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Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1905
   |
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Base DPS = 500
------------- 1 damage modifier - - 2 damage modifiers - - 3 damage modifiers
Basic 515 (3%) 528 (5.6%) 537 (7.3%)
Enhanced 525 (5%) 546 (9.3%) 560 (12.2%)
Complex 535 (7%) 565 (13%) 585 (17%)
3 complex mods do not increase your damage by 17%. those are percentages and percentages are multiplied, not added. 3 complex mods increase the dps by ~18% ( 1,07 * 1,060837 * 1,039942 - 1 )
conclusion, 585 dps is also wrong, just like the rest of the numbers cause you have to multiply. 500 * 1.07 * 1.060837 * 1.039942 => 590,21678902789 => 590 is your dps (assuming 500 base) with 3 complex damage mods.
basic math ftw
there is also a big flaw in your assumptions. against AR and SCR shield extenders are alot less effective. they are also worth alot less against weaponry that outright kill you or deplete your shields in one hit. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1905
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I rounded down. It doesn't matter, because the scenarios are still identical.
EDIT: Yep, ran it through spreadsheet, identical results.
There you go. It changes nothing. Care to comment on the subject?
Wait, what did you do to my table? o_O
you didnt, if you had rounded down your result would be 584 dps for 3 complex mods  you simply added 7 + 6,0837 + 3,9942 together  |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1905
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jack McReady wrote:
there is also a big flaw in your assumptions. against AR and SCR shield extenders are alot less effective. they are also worth alot less against weaponry that outright kill you or deplete your shields in one hit.
The exact weapon you're using is irrelevant. This is about the general idea. If you want to quibble over exact weapon DPSes, the AR does not do 500 base DPS. Jack McReady wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I rounded down. It doesn't matter, because the scenarios are still identical.
EDIT: Yep, ran it through spreadsheet, identical results.
There you go. It changes nothing. Care to comment on the subject?
Wait, what did you do to my table? o_O you didnt, if you had rounded down your result would be 584 dps for 3 complex mods you simply added 7 + 6,0837 + 3,9942 together Eh? No, at 17% it's 585. 500 x 1.17 is 585. In your own words, 'basic math ftw'.
you said you rounded, there is no way your result would be 585 if you rounded since rounded the result would be 584. you added percantages thus you got 585, you failed at basic math. (unless you cant round properly )
you simply added the percantages and got 17%. 17% is not rounded. 585 is not correct, 17% is not correct, "rounded" is your poor excuse but unfortunately rounded it would still end with a different value.
basic math ftw. your excuses wont help you out.
also I can again repeat this again:
there is also a big flaw in your assumptions, it does not take into account damage profile. against AR and SCR shield extenders are alot less effective. a combat rifle shooting at a armor heavy target will get a huge boost from a complex damage because profile bonus, proficiency bonus and damage bonus from module is multiplied together. they are also worth alot less against weaponry that outright kill you or deplete your shields in one hit. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1907
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jack McReady wrote:[
you said you rounded, there is no way your result would be 585 if you rounded since rounded the result would be 584. you added percantages thus you got 585, you failed at basic math. No? A 17% increase to 500 yields 585. If you don't understand this, let me go over this really slowly for you. 500 divided by 100 is 1%, and equals 5. A 17% increase is 17 times 1%. 17 x 1 = 17, yes? 17 x 5 = 85. Thus, a 17% increase is 585. Not 584. I suggest before declaring someone else is wrong and that they haven't learnt basic maths, you learn basic arithmetic yourself.
are you that stupid? you said you rounded. 17% is not rounded, it is a number taken out of your stupid head because you added instead of multiplied.
learn to math then come back. 17% is wrong, 585 is wrong. your whole assumption is wrong because you havent factored in damage profile or OHK. a complex damage mod can easily increase your weapons damage by 9% or more against something it is strong against like a combat rifle against armor. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1911
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 09:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:I think he (Jack) is trying to claim that damage mods stack in their multiplication.
what I am saying is that 17% is wrong, nothing else.
beside that his analysis is flawed cause the base of his analysis is a random dps number taken out of the air compared to HP. this is only one aspect out of many based on some random numbers, which in my book is far away from a "mathematical" analysis.
the problem here is that there are weapons that OHK, wipe your shields in one hit or are simply strong against shields thus adding a shield extender over more damage is doing pretty much nothing if your base shields arent great to begin with.
his analysis also does not factor in damage profiles. everything is multiplied and thus a single complex damage mod can easily net you 9% or more damage over your base dps if you are hitting against the "element" which your weapon is strong against allowing you to finish your target faster.
a damage mod also increases your damage per clip making it more likely to finish off your target.
there are also plenty of ways to ensure that you get the first strike with profile damps. gank your target and do not receive damage. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1920
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 14:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
if you are going to get OHK or not, in the meantime you could aswell have dealt the maxium possible damage.
I am not only talking about flux. shotguns will remove your shields instantly and get deep into your armor in one hit, nova knifes OHK, PLC splash can (depending on suit) remove your shields instantly extender or not, SCR headshots, SCR charged shots, ScrP headshots etc... heck, even a core locus can remove all your shields in a single hit against alot of suits. if you survive one of those initially you die in the next second anyway thus you might aswell do as much damage as possible in the meantime.
and the anti shield weapons can, with max proficiency, increase your damage against shields by 26,5% (AR) or 38% (SCR). notice how in the case of the SCR the total bonus is 47,66% with a single complex mod, a net increase of 9,66% from your base dps.
there are cases where extenders are worth in my eyes if you can fit them:
a) you are on a low health suit (scout / logi)
b) suits the playstyle (hmg heavy needs hp)
c) you are against a weapon that is weak against shields (but the difference is marginal in this case, if you are in assault you might aswell get atleast a single damage mod as it will serve you well overall) |
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