DUST Search - I found the reason why new players leave dust...

Mex-0 wrote:

TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:

Ironically, heavies probably have the lowest skill requirement and smallest efficiency gap from militia to prototype. I seriously doubt heavies are deterring new players anymore than them just being stuck in militia gear. One of the most effective newbie strategies is toting militi heavy forges or hmgs along with newbing it up with a heavy suit and a rail rifle.

You may not like heavies but that's just nonsense that heavies deter new players. If anything low meta level heavies generate tons of butthurt from proto assaults and proto scouts. They also generate tons of butthurt from people who don't think before they act... like walking into closed quarters with anything other than a close quarters weapon. If there's a heavy waiting around the corner with a hmg... you kind of deserve to die. That's the guns purpose. On the other hand, you can wreck heavies in long distance skirmishes if you have gun game. They leave cover and you murder them. They don't leave cover... flank them. They aren't going anywhere. Are they clown car-ing in a LAV? Anyone in a LAV is going to wreck you if you have 0 av support, so I consider that a moot point. LAV turrets alone can kill most players if caught in the open and the LAV driver knows what he's doing.

Edit: I say the efficiency gap is small because although proto heavies will have about 500-800 ehp more than a militia variant. The massive hitboxes on heavies make it highly unlikely that you will miss so realistically good players will down a proto heavy maybe 2 seconds after a militia heavy. Heavies are force multipliers like logis but like logis, are pretty easy to down if caught out of their element. The hitbox and slow moving aspect is also why commandos aren't considered godmode assaults. Because, being slow and easy to hit is pretty bad.

Getting ganked by a seemingly unkillable fatty with an instakill weapon doesn't make you want to quit dust?

You obviously were never a new player...

