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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8209
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, here's a video of a fit I threw together to test this out. The video is 25+ minutes long, showing a full match from start to finish, so if you want to just skip directly into the actual gameplay go to 4:17. Albeit, lot of militia gear and low-level players in that match so the results are... sorta skewed...
I have another thread giving feedback about how the Cloak is -ridiculously- hard to fit on anything that isn't a Scout (I had to use a standard cloaking device in this video because of the high resource costs) but I wanted to get a sanity check on some questions I had and see where the rest of the community stood on it.
Should the Cloaking Device be scout specific? Or should the Cloaking Device be rebalanced and the Scout bonuses rebalanced to provide more opportunities for fits like the one shown in this video?
What do you guys think of the fitting shown in the video and how it performed? Could it have been made better in some way (nb4 'run scout')? What would you do differently and why?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7337
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cloaks are dumb since they only work against the weak minded and people that have neglected their eye doctor.
I still laugh every time I see a scout racing directly at me with a cloak on. It doesn't make them invisible it makes them translucent with a bluish tint.
I think there should be another type of cloak. One that only works if you are standing still. It boosts your dampening but completely eliminates your passive scans and temporarily knocks out your tacnet. It should cost less CPU % PG than the original cloak. Anymovement will automatically break the cloak and the recharge timer is long.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8212
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Cloaks are dumb since they only work against the weak minded and people that have neglected their eye doctor.
I still laugh every time I see a scout racing directly at me with a cloak on. It doesn't make them invisible it makes them translucent with a bluish tint.
I think there should be another type of cloak. One that only works if you are standing still. It boosts your dampening but completely eliminates your passive scans and temporarily knocks out your tacnet. It should cost less CPU % PG than the original cloak. Anymovement will automatically break the cloak and the recharge timer is long.
What would it be called? Camper Cloak Device? AFK Cloak Device?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9401
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Cloaks are dumb since they only work against the weak minded and people that have neglected their eye doctor.
I still laugh every time I see a scout racing directly at me with a cloak on. It doesn't make them invisible it makes them translucent with a bluish tint.
I think there should be another type of cloak. One that only works if you are standing still. It boosts your dampening but completely eliminates your passive scans and temporarily knocks out your tacnet. It should cost less CPU % PG than the original cloak. Anymovement will automatically break the cloak and the recharge timer is long. What would it be called? Camper Cloak Device? AFK Cloak Device? It would be something that implies that it is both a camper and an AFK player.
Call it, the Caldari State Cloak.
Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!
~Democracy will win!
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7337
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Cloaks are dumb since they only work against the weak minded and people that have neglected their eye doctor.
I still laugh every time I see a scout racing directly at me with a cloak on. It doesn't make them invisible it makes them translucent with a bluish tint.
I think there should be another type of cloak. One that only works if you are standing still. It boosts your dampening but completely eliminates your passive scans and temporarily knocks out your tacnet. It should cost less CPU % PG than the original cloak. Anymovement will automatically break the cloak and the recharge timer is long. What would it be called? Camper Cloak Device? AFK Cloak Device? It would be something that implies that it is both a camper and an AFK player. Call it, the Caldari State Cloak. Yes, please!
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
3091
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 05:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just my personal biased opinion but I think that CCP got cloaks right the first time (Aka the way they work in EVE).
Now transferring this to an FPS game is a little more difficult but not at all something that would be impossible.
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7341
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Posted - 2015.02.02 06:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Just my personal biased opinion but I think that CCP got cloaks right the first time (Aka the way they work in EVE).
Now transferring this to an FPS game is a little more difficult but not at all something that would be impossible. Crysis.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
14816
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Posted - 2015.02.02 07:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
The cloak is a wonderful tool even against people with eyes. It's harder to spot a translucent target vs a fully solid one.
During fights people aren't as focused on random blue tints in the background, and so they miss them. Just that charging straight at someone at the speed of sound while the area is completely clear will get you nothing but tears lol
Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan!
Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!
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Kira Lannister
Ancient Exiles.
2597
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Posted - 2015.02.02 20:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
You've just inspired me to pursue this bad idea.
"The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire."
Book of Exiles 1:3
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iKILLu osborne
Dead Man's Game RUST415
638
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Posted - 2015.02.02 21:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
i once cloaked a commando, actually pretty funny when red dot stops and stares like "dafuk?!?" then you shotgun his face lol
if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8244
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Posted - 2015.02.02 21:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:You've just inspired me to pursue this bad idea.
