Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3629
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
To be honest, if Pilot suits were implemented and mandatory for closed cockpit vehicles we wouldn't need to have this discussion because it wouldn't matter wether you survived or not, a pilot suit out of his vehicle would be a dead man walking.
Since they are not, I suppose weighing in on this won't hurt, I believe the Pilot should die at 0/0, end of story, I tire of destroying tanks, dropships or LAV's where when the vehicle is clearly doomed/dead they jump out (often in a heavy suit, tanked to the nines) to blap you while you holding your AV weapon.
However Dropship passengers are a different story, passengers do not contribute to the dropship forcestrength (minus gunner posistions) and so should not be penalised by the pilots mistakes.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3629
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Galvatrona wrote:I am a full time tanker, up until 1.10 I didn't use or have a dropsuit higher than min logi level 1 just to use my blueprint suit to drive. All of my points up until this point were into tanks my guns operate better. I can fit better mods with full 3 proto guns having fitting opt 5 for all turrets. As soon as there was the ability to respect I did, I eliminated the turrets that I didn't favor and used the leftover points to outfit dropsuits. I only respected to be able to avoid the tank spam when the enemy team sees my name and pulls 4 tanks to come after me or the cheesy loaded dropships. I spend the rest of the match back at the redline with my blueprint covenant sniper rifle and wait out the match.
One thing to fix the vehicle death action is to put pilot suits into play for closed in driver seats. HAV and DS of all types excluding LAV as your exposed.
I have several items to go over for this implementation.
Comparing dropsuits they are all of different sizes and speeds with different size weapons.
How much space is there really in a drivers seat?
How does a heavy that I can out run by 2X get out of a vehicle just as fast as I do?
Now how does the heavy fit in the drivers seat with a huge weapon at the ready. I seem to run faster depending on which weapon I have in my hands (not a lot of proto dropsuits to use to test with yet). how does this not play into a delay in the exit/entrance of a vehicle.
If you can't operate a 1/2 million isk tank (cheaping out is your self imposed handicap or lack of skills into vehicle upgrades or fitting optimization) Why should you get a 2nd chance in another large investment. why not let heavys have an eject button for when they hit close to death they can bust out of their almost dead heavy suit into a scout suit just because it fits inside? seems pretty stupid right.
My tank has never had 5-10 seconds of safety time for me to bail at a wall of obstacle, DS pilots had the switch seat option now just pull up before death to survive the fall as your now on top of the ship and can aim away from it. does not work if the ships too weak and I 2 shot it before the driver can respond. This tanks name is "The Dropship Special" not saying whats in it but it offers no quarter to dropships for escape, only 2 ships so far have survived from 2 direct hits from this tank, I received mail afterwards asking me what I use. Now these people target me at the beginning of the match with multiple vehicles or massive AV teams.
In my tank if I decide that I am going to ride it out and not bail I die if it hits 0HP Everyone in the DS is taking the same risk passengers included, passengers see the health of the DS and can decide when to bail on their own if not TRAPPED AND DEAD with the ship.
Here is an example of DS not working properly match starts I move in and a DS trys to sneak up behind me. I let him get so far as he/she is going to approach soon to get range on their turrets. I spin asap and nail the DS into 0 HP, The pilot and passengers use the guns on me until they fail to respond at this point they know to bail and lock on with swarms or charge the forge they have. As the pilot approaches he/she uses the bank left then right technique to empty one turret and spin to empty the other passengers turret, this sideways flying allows the pilot to survive the drop as the ship is no longer plowing into him/her. The chance of survival is even higher if I don't time the shots to not hit the front of the ship to push it up. I feel in this situation they stayed in the ship until it was no longer useful then took advantage of the 0HP action to destroy me after I fairly destroyed their ride with them in it.
Pilot suits could have 1 high, 1 low, 1 equipment and a side arm only. I have yet to see a helicopter pilot or jet pilot have more than a side arm on their person unless its in a side compartment, which they don't have when they eject unless the return back to salvage it from their wreckage. Having 1 equipment slot allows access for the driver to still assist infantry with links ammo or carry proxy remotes to set up a "follow me trap" for blaster tanks. With the limitation of slots and weapons the pilot suit could use the level of your dropsuit upgrades to make it more effective/survivable. This allowing unlimited CPU and PG on the suit to fit 1 of what you have maxed out for each slot instead of needing to include a proto pilot suit or any type of extra skills. Aside of hav/ds skills that would allow the purchase of the basic pilot suit for a minimum isk cost. Another way to put the pilot suit into users dropsuit fitting is to have it as one of the blueprint starter suits that only unlocks only once you've spent points into hav or DS skills. Including a bandwidth of 16 would allow enough room for enough remotes to either seriously injure if not destroy another tank, or enough equipment to assist not support infantry more than the realm of the tanks main job. This suit would not need a fast run speed or a low profile as it should be only mainly used with vehicles, on the other side the suits weakness should allow a low precision to see almost any suit not dampened. These stats would make the suit nothing more than a suit to run away in, killing someone would not be easy but avoiding them would be. people trying to take advantage of the low precision are reduced to less to than a glass cannon holding by onto a side arm.