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Mex-0 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 352	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:40:00 - [61] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't see the problem with heavies. The breach AR tears right through them. Nothing ran people off more than Scout 514. Those were the darkest days of Dust. Or tank514. Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Ablerober Mass Defect Binding Energy 242	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:45:00 - [62] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Heavies. Played 3 matches of skirm, and in every single one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, there were heavies. I get that you like being a walking tank with a weapon that deals insane dps, but it ruins the game. And for those who protest that it 'takes skill', there's nothing skill about having 1000+ ehp and carrying a portable death machine. Yes, I know that they are part of the game, Yes, They aren't as OP as before, But GODDAMN ARE THEY AND THEIR BLACK AND YELLOW FRIENDS ANNOYING. /rant over Redline snipers? Tanks in Ambush? Cloaked scouts with shotguns? Protostomping? Scouts using RE's? Hmmmm.
Mex-0 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 352	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:47:00 - [63] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: Heavies bring balance in fighting proto faggots because STD lolfit heavy can take out proto ****** who reach 20/0 in pubs much easier than player with STD RR/SCR/AR fit.Heavies do jobs that other players can't do.Anyone who is ranting against heavies is frustrated because he can't protostomp pubs like he planed to. Ha as if... I can't even afford proto so don't try to make an excuse... Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 822	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:03:00 - [64] - Quote Ironically, heavies probably have the lowest skill requirement and smallest efficiency gap from militia to prototype. I seriously doubt heavies are deterring new players anymore than them just being stuck in militia gear. One of the most effective newbie strategies is toting militi heavy forges or hmgs along with newbing it up with a heavy suit and a rail rifle. You may not like heavies but that's just nonsense that heavies deter new players. If anything low meta level heavies generate tons of butthurt from proto assaults and proto scouts. They also generate tons of butthurt from people who don't think before they act... like walking into closed quarters with anything other than a close quarters weapon. If there's a heavy waiting around the corner with a hmg... you kind of deserve to die. That's the guns purpose. On the other hand, you can wreck heavies in long distance skirmishes if you have gun game. They leave cover and you murder them. They don't leave cover... flank them. They aren't going anywhere. Are they clown car-ing in a LAV? Anyone in a LAV is going to wreck you if you have 0 av support, so I consider that a moot point. LAV turrets alone can kill most players if caught in the open and the LAV driver knows what he's doing.
Ablerober Mass Defect Binding Energy 242	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:12:00 - [65] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't see the problem with heavies. The breach AR tears right through them. Nothing ran people off more than Scout 514. Those were the darkest days of Dust. An alt ran into you yesterday in Domination - you were using the very same weapon, very good battle and very close indeed I seem to recall. Love those matches.
Mex-0 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 352	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:38:00 - [66] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Ironically, heavies probably have the lowest skill requirement and smallest efficiency gap from militia to prototype. I seriously doubt heavies are deterring new players anymore than them just being stuck in militia gear. One of the most effective newbie strategies is toting militi heavy forges or hmgs along with newbing it up with a heavy suit and a rail rifle. You may not like heavies but that's just nonsense that heavies deter new players. If anything low meta level heavies generate tons of butthurt from proto assaults and proto scouts. They also generate tons of butthurt from people who don't think before they act... like walking into closed quarters with anything other than a close quarters weapon. If there's a heavy waiting around the corner with a hmg... you kind of deserve to die. That's the guns purpose. On the other hand, you can wreck heavies in long distance skirmishes if you have gun game. They leave cover and you murder them. They don't leave cover... flank them. They aren't going anywhere. Are they clown car-ing in a LAV? Anyone in a LAV is going to wreck you if you have 0 av support, so I consider that a moot point. LAV turrets alone can kill most players if caught in the open and the LAV driver knows what he's doing. Edit: I say the efficiency gap is small because although proto heavies will have about 500-800 ehp more than a militia variant. The massive hitboxes on heavies make it highly unlikely that you will miss so realistically good players will down a proto heavy maybe 2 seconds after a militia heavy. Heavies are force multipliers like logis but like logis, are pretty easy to down if caught out of their element. The hitbox and slow moving aspect is also why commandos aren't considered godmode assaults. Because, being slow and easy to hit is pretty bad. Getting ganked by a seemingly unkillable fatty with an instakill weapon doesn't make you want to quit dust? You obviously were never a new player... Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 140	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:20:00 - [67] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Heavies. Played 3 matches of skirm, and in every single one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, there were heavies. I get that you like being a walking tank with a weapon that deals insane dps, but it ruins the game. And for those who protest that it 'takes skill', there's nothing skill about having 1000+ ehp and carrying a portable death machine. Yes, I know that they are part of the game, Yes, They aren't as OP as before, But GODDAMN ARE THEY AND THEIR BLACK AND YELLOW FRIENDS ANNOYING. /rant over It is only for that reason a feel a mode solely for Militia suits, fittings, and vehicles should exist. The game mode could act as something besides the academy where people with base level gear could compete. Yes spending SP would increase passive skills but it wouldn't be as vicious as a noib going into an ambush with proto stompers.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2067	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:56:00 - [68] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Getting ganked by a seemingly unkillable fatty with an instakill weapon doesn't make you want to quit dust? You obviously were never a new player... Well when you're a new player you're pretty much getting ganked by seemingly unkillable players with instakill weapons regardless of the suit. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! [RYJC]
Pseudogenesis nos nothi 1618	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:22:00 - [69] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't see the problem with heavies. The breach AR tears right through them. Nothing ran people off more than Scout 514. Those were the darkest days of Dust. Finally! You're wrong! Lol, tank 514 and tac AR 514 were the darkest days by far! This man is absolutely correct. Scout 514 was bad but it wasn't even CLOSE to the darkest days of Dust. The 50-0 tanks, 4 shot kill TAC-ARs and unkillable laser beams of divine retribution pre-Uprising were much, much worse. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
neausea 1987 1.U.P 241	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:50:00 - [70] - Quote heavy suits are not difficult to defeat at all even if there are 16 of them the problem is crappy arse players with no skill or intelligence to beat them all, they always want to fight heads up on some im going to beat a 1,000 hp chaingun weilding monster face to face, lmao get the f outta here. what ccp needs to do is stop catering to scrubs and ask at the very least halfway decent players what they would like. SELF PROCLAIMED LORD OF THE DANCE AND MASTER OF THE FLANK AND SPANK (no cloak required) i strive or perfection.

Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 318	Posted - 2015.02.08 01:25:00 - [71] - Quote News Flash even advanced medium suit can stack about 1000eHP. I still take them out with my about 200eHP scout but unlike heavies those medium suits can jump. I remember earlier today a Caldari heavy using a light weapon had too much HP and couldnt jump on the pathway to walk to the roof haha. He was bait, he was target practice PUAHAHA. Sadly I only got a kill assist.... If stacking eHP had a higher movement penalty I would feel better. I killed a gal scout with over 600 armor. He came back killed me and thats how I knew he had so much eHP lolq ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Petrified Ancient Tree Expert Intervention Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.02.08 05:23:00 - [72] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Petrified Ancient Tree wrote: But against other Sentinels? How do you fare? In other words: is it an issue with the suit or that no one bothered to bring the counter to that suit? You say that like the average game doesn't have more than 5 heavies on each side. In case you were wondering, I generally stomp on them. They are easy(in relative terms) to counter, but cheap and low end heavy suits are way more effective than they need to be. I know for a fact that every game I have played has at least a couple of heavies. How does one determine whether or not cheap or low end heavies are more effective than they need to be? What metric is reasonable? There has to be a certain threshold where a Heavy is effective 1v1 against anything lower than it - it has to hit hard and take a pounding in order to counter the ponderously slow movement. If a low end or cheap heavy is not effective at that point, why would anyone think they are worth investing time skilling up to? Yes... CCP has received money from me in exchange for goods and services related to DUST 514
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 826	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:05:00 - [73] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Ironically, heavies probably have the lowest skill requirement and smallest efficiency gap from militia to prototype. I seriously doubt heavies are deterring new players anymore than them just being stuck in militia gear. One of the most effective newbie strategies is toting militi heavy forges or hmgs along with newbing it up with a heavy suit and a rail rifle. You may not like heavies but that's just nonsense that heavies deter new players. If anything low meta level heavies generate tons of butthurt from proto assaults and proto scouts. They also generate tons of butthurt from people who don't think before they act... like walking into closed quarters with anything other than a close quarters weapon. If there's a heavy waiting around the corner with a hmg... you kind of deserve to die. That's the guns purpose. On the other hand, you can wreck heavies in long distance skirmishes if you have gun game. They leave cover and you murder them. They don't leave cover... flank them. They aren't going anywhere. Are they clown car-ing in a LAV? Anyone in a LAV is going to wreck you if you have 0 av support, so I consider that a moot point. LAV turrets alone can kill most players if caught in the open and the LAV driver knows what he's doing. Edit: I say the efficiency gap is small because although proto heavies will have about 500-800 ehp more than a militia variant. The massive hitboxes on heavies make it highly unlikely that you will miss so realistically good players will down a proto heavy maybe 2 seconds after a militia heavy. Heavies are force multipliers like logis but like logis, are pretty easy to down if caught out of their element. The hitbox and slow moving aspect is also why commandos aren't considered godmode assaults. Because, being slow and easy to hit is pretty bad. Getting ganked by a seemingly unkillable fatty with an instakill weapon doesn't make you want to quit dust? You obviously were never a new player... Well I didn't start playing Dust until I think about 1.2 of Uprising. There were tons of proto everything running around back then. I I wanted to kill a slayer logi, I had to militia forge gun it, and they were smaller targets and faster moving then sentinels. HMG sentinels are forge gun fodder, always have been and probably always will be. For extra style points you can militia PLC them although that's obviously more difficult and dangerous. Hell when I started rail rifles didn't exist, which if you catch a fatty in the open from around 60-80 meters that's a dead fatty, even with a militia/std rail rifle. If the sentinel has a logi repping it, shoot the logi. If its hiding, that's why the CCP Gods created mass drivers. In my opinion, heavies are far less bullshit then for example scouts. Scouts are alpha kings that newbies won't see coming and have no realistic counter to other than pulling out a shotgun and praying they see them creeping up/10 m/s sprinting up on them soon enough to react. Not that I'm knocking scouts, they are the harassment class. The least helpful point defense (Aside from the fact that you can throw REs into the ground below null consoles, making them impervious to grenade clearing) but great for exposing flanks and spam capping outlying low defense null cannons in skirmish.
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1276	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:47:00 - [74] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't see the problem with heavies. The breach AR tears right through them. Nothing ran people off more than Scout 514. Those were the darkest days of Dust. Finally! You're wrong! Lol, tank 514 and tac AR 514 were the darkest days by far! This man is absolutely correct. Scout 514 was bad but it wasn't even CLOSE to the darkest days of Dust. The 50-0 tanks, 4 shot kill TAC-ARs and unkillable laser beams of divine retribution pre-Uprising were much, much worse. Tank 514 does take the cake as the darkest days, but I can't believe everyone has forgotten flaylock 514 already.. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
