah, Fizzer. Always commenting about how something is easy mode. Unless it's Amarr tech, then it's hardest stuff in the world to use and perpetually be the most underpowered weaponry in the game. Give me a real reason why it -shouldn't- slow down the target instead of this "hurrrr someone said somethin' I don't like, better cry about how they're crying". It's a CQC weapon. You going to sit here and tell me that things are not relatively (the physics term, in case you didn't know) faster based on proximity? Are you seriously going to try and convince me that it's harder to hit something 70m away as opposed to 10m away? That close quarters combat is "easy mode"? EDIT: You wanna troll, I'll troll too. Get on my level, don't start shooting until you're within 30m. THEN you can come in here and spout some BS about how things are easy mode. In fact, the next time I see you in battle, I'm going to record our fights and I do sincerely hope you use the AR just to prove - not just to me - to the entire community just how "easy mode" the AR really is. If CQC wasn't easy mode, why does the majority of the community (and the majority of communities for that matter) tend to flock to CQC combat? Hipfire twitchy twitchy has always been the unskilled players domain, in most every game. CQC is easy mode, as it is in most shooters. Dust is no different in this regard. Butts in CQC isn't easy mode :/ People are just that type of stupid where they wanna run into their enemy with their bullets. I swear it's a habit built from games like CoD or BF. I work with ARs so CQC is my optimal range, but even then I prefer to shoot at a distance unless the kill is easy. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com

Michael Epic Bragian Order Amarr Empire 480	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:40:00 - [21] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: That would be annoying for everyone involved. I'd rather have damage jacked up by 2x within 5m,1.5x within 5-10m and 1.2x within 10-15m. The AR should rule CQC with an iron fist. Maybe reduce range as well. Range on the AR is pretty poor already and most people only engage at that distance because of how mediocre the AR is in CQC. Uprising 1.6 the AR DID rule CQC with an ion fist.... and then they invented Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle and the AR just sort of faded away and now its just a memory...I mean, I still use it but its a relic (just like me, combat logi lol)
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 67	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:50:00 - [22] - Quote AR needs a buff, maybe 5% more range. a RR kills you in any range... same Scramble Riffle.
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 77	Posted - 2015.02.13 16:45:00 - [23] - Quote [quote=Aeon Amadi]No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. When was this effect removed? I ask because I routinely find: A. On target doing damage, through shield and half his armor, he pivots starts shooting, I cease to do any damage but I'm still firing, still clearly on target. Then...Dead. (the only thing I find consistent when this happens is the weapon my foe is using is of higher class or alpha). More than once a game I lose battles on paper I should have won but lost to an "effect". B. I am engaged in a 1 v 1 dancing/strafing contest and find the first to get a consistent stream of damage wins. In other words as soon as my foe starts doing real damage my rate of movement is roughly half of what it was while we were dancing. The only way to potentially overcome this "effect" is with some dramatic movement on the sticks. Once broken, usually I am facing away from my foe and then get shot in the back. Dead. I have no way to judge if this "effect" is happening to others. I play in a squad most nights and have yet to hear them describe this problem. I understand damage from a foe would have an "effect" but I call BS on the idea that my ability to maintain a fair chance to return the favor (in the case of A) is somehow being removed by the mechanics of the game. I find the assault version of the rail and combat rifle tend to be the most consistent cause for this "effect". Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8709	Posted - 2015.02.13 21:50:00 - [24] - Quote Dragonmeballs wrote: [quote=Aeon Amadi]No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. When was this effect removed? I ask because I routinely find: A. On target doing damage, through shield and half his armor, he pivots starts shooting, I cease to do any damage but I'm still firing, still clearly on target. Then...Dead. (the only thing I find consistent when this happens is the weapon my foe is using is of higher class or alpha). More than once a game I lose battles on paper I should have won but lost to an "effect". B. I am engaged in a 1 v 1 dancing/strafing contest and find the first to get a consistent stream of damage wins. In other words as soon as my foe starts doing real damage my rate of movement is roughly half of what it was while we were dancing. The only way to potentially overcome this "effect" is with some dramatic movement on the sticks. Once broken, usually I am facing away from my foe and then get shot in the back. Dead. I have no way to judge if this "effect" is happening to others. I play in a squad most nights and have yet to hear them describe this problem. I understand damage from a foe would have an "effect" but I call BS on the idea that my ability to maintain a fair chance to return the favor (in the case of A) is somehow being removed by the mechanics of the game. I find the assault version of the rail and combat rifle tend to be the most consistent cause for this "effect". I'll go through my Skype logs. CCP Wolfman distinctly removed the slow-down effect a few builds ago despite my continual protests that it would just be a giant buff to movement speed, which is already CoD'd out. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 298	Posted - 2015.02.13 22:05:00 - [25] - Quote Ar is fine doesn't need a buff Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 298	Posted - 2015.02.13 22:07:00 - [26] - Quote hold that wrote: dag i was thinking the ar was near perfect Me 2...no **** that it is perfect Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 77	Posted - 2015.02.14 18:43:00 - [27] - Quote I'll go through my Skype logs. CCP Wolfman distinctly removed the slow-down effect a few builds ago despite my continual protests that it would just be a giant buff to movement speed, which is already CoD'd out. [/quote] I'm not saying the effect wasn't removed as part of a update. I recall the fuss made when it was. I'm saying there is a slightly less dramatic version of it that still exists. Last night one of my squad mates experienced it for himself. Apparently he had never seen it before. I want to blame latency but I have no idea how that would explain it. I haven't figured out how to trigger it but I typically loose a suit or two a match because of it. Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15631	Posted - 2015.02.14 19:38:00 - [28] - Quote That doesn't balance the AR. What it does do however, is remove the need to have great aiming skills since the target will move so slow that it won't matter, thus turning engagements involving the AR into a cookie cutter battle with the only factor determining who wins the gun-fight being who brings the right fitting. Aeon Amadi wrote: I'll go through my Skype logs. CCP Wolfman distinctly removed the slow-down effect a few builds ago despite my continual protests that it would just be a giant buff to movement speed, which is already CoD'd out. Have you played Call of Duty? Movement Speed in that game isn't anywhere near as fast as it is here unless you have the Lightweight perk. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6197	Posted - 2015.02.14 19:40:00 - [29] - Quote Lol no. That was annoying ON ANY WEAPON.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8715	Posted - 2015.02.14 20:38:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: That doesn't balance the AR. What it does do however, is remove the need to have great aiming skills since the target will move so slow that it won't matter, thus turning engagements involving the AR into a cookie cutter battle with the only factor determining who wins the gun-fight being who brings the right fitting. Aeon Amadi wrote: I'll go through my Skype logs. CCP Wolfman distinctly removed the slow-down effect a few builds ago despite my continual protests that it would just be a giant buff to movement speed, which is already CoD'd out. Have you played Call of Duty? Movement Speed in that game isn't anywhere near as fast as it is here unless you have the Lightweight perk. So your argument is that I'm wrong because Call of Duty does -not- have as movement speed as fast as Dust 514..? That's... Hilarious. And the whole thing about the uhh, "Cookie cutter battle with the only factor determining who wins the gun-fight being who brings the right fitting" oh, you mean how Chromosome was? When the fitting -actually mattered- as opposed to now where everyone can kill everyone regardless of the fitting? It's a min-max game that doesn't really matter. You're just adjusting your spreadsheet slightly to die just as fast as the next guy. There's no real tactics in the game and there's no thought process behind it. The only time fitting matters anymore is when it comes to EWAR, the rest is just feel-good fluff. EDIT: Gametrailers had a reviewed that nailed it on the head, "Numbers simply move up or down a bit, and your character ends up feeling like a modified spreadsheet rather than a powerful soldier. The benefits are so minor it just doesnGÇÖt feel like it matters which suit you select." Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*