I have more info on this topic which I may add later.
Yes I feel overpowered in my tank but I deserve to be with no dropsuits and level 5 skills in vehicles and turret operations.
Modern ejector seats at least for the RAF contain a compartment for an SA80 standard issue assault rifle, the pilot doesn't carry a pistol normally.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3634
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Posted - 2015.02.20 11:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:[quote=Monkey MAC]To be honest, if Pilot suits were implemented and mandatory for closed cockpit vehicles we wouldn't need to have this discussion because it wouldn't matter wether you survived or not, a pilot suit out of his vehicle would be a dead man walking.
Since they are not, I suppose weighing in on this won't hurt, I believe the Pilot should die at 0/0, end of story, I tire of destroying tanks, dropships or LAV's where when the vehicle is clearly doomed/dead they jump out (often in a heavy suit, tanked to the nines) to blap you while you holding your AV weapon.
However Dropship passengers are a different story, passengers do not contribute to the dropship forcestrength (minus gunner posistions) and so should not be penalised by the pilots mistakes. I share this opinion as well.
Speaking as a turret-operator (NOT as a DS driver), I can't agree with the opinions that players' able to leap out of their Dropship before being scored as a "VEHICLE DESTRUCTION + KILL 50" (GǪface it, that IS what the underlying drooling issue is, isn't it)GǪ should be an issue at all. Leave the condition as it is right now---just leave it alone.
If the aim of Dust 514 is about players working to "hack/defend objectives", "team-help your side", and "win matches", then getting caught up in the addiction of "blowing up that player when she's AT the vehicle", instead of just valuing the elimination of the vehicle from the opposing sideGǪ. is a DEPARTURE from the purpose of the game.
If you destroy a vehicle or installation that a player is operating for her team, then you did RIGHT. THAT'S IMPORTANT towards helping your side win a match. True but if the operator survives the change in force strength for taking out that vehicle/installation is minimal, your contribution is worth less than your clone at most you have disabled a minor inconvenience, usually at the expense of 2-3 deaths and goodness know's how much ISK
The event where the player stays at the installation and dies, or steps out quickly enough to save herself, should remain a risky dice that she rolls and can screw up in a handful of ways---- but is ALMOST never an important influence in helping her side win the match. We aren't talking about installations because they explode as soon as they reach 0/0, dropships however spend about 4 seconds falling out of the sky first. Tanks set on fire long before they die giving their pilot a warning.
If she steps away from the blast and is able to kill you with a wrench that she threw from the driver's window, that should be the dice that you roll for not expecting an opponent to try to fight for survival---but it is ALMOST NEVER important towards helping her side win the match. Kills 10-15 people with dropship, looses dropship, kills another 5-10 people. If someone killing 25 people doesn't help towards winning the match, why do slayer roles even exsist?
In both encounters, only the use and destruction of the vehicle/installation is pivotal to winning a match or holding a hacked objective. The other stuff is just personal vanity. Incorrect, I personally have seen too many matches where vehicles are used as ablative armour, get out of dying dropship onto high ground to place uplinks, heavies that role up as close as possible in HAV's so when they get out they can assault a posistion, you name it will be done.
When I'm able to use a nearby Rail-Installation to destroy an enemy DS, and I see 1 x 50+ Kill appear after the DS destruction, I DON'T CARE. I want the DS cleared away so it can't prey on my teammates' heads while they are hacking a Null---if my team can't deal with one surviving "pilot" who escaped from the falling ship, then my team doesn't deserve the win a match. The removal of the VEHICLE is what I've been told is the Dust-play goal,GǪ craving the driver's death is just CoD withdrawal syndrome. (And I've seen too many players LOSING the match for their team, either because they DELAY finishing off the Installation until they can be sure the operator is still standing at it, or because they spent 4 extra minutes chasing after the survivor's scalp while their team needed their help elsewhere). And yet I have seen matches where 2 heavies and a logi jump out of a dying HAV to butcher their way through my entire team. It's not always as cut and dry as a COD withdrawal
In the well-meaning attempt to "respond to players' needs of improvement", be careful not to pander to narcissisms, like the ability to stick a RE on someone's behind as they pass by", or "automatically-lock the player in his burning car when I railgun the car", or paint my new Quafe-purple suit with froo-froo French green emeralds (GǪI'm sorry, but those are the words I felt I needed to use). Yet you should also be careful not to panda to those who never wish to die, Like "why can't I revive myself" or "stacked hives should improve healing" or "I want to be able to jump outmof the flaming wreck of my already disabled vehicle.
CLIP
You're entire post is revolved around the fact that an AVer's goal is solely tomdestroy the vehicle, bearing in mind the term "destroy" has been used in much contempt of the vehicle community, yet you then state that killing the pilot in no way shape or form contributes to any of the win conditions on which DUST is based. Of which both you and I know is a load of codswallop, otherwise no-one would ever bother killing people ever, continued . . . . .
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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