norttheantiv Negative-Feedback. 124	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:59:00 - [75] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't see the problem with heavies. The breach AR tears right through them. Nothing ran people off more than Scout 514. Those were the darkest days of Dust. Finally! You're wrong! Lol, tank 514 and tac AR 514 were the darkest days by far! This man is absolutely correct. Scout 514 was bad but it wasn't even CLOSE to the darkest days of Dust. The 50-0 tanks, 4 shot kill TAC-ARs and unkillable laser beams of divine retribution pre-Uprising were much, much worse. Tank 514 does take the cake as the darkest days, but I can't believe everyone has forgotten flaylock 514 already.. Flaylocks, contact 'nades and mass drivers in every PC. The horror.... People may have given out about the tac AR but it did take "some" skill to clear a point. The flaylock spam was just silly. I do remember seeing a team of NS or Saluki swarm an armor blaster tank with MDs which was amazing. Winner EU Squad Cup Go Go Power Rangers!
Vash Warren SMARTCREW Smart Deploy 115	Posted - 2015.03.06 14:05:00 - [76] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Heavies. Played 3 matches of skirm, and in every single one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, there were heavies. I get that you like being a walking tank with a weapon that deals insane dps, but it ruins the game. And for those who protest that it 'takes skill', there's nothing skill about having 1000+ ehp and carrying a portable death machine. Yes, I know that they are part of the game, Yes, They aren't as OP as before, But GODDAMN ARE THEY AND THEIR BLACK AND YELLOW FRIENDS ANNOYING. /rant over Hey I'm asian and I don't like heavies either so don't be racist. I'm asian... 666 illuminati confirmed... 666-660=6/2=3. 3 is the number valve does not like to use. Team Fortress 3 Confirmed! Heavy's are the the moving walls of one man that force everything else into retreat. Show some love for Logi Bros.
syzygiet General Tso's Alliance 24	Posted - 2015.03.06 15:03:00 - [77] - Quote Scouts are way worse than heavies. Most of the time you dont know they are coming because of their low scan profile and speed, combined with their high alpha weapons (SG, NK) you dont know what killed you until the death screen. At least with the high suit profile of a heavies most suits can pick them up on their passives.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 3507	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:17:00 - [78] - Quote New Players leave because this game has no new player tutorial worth a damn and the academy is just too short, but mainly the former issue. You can't have a complicated game and leave so many of the mechanics "for granted." Normally games have a tutorial or introduce new mechanics/concepts a few at a time, DUST 514 just beats you with a wiffle bat from the very start and hopes you get it. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1614	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:27:00 - [79] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Ironically, heavies probably have the lowest skill requirement and smallest efficiency gap from militia to prototype. I seriously doubt heavies are deterring new players anymore than them just being stuck in militia gear. One of the most effective newbie strategies is toting militi heavy forges or hmgs along with newbing it up with a heavy suit and a rail rifle. You may not like heavies but that's just nonsense that heavies deter new players. If anything low meta level heavies generate tons of butthurt from proto assaults and proto scouts. They also generate tons of butthurt from people who don't think before they act... like walking into closed quarters with anything other than a close quarters weapon. If there's a heavy waiting around the corner with a hmg... you kind of deserve to die. That's the guns purpose. On the other hand, you can wreck heavies in long distance skirmishes if you have gun game. They leave cover and you murder them. They don't leave cover... flank them. They aren't going anywhere. Are they clown car-ing in a LAV? Anyone in a LAV is going to wreck you if you have 0 av support, so I consider that a moot point. LAV turrets alone can kill most players if caught in the open and the LAV driver knows what he's doing. Edit: I say the efficiency gap is small because although proto heavies will have about 500-800 ehp more than a militia variant. The massive hitboxes on heavies make it highly unlikely that you will miss so realistically good players will down a proto heavy maybe 2 seconds after a militia heavy. Heavies are force multipliers like logis but like logis, are pretty easy to down if caught out of their element. The hitbox and slow moving aspect is also why commandos aren't considered godmode assaults. Because, being slow and easy to hit is pretty bad. Getting ganked by a seemingly unkillable fatty with an instakill weapon doesn't make you want to quit dust? You obviously were never a new player... Actually. HOWDIDTHATTASTE did this to me (everyone) when i first played this game. Id run ar against him. Die. dumbfire swarm. Die. snipe..mutha fucka rolled up in a lav. Die. 3 guys with dumbfire swarms. Success! This game is not made for the lazy, weak, or stupid. you have to want it. and want it bad. Hey Soldner, why are you such a cynic? Ever read the dust forums? You'll know why.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 1023	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:35:00 - [80] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Heavies. Played 3 matches of skirm, and in every single one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, there were heavies. I get that you like being a walking tank with a weapon that deals insane dps, but it ruins the game. And for those who protest that it 'takes skill', there's nothing skill about having 1000+ ehp and carrying a portable death machine. Yes, I know that they are part of the game, Yes, They aren't as OP as before, But GODDAMN ARE THEY AND THEIR BLACK AND YELLOW FRIENDS ANNOYING. /rant over NOPE Newbies leaving because this neverending grind is not fun for them anymore. "Sebiestor Hetzer"