Kierkegaard Soren Corrosive Synergy 713	Posted - 2015.02.14 21:19:00 - [31] - Quote I find that high RoF Fire weapons like the assault cr and HMG deal with strafing pretty well, but the AR fails miserably. Personally, I see it inability to push out it's potential damage in the magazine fast enough to be its main problem. Kt can't be the CQC king when two other weapons hit harder, quicker, and sometimes more accurately. I despised the slow down, and whilst I can see where you're coming from, I wouldn't want it back. I'd rather settle for higher alpha. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2494	Posted - 2015.02.14 22:23:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. For the AR only. Sounds profound doesn't it? Until you consider that it's a CQC weapon, where mobility matters a hell of a lot more than with weapons designed for longer ranges. You consider it's competition: The Shotgun which has high enough Alpha that it doesn't matter anyway, and the HMG which has a high enough DPS that it doesn't matter. So who really gets hurt by an Assault Rifle which does exactly what it did before everyone wigged out about it a few builds ago? The people it's designed to hurt: Anyone within Optimal Range. You can do a lot of things in designing a multiplayer FPS, but messing with player hands-on control of their character is just..... In WOW, sure a slowdown effect is great. In single player shooters it might be ok too, not sure. But here in our pvp-only game, it's contrary to the reason peeps are attracted to FPS in the first place: this is a skill contest. Anything that interferes with that, like say poor controls, sticky terrain, tacnet omniscience, proto contact grenades, explosive spam, low ttk, 'safety' inertia dampers, unearned sp/wp, etc., etc., etc......will be unwelcome. So, in brief, although slowdown would make the AR a fearsome weapon, as an addition to the gameplay experience of DUST....it sucks. PSN: RationalSpark
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8725	Posted - 2015.02.14 23:15:00 - [33] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. For the AR only. Sounds profound doesn't it? Until you consider that it's a CQC weapon, where mobility matters a hell of a lot more than with weapons designed for longer ranges. You consider it's competition: The Shotgun which has high enough Alpha that it doesn't matter anyway, and the HMG which has a high enough DPS that it doesn't matter. So who really gets hurt by an Assault Rifle which does exactly what it did before everyone wigged out about it a few builds ago? The people it's designed to hurt: Anyone within Optimal Range. You can do a lot of things in designing a multiplayer FPS, but messing with player hands-on control of their character is just..... In WOW, sure a slowdown effect is great. In single player shooters it might be ok too, not sure. But here in our pvp-only game, it's contrary to the reason peeps are attracted to FPS in the first place: this is a skill contest. Anything that interferes with that, like say poor controls, sticky terrain, tacnet omniscience, proto contact grenades, explosive spam, low ttk, 'safety' inertia dampers, unearned sp/wp, etc., etc., etc......will be unwelcome. So, in brief, although slowdown would make the AR a fearsome weapon, as an addition to the gameplay experience of DUST....it sucks. First logical argument I've seen in this entire thread. Thank you, Vrain. Now, that being said, if higher DPS is off the table (because no-one wants that, apparently), higher range is off the table, and slow-down effect is off the table, what can be done to make the Assault Rifle more powerful in it's environment and an actual competitor against the weapons in said environment? What sets it apart as unique apart from marginally higher DPS than other assault variants and how can we exploit that uniqueness? What can we do to make the Assault Rifle a genuine king in the CQC department that other rifles (at the very least) won't be able to match up to? Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
castba Rogue Instincts 762	Posted - 2015.02.14 23:24:00 - [34] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Probably wouldn't "call for help" anyway "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2070	Posted - 2015.02.14 23:33:00 - [35] - Quote castba wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Go die in a hole... multiple times.... With no weapon surrounded by dirty logi needles. Probably wouldn't "call for help" anyway I miss blue balling Who wants some?