It's fun, if you can get passed the stupid fitting costs.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
7585
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Posted - 2015.02.02 21:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
In terms of who should be able to use it, I like where it is. It is not scout specific, but is more easily accessible to a scout, provided it has level 5 racial skill.
That being said, I am seeing more and more scouts giving it up in its current state precisely because it is fairly visible in most lighting situations, and has significant unintended draw backs. One being the cloak delay applying anytime the cloak is equipped regardless of whether or not you are actively cloaked, and the second is a glitch where if you sprint too soon after the weapon switch, you end up in a delay, switching back to the cloak, then having to go through the delay again just to get to the weapon.
Considering a situation in which you are seen while cloaked, trying to be evasive, and having to deal with 2 weapon delays all while being seen and shot at, and most likely having and HP disadvantage (particularly in a scout), I would think the use of it on anything other than a scout would be too big a sacrifice. Its already too big a sacrifice for most scouts.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
231
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Posted - 2015.02.02 22:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:In terms of who should be able to use it, I like where it is. It is not scout specific, but is more easily accessible to a scout, provided it has level 5 racial skill.
That being said, I am seeing more and more scouts giving it up in its current state precisely because it is fairly visible in most lighting situations, and has significant unintended draw backs. One being the cloak delay applying anytime the cloak is equipped regardless of whether or not you are actively cloaked, and the second is a glitch where if you sprint too soon after the weapon switch, you end up in a delay, switching back to the cloak, then having to go through the delay again just to get to the weapon.
Considering a situation in which you are seen while cloaked, trying to be evasive, and having to deal with 2 weapon delays all while being seen and shot at, and most likely having and HP disadvantage (particularly in a scout), I would think the use of it on anything other than a scout would be too big a sacrifice. Its already too big a sacrifice for most scouts.
Exactly what I think Moreover you're scan-blind when using a cloak, which makes you run in very dangerous situations from which you can't get out because of what was said above. It's the combination of those 2 that makes good scouts using a cloak only to get through a wide open area and then don't touch it anymore |
Varoth Drac
State of Purgatory
557
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Posted - 2015.02.02 22:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Very interesting video. I liked the commentary.
Regarding the fit, I like it, but I would strongly recommend a kinetic catalyser over the cardiac regulator. You hardly ever got low on stamina, whereas there were lots of times extra speed would have been useful. Flanking manouvers, escapes, just getting from A to B before the cloak runs out. Also, do you really need a prototype flux grenade? I never see the point of going above standard.
About the cloak. I think it's debabtable how useful it was for you. There were relatively few examples where an enemy would have spotted you had you not been cloaked. Also there were several times where people spotted you even though you were cloaked. I'm not saying it was useless, but I think you would have been able to play almost the same way without it.
Your video is more of a demonstration of the effectiveness of EWAR mods on assaults, as well as a great spotlight on effective use of the tac AR combined with stealth gameplay.
The fact you did so well I think can be more attributed to a mixture of good play using your EWAR advantages, and your poor opponents, rather than the cloak itself.
As for cloaked assaults, I'm not sure about it. I can make a very similar fit using a scout. The scout fit I think is a bit better, as it has an advance cloak, more speed, a compact hive and a lower profile, but slightly less hp. What's interesting though is my scout fit really isn't much better at all. Nowhere near as much difference as I thought, although I could probably do better if I wasn't trying to copy the assault fit.
I think with the way assaults are at the moment, cloaks should keep their fitting costs/scout bonus. Scouts need cloaks as their "special thing" that differentiates them. The "Black Ops Assault" you have shown here is really the same as a scout. It's just a scout that focuses on ranged weapons and hp more than speed and cqc weapons. There's no need go down this route as this is what we have scouts for. I guess having an extra equipment slot differentiates scouts, but then if you remove the cloak fitting barrier you could just have cloaked logi's instead. Considering how close your assault fit is to my scout, without the high fitting cost of a cloak the assault would be far superior to the scout.
I think the main thing you have shown is that fitting your assault suit with damps and precision allows for some excellent flanking and the ability to out manouver your oppenents using superior intel. Definately something more assaults should try.
Regarding cloaks in general. The sprinting after decloak problem really needs fixing, very annoying. Also, I feel with the state they are in at the moment they could do with granting better invisibility. The scan reduction makes you use them tactically, and the decloak delay stops the easy ganking. But they just aren't quite good enough at one of their major uses, which is wide flanking through open ground. It's just too easy to be spotted by experienced players.