4lbert Wesker King and Queens 158	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:55:00 - [81] - Quote I used to be a new player,I was stomped by heavies very often but i didn't left the game you know why?Because I became heavy and returned the favor.I had very hard time because this is the first FPS game i played with a controller ever. This is not CoD,you can't kill heavies or even Scouts with one sniper bullet to leg.You need to use brain here. Public skirmish = camping games
Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:57:00 - [82] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Actually. HOWDIDTHATTASTE did this to me (everyone) when i first played this game. Id run ar against him. Die. dumbfire swarm. Die. snipe..mutha fucka rolled up in a lav. Die. 3 guys with dumbfire swarms. Success! This game is not made for the lazy, weak, or stupid. you have to want it. and want it bad. Oh, my friend, this is so true. Nevertheless, better tutorials, better weapon descriptions to grasp each weapons purpose, best engagement range and optimals as well as better starter fits would be highly appreciated. Started some alts recently to try out militia fits w/o skills and see if the could compete outside academy: they can, you only need the right suit, the right weapon and tactics, like: GåÆ MLT minmatar HMG+Bolt Pistol heavy with MLT kinCat or armor reps GåÆ MLT armor stacked A-CR and BAR +Br-SMG medium suit with drop uplink for decent extra WP GåÆ MLT Shotgun, 2 speed KinCats 1 dampener, 1 shield extender gallente light suit these are all suits that got my barely 700-800k lifetime SP alts into and through matches with a decent ISK payout and >1 KDR. But, starter fits as they are today are not competitive outside of academy. They teach a race's fighting style at the cost of providing a working one . This has to change. Noobs nowadays do not have the time to learn differentiate the good, working fits from the bad ones while getting face-proto-smashed. Give them good go-to-fits and then let them experiment from there on.
CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 408	Posted - 2015.03.06 17:10:00 - [83] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Heavies. Played 3 matches of skirm, and in every single one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, there were heavies. I get that you like being a walking tank with a weapon that deals insane dps, but it ruins the game. And for those who protest that it 'takes skill', there's nothing skill about having 1000+ ehp and carrying a portable death machine. Yes, I know that they are part of the game, Yes, They aren't as OP as before, But GODDAMN ARE THEY AND THEIR BLACK AND YELLOW FRIENDS ANNOYING. /rant over Duders--if you're referring to skirm matches (not dommies, but those also get a pass for having at least one objective), heavies are sorta a must for a balanced, roll-filled team to hold a point without struggling. And if you're near cover, a 1-on-1 with a heavy sans logi is usually a cake walk.
Binx Klepto 22	Posted - 2015.03.06 17:27:00 - [84] - Quote yeah it's the heavies falt. it has nothing to do with players calculating out how long they actually have to play this game to get good gear. it has nothing to do with that. nobody wants instant gratification.... Fellow Flaylock Believer


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