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2494	Posted - 2015.02.14 23:38:00 - [36] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: No need to tweak range. No need to tweak damage. No need to increase Rate of Fire, reduce dispersion, change damage profiles, or anything of the sort. Nope, none of those. Bring back the bullet slow down effect. For the AR only. Sounds profound doesn't it? Until you consider that it's a CQC weapon, where mobility matters a hell of a lot more than with weapons designed for longer ranges. You consider it's competition: The Shotgun which has high enough Alpha that it doesn't matter anyway, and the HMG which has a high enough DPS that it doesn't matter. So who really gets hurt by an Assault Rifle which does exactly what it did before everyone wigged out about it a few builds ago? The people it's designed to hurt: Anyone within Optimal Range. You can do a lot of things in designing a multiplayer FPS, but messing with player hands-on control of their character is just..... In WOW, sure a slowdown effect is great. In single player shooters it might be ok too, not sure. But here in our pvp-only game, it's contrary to the reason peeps are attracted to FPS in the first place: this is a skill contest. Anything that interferes with that, like say poor controls, sticky terrain, tacnet omniscience, proto contact grenades, explosive spam, low ttk, 'safety' inertia dampers, unearned sp/wp, etc., etc., etc......will be unwelcome. So, in brief, although slowdown would make the AR a fearsome weapon, as an addition to the gameplay experience of DUST....it sucks. First logical argument I've seen in this entire thread. Thank you, Vrain. Now, that being said, if higher DPS is off the table (because no-one wants that, apparently), higher range is off the table, and slow-down effect is off the table, what can be done to make the Assault Rifle more powerful in it's environment and an actual competitor against the weapons in said environment? What sets it apart as unique apart from marginally higher DPS than other assault variants and how can we exploit that uniqueness? What can we do to make the Assault Rifle a genuine king in the CQC department that other rifles (at the very least) won't be able to match up to? What i'd want to see is a damage profile that varies non-linearly with range(i.e. falloff). Not talking dispersion here, talking damage reduction as a function of range-to-target. Think savagely high dps at close range but basically non-lethal at 55 m(just crude numbers). You'd still be able to put shots on target because it's not dispersion, but normally the best you'd ever get out of it is an assist. Calibrate the falloff curve so that peeps wouldn't really have to pay attention to ARs after about 40 m. On the other hand, if somebody decides to engage an AR up close it's because they're: A) a fool. B) a dancin' fool with hot moves. C) secure in the knowledge that they've got a well-tanked suit and can land headshots in CQC all day long. Under this model, when assaulting a point defended by heavies, the AR would be one of the go-to weapons. PSN: RationalSpark
AndyAndio 0uter.Heaven 139	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:33:00 - [37] - Quote The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- 2013 DUST 514's MVP of the Year.- Retired for Love of the Game
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2391	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:36:00 - [38] - Quote AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeas, it doesn't need to be needed, but not like this. Home at Last <3
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8730	Posted - 2015.02.15 03:04:00 - [39] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Give it time. I'm sure the community will renege on that too, just like they did with Movement Speed. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
AndyAndio 0uter.Heaven 141	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:58:00 - [40] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Make a valid point or dont respond at all, its easy to throw "what if" into any topic and make some kind of sense.- 2013 DUST 514's MVP of the Year.- Retired for Love of the Game

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2391	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:57:00 - [41] - Quote AndyAndio wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Make a valid point or dont respond at all, its easy to throw "what if" into any topic and make some kind of sense.- You don't make a valid point either. HP modules being popular is hardly indicative that HP is too high. It is only indicative that they are the best modules and that they provide the most tangible and immediate benefits to the users. Speed is still broken though. Strafing, in particular. This matrix bullet "dodging" isn't helping this game at all, and if anything, I'd say it's harming it, as player frustrations with it just keep mounting. I'd personally like a 20% across the board nerf to strafing, for everyone. That would put a Minscout at about the strafing speed of Caldari and Gallente Assaults, and the speed would fall all the way to the Amarr Sentinel, just like it does, but 20% less overall. Home at Last <3
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8741	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:59:00 - [42] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Make a valid point or dont respond at all, its easy to throw "what if" into any topic and make some kind of sense.- You don't make a valid point either. HP modules being popular is hardly indicative that HP is too high. It is only indicative that they are the best modules and that they provide the most tangible and immediate benefits to the users. Speed is still broken though. Strafing, in particular. This matrix bullet "dodging" isn't helping this game at all. I'd personally like a 20% across the board nerf to strafing, for everyone. Lol, the hilarity of this. When the movement speed was buffed exponentially back in 1.4/1.5 everyone loved it, I was the only guy who ever complained about it (and I can pull forum threads as proof) and literally everyone flipped their **. Almost two years later and now everyone's wanting the movement speed dropped again. You people don't know what the hell you want. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? Founder of AIV**