One final thing: you seem to have missed out on one of the cloak fields major advantages. You can hack installations whilst cloaked, providing relatively safe hacking. Not so good for objectives, but prety good nontheless. |
Savage Mangler
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
282
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Posted - 2015.02.02 23:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
I use a cloak on my triple myofib melee amarr assault. It's hilarious how many people you can actually sneak up on, like bitchslapping a shotgun scout in the face.
Free your mind, break your shackles.....
In other words....stop being a gorram metasheeple.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8259
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Posted - 2015.02.03 09:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Very interesting video. I liked the commentary.
Regarding the fit, I like it, but I would strongly recommend a kinetic catalyser over the cardiac regulator. You hardly ever got low on stamina, whereas there were lots of times extra speed would have been useful. Flanking manouvers, escapes, just getting from A to B before the cloak runs out. Also, do you really need a prototype flux grenade? I never see the point of going above standard.
I never got low on stamina because I had 110% more from the Cardiac Regulator xD, also the fitting cost on Kinetic Catalyzers is a bit too high for my tastes. As far as the Flux Grenades, I like the prototypes because the blast radius is a lot more forgiving; although I could tone that down and fit a kinetic catalyzer. Maybe.
Varoth Drac wrote:
About the cloak. I think it's debabtable how useful it was for you. There were relatively few examples where an enemy would have spotted you had you not been cloaked. Also there were several times where people spotted you even though you were cloaked. I'm not saying it was useless, but I think you would have been able to play almost the same way without it.
Your video is more of a demonstration of the effectiveness of EWAR mods on assaults, as well as a great spotlight on effective use of the tac AR combined with stealth gameplay.
The fact you did so well I think can be more attributed to a mixture of good play using your EWAR advantages, and your poor opponents, rather than the cloak itself.
Perhaps, but I think the cloaking device gives weight to Judge Rhadamanthus' theory on the 'toupee fallacy' when it comes to cloaking devices. It's easy to say they're bad when you can never account for the times you didn't see them.
Varoth Drac wrote: As for cloaked assaults, I'm not sure about it. I can make a very similar fit using a scout. The scout fit I think is a bit better, as it has an advance cloak, more speed, a compact hive and a lower profile, but slightly less hp. What's interesting though is my scout fit really isn't much better at all. Nowhere near as much difference as I thought, although I could probably do better if I wasn't trying to copy the assault fit.
I think with the way assaults are at the moment, cloaks should keep their fitting costs/scout bonus. Scouts need cloaks as their "special thing" that differentiates them. The "Black Ops Assault" you have shown here is really the same as a scout. It's just a scout that focuses on ranged weapons and hp more than speed and cqc weapons. There's no need go down this route as this is what we have scouts for. I guess having an extra equipment slot differentiates scouts, but then if you remove the cloak fitting barrier you could just have cloaked logi's instead. Considering how close your assault fit is to my scout, without the high fitting cost of a cloak the assault would be far superior to the scout.
Interesting thing about that is that there is been some lengthy discussion about having two different Logi's - a Support Logi with emphasis on equipment and a Combat Logi. Which, if you get right down to it, a cloaked Combat Logi would be an interesting turn of events. Just as well there is a strong support for post-level 5 content in the forms of new roles on the battlefield. The definition of that is a little.... vague... but I'd gladly sacrifice the terrible dispersion reduction on the Gal Assault for a better bonus to cloaking devices if it were made into a cross-specialization role/suit that was separate of a Scout/Assault.
I think this video kinda shows the viability of that role, if it were ever a thing.
Varoth Drac wrote: I think the main thing you have shown is that fitting your assault suit with damps and precision allows for some excellent flanking and the ability to out manouver your oppenents using superior intel. Definately something more assaults should try.
Regarding cloaks in general. The sprinting after decloak problem really needs fixing, very annoying. Also, I feel with the state they are in at the moment they could do with granting better invisibility. The scan reduction makes you use them tactically, and the decloak delay stops the easy ganking. But they just aren't quite good enough at one of their major uses, which is wide flanking through open ground. It's just too easy to be spotted by experienced players.
One final thing: you seem to have missed out on one of the cloak fields major advantages. You can hack installations whilst cloaked, providing relatively safe hacking. Not so good for objectives, but prety good nontheless.
IMO, the invisibility factor shouldn't be touched considering what was mentioned earlier about the 'toupee fallacy'. It's hard to give unbias, good feedback on something you legitimately can't see at times. What I would -totally- be down for though is a an 'Active Profile Dampener' which would be like a Cloaking Device only without any invisibility factor at all, but instead a higher bonus to profile reduction for a limited time.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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