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2391	Posted - 2015.02.15 07:09:00 - [43] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Make a valid point or dont respond at all, its easy to throw "what if" into any topic and make some kind of sense.- You don't make a valid point either. HP modules being popular is hardly indicative that HP is too high. It is only indicative that they are the best modules and that they provide the most tangible and immediate benefits to the users. Speed is still broken though. Strafing, in particular. This matrix bullet "dodging" isn't helping this game at all. I'd personally like a 20% across the board nerf to strafing, for everyone. Lol, the hilarity of this. When the movement speed was buffed exponentially back in 1.4/1.5 everyone loved it, I was the only guy who ever complained about it (and I can pull forum threads as proof) and literally everyone flipped their ****. Almost two years later and now everyone's wanting the movement speed dropped again. You people don't know what the hell you want. I was actually pretty neutral about it back then, because it didn't actually manifest itself as a problem after the Scout buff and subsequent Assault buff, both of which were extremely favorable for speed based suits(which I consider to be everything faster than and including the Minassault). I didn't see over a year into the meta, sue me. I didn't know that wiggle strafing and bullet dodging would become so rampantly popular. But its not Movement Speed thats the problem. Its the strafe speed multiplier that is causing issues. iirc, the multiplier is .75%, and I'd personally like to see it bumped down to .60% Home at Last <3
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2494	Posted - 2015.02.15 13:52:00 - [44] - Quote The current suit meta is a result of the low and variable framerate we experience in DUST. If that is true then we may see high-strafe suits being less popular on the new maps where Rattati is claiming better performance. Also if the devs can get a few more frames out of the client we may see an impact on suit meta as framerate-strafing should get weaker and aiming should get stronger. An in-client fps meter would remove a lot of bullshit from these discussions. PSN: RationalSpark
AndyAndio 0uter.Heaven 143	Posted - 2015.02.15 16:37:00 - [45] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: AndyAndio wrote: The most used modules in this game are HP modules and you want to punish speed and movement, sounds legit, this game clearly needs more brick tanking.- If there were modules that increased strafe seed or base movement speed, HP modules would go the way of the disnosaur. Speed is broken right now, so yeah, it does need to be nerfed, but not like this. Make a valid point or dont respond at all, its easy to throw "what if" into any topic and make some kind of sense.- You don't make a valid point either. HP modules being popular is hardly indicative that HP is too high. It is only indicative that they are the best modules and that they provide the most tangible and immediate benefits to the users. Speed is still broken though. Strafing, in particular. This matrix bullet "dodging" isn't helping this game at all, and if anything, I'd say it's harming it, as player frustrations with it just keep mounting. I'd personally like a 20% across the board nerf to strafing, for everyone. That would put a Minscout at about the strafing speed of Caldari and Gallente Assaults, and the speed would fall all the way to the Amarr Sentinel, just like it does, but 20% less overall. First of all, i never said HP is too high, HP modules are not the best, they're easy mode when paired by a high DPS weapon, therefore why they're the most bought/used modules in the game. The amount of times i go scout vs scout in this game, kill them, and then they spawn in a heavy or an assault with 1000+ HP is huge. Speed isnt broken, hitboxes, framerate and performance are and by the way you complain about people going "Neo" on you, after playing this game for a long time, you're probably missing your shots and blaming it on the game. (you're not the first, dont feel bad) I got killed through a wall and a crate yesterday, you dont see me crying for nerfs of any kind. Nerfing any kind of movement in general is gonna make people to tank HP even more. Users are gonna stop using Ferro and Reactive plates and start using enhanced plates, the few ones who use kin cats, regs and damps are gonna start using plates too. 2013 DUST 514's MVP of the Year.- Retired for Love of the Game
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8766	Posted - 2015.02.16 01:37:00 - [46] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I was actually pretty neutral about it back then, because it didn't actually manifest itself as a problem after the Scout buff and subsequent Assault buff, both of which were extremely favorable for speed based suits(which I consider to be everything faster than and including the Minassault). I didn't see over a year into the meta, sue me. I didn't know that wiggle strafing and bullet dodging would become so rampantly popular. But its not Movement Speed thats the problem. Its the strafe speed multiplier that is causing issues. iirc, the multiplier is .75%, and I'd personally like to see it bumped down to .60% Smart player (anyone who's ever done PC) will tell you that strafing isn't even a part of the firefight because it's slower than forward/backward movement. Lot of Armor Tankers use a 'V' strafe, lot of Shield Tankers use a 'Circle Strafe' - neither of which are actually utilizing the reduced strafe speeds because, again, the forward/backward movement is just faster. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 5135	Posted - 2015.02.16 02:18:00 - [47] - Quote Oh. Oh oh.. I know a fix..... Double the projectile size of all Plasma weapons!!!! Think about it